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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 14, 2024 18:28:17 GMT -5
The CAA's honor roll has three levels, the lowest requiring a 3.0 minimum GPA in the fall semester. Counting all three levels, 55 Spiders made the fall 2023 honor roll, (Two with a GPA of 4.0 were recognized in the high honors with distinction category. Nine with a GPA between 3.7 and 4.0 were in the high honors category. Forty-four with a GPA between 3.0 and 3.7 were honors awardees.)
While comparing the two leagues is a bit like apples and oranges, the PL awarded honors to athletes with a GPA of 3.2 and above in the fall semester. 35 members of the HC football team were named to the PL honor roll. HC did four better than Colgate.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 14, 2024 18:40:32 GMT -5
CAA statement on Richmond's departure. "Below is a statement from CAA Football Commissioner Joe D’Antonio on the University of Richmond’s decision to depart the conference at the conclusion of the 2024 season. “This morning, I was informed of the University of Richmond’s decision to depart the CAA Football conference at the conclusion of the 2024 season. The CAA has long been regarded as one of the premier conferences in FCS football, having sent at least three teams to the playoffs in 16 of the past 18 years. A CAA team has advanced to the semifinals of the playoffs 10 times in the last 11 seasons, and even more impressively, seven different conference schools have reached the semifinals over that 11-year period. CAA Football is committed to competing at the highest level and continuing that success. CAA Football will continue to make decisions that move the conference forward by creating both a competitive and sustainable model.” The Patriot League announcement. No comment on the difference in the two announcements.
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Post by DFW HOYA on May 14, 2024 18:49:21 GMT -5
[Regarding your last point, Columbia was once so bad in football that the IL adjusted the floors and bands for its football team. This allowed Columbia to recruit players who would otherwise not have been admitted. After 3-4 years, Columbia was still as bad as before, so the adjustment ended. Am I to infer that the PL then shouldn't adjust Georgetown's bands because it wouldn't matter? How many losing seasons must be registered before the league office sees a problem? The Hoyas are at 22 of 23, and counting. This why PL football can be maddening below the Mendoza Line that is Bucknell and Georgetown: there is little hope among the fan bases for any substantive change.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on May 14, 2024 18:57:11 GMT -5
[Regarding your last point, Columbia was once so bad in football that the IL adjusted the floors and bands for its football team. This allowed Columbia to recruit players who would otherwise not have been admitted. After 3-4 years, Columbia was still as bad as before, so the adjustment ended. Am I to infer that the PL then shouldn't adjust Georgetown's bands because it wouldn't matter? How many losing seasons must be registered before the league office sees a problem? The Hoyas are at 22 of 23, and counting. This why PL football can be maddening below the Mendoza Line that is Bucknell and Georgetown: there is little hope among the fan bases for any substantive change. Maybe it’s time to look in the mirror. These two schools don’t have the institutional support or care compared to the other five (now six) schools.
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Post by DFW HOYA on May 14, 2024 19:04:06 GMT -5
Maybe it’s time to look in the mirror. These two schools don’t have the institutional support or care compared to the other five (now six) schools. Georgetown has all the institutional support they are going to get for a school with 62 scholarships across 15 men's teams. If they didn't have support, Georgetown football would be sitting alongside Seton Hall and Xavier. That said, UR is good for the league.
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Post by alum on May 14, 2024 19:10:22 GMT -5
Wow. Those are phenomenal stats for Richmond. Brutal for the non athlete to get into a school like that. I tip my cap to any senior who's attending Richmond with those stats. Burying the lead: My daughter will be attending Richmond in the Fall so it will be a war starting in 2025 in this household. Great school. Good for your daughter.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on May 14, 2024 19:10:58 GMT -5
Maybe it’s time to look in the mirror. These two schools don’t have the institutional support or care compared to the other five (now six) schools. Georgetown has all the institutional support they are going to get for a school with 62 scholarships across 15 men's teams. If they didn't have support, Georgetown football would be sitting alongside Seton Hall and Xavier. Lot of words to say they don’t have the same support as their league peers.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 14, 2024 19:15:35 GMT -5
From a post on the W&M forum.
Bob Black: "I'm the “Voice of the Spiders” and Director of Broadcast & News Content, and a voice synonymous with University of Richmond "
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Post by hchoops on May 14, 2024 19:19:44 GMT -5
questions Whom do we play in the last game of the season ? Fordham ? Will GTown play Richmond ? Bucknell-Colgate ?
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Post by hcpride on May 14, 2024 19:25:56 GMT -5
Maybe it’s time to look in the mirror. These two schools don’t have the institutional support or care compared to the other five (now six) schools. Georgetown has all the institutional support they are going to get for a school with 62 scholarships across 15 men's teams. If they didn't have support, Georgetown football would be sitting alongside Seton Hall and Xavier. That said, UR is good for the league. If Georgetown admin doesn’t support football with athletic schollies they are not going to win much in the schollie PL. As we have seen. And this should not be a surprise. Of course there are reasons why Georgetown football doesn’t get the institutional support it needs to succeed in PL football but that is a separate issue.
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Post by football44 on May 14, 2024 19:37:12 GMT -5
Wow. Those are phenomenal stats for Richmond. Brutal for the non athlete to get into a school like that. I tip my cap to any senior who's attending Richmond with those stats. Burying the lead: My daughter will be attending Richmond in the Fall so it will be a war starting in 2025 in this household. Good thing she takes after her mother.
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Post by cruskater31 on May 14, 2024 19:52:32 GMT -5
I have been waiting for a Sader crushing of the Spiders one of these days so I could sing "By May the 10th, Richmond had fell It's a time I remember, oh so well."
Looks like the "Night they Drove Old Dixie Down" will be a conference game. Love the campus and stadium. Now to get the Tribe and Cats on board
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Post by midwestsader05 on May 14, 2024 19:54:56 GMT -5
Georgetown's APR for men's basketball is low because (nearly) everyone transferred out under Patrick Ewing. It's not a measurement of GPA's. And, of course, it means nothing to this discussion. Georgetown has had one winning season since joining the Patriot League and is a combined 19-91 (.172) in league play overall to teams not named Bucknell. It's not about derelict coaching, academic suspensions, S&C or even prohibitively difficult non-conference schedules: it's a function of talent. The highest AI in the league does not allow it to recruit competitive talent, particularly in skill positions, to compete. Since HC went to full scholarships it is 8-0 against Georgetown, winning games at Fitton by an average of 26 points per game. Is this competitive? That doesn't change if Georgetown gives a second team all-county running back a scholarship instead of financial aid, it changes when it's allowed to recruit a kid from DeMatha or Bergen Catholic that doesn't have a 1300 SAT but will still graduate on time, the same kid that Fordham, Lehigh, and Lafayette can recruit without penalty. Until then, nothing changes. Why can't the AI be a league wide calculation? Regarding your last point, Columbia was once so bad in football that the IL adjusted the floors and bands for its football team. This allowed Columbia to recruit players who would otherwise not have been admitted. After 3-4 years, Columbia was still as bad as before, so the adjustment ended. I went to this site: toptieradmissions.com/resources/college-calculator/It is an AI calculator. I entered a SAT verbal score of 575, and a SAT match score of 550. I entered an unweighted GPA of 3.2 (on a 4.0 scale). The calculator generated my AI score as 179, 11 points higher than the PL floor of 168. I then lowered the math score to 500, and the verbal score to 535. The AI score fell to 170, STILL above the PL floor. There are posters on this board cheering the return of standardized tests in admissions., based on it being the best predictor of academic success in college. I suspect some of them are hoping HC follows suit. I won't speak for them but I don't think Rougeau would be happy admitting dozens of athletes with composite SAT scores of 1025 -1075. Again there’s some confusion here. If a 168 AI is the floor, how many football players can be admitted at the relevant PL school with that score to achieve the necessary average? The answer is very few. I for one don’t think standardized testing is or has ever been a great marker for success. I would lend more credence to other parts of a student’s application / resume. Back to the point at hand, Richmond has far more players on their roster with AI’s coming out of HS in the 168-172 range right now than the PL. I’m sure this has been worked out but I don’t know the solution yet. I’m assuming the middle ground, some relief for Richmond but some AI standard will exist. And this matters for recruiting. Since I’m likely one of the few that has been through this process - I had 4 schools that used the AI recruiting me late in the cycle (2 Ivy and 2 PL). As it came crunch time for OVs 1 (Princeton) told me that my AI was too low at a position where they didn’t have a need to admit from that part of the AI band. I took OVs to the other 3. With the AI, there is a premium on recruiting kids that can help lift the average, so if there are 2 players fairly close on the board, the one player that can help lift the class average often moves up the board.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 14, 2024 19:55:37 GMT -5
If Villanova joins (in 2026 or 2027?) as Bob Black ^^^(who works for the Univ. of Richmond) hinted, then (IMO) Georgetown has a hard choice: either money for some merit scollies, or drop down to the Pioneer League. When a school spent more on men's basketball last year than HC did on its entire athletic program, that's a hoops-centric school. And its in a hoop-centric conference. And with the possible emergence of two national super-conferences in football, it would not surprise me in the least that a basketball-centric conference then slides down to the mid-majors. Again IMO, the media broadcast revenue is simply not going to be there for a basketball-centric conference.
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Post by midwestsader05 on May 14, 2024 20:00:49 GMT -5
The CAA's honor roll has three levels, the lowest requiring a 3.0 minimum GPA in the fall semester. Counting all three levels, 55 Spiders made the fall 2023 honor roll, (Two with a GPA of 4.0 were recognized in the high honors with distinction category. Nine with a GPA between 3.7 and 4.0 were in the high honors category. Forty-four with a GPA between 3.0 and 3.7 were honors awardees.) While comparing the two leagues is a bit like apples and oranges, the PL awarded honors to athletes with a GPA of 3.2 and above in the fall semester. 35 members of the HC football team were named to the PL honor roll. HC did four better than Colgate. PP, you really seem to be grasping at anything to make it seem like Richmond or the PL will not have to amend anything regarding AI standards for Richmond. 55 players at 3.0 or better is great for Richmond, but what about the other 50-60 players? I GUARANTEE that cohort consists of many skill position guys that could not have been admitted to most PL programs out of HS or as college transfers. And as far as the 3.0 v 3.2, that probably moves HC to ~55-60 as well if the PL honor roll was a 3.0 minimum. Tons of guys (looks at self) sat or sit in that 3.0 - 3.2 GPA range. Again, this has all been thought through by all stakeholders involved. We are just pontificating till we know what the resolution will be.
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Post by hartattack on May 14, 2024 20:25:37 GMT -5
Weird fact: Apparently Richmond has been a member of the Patriot League in women’s golf and hosted the Patriot League women’s golf championship in 2023. Weird facts aside, I’m very excited about Richmond joining the league. A strong football program, a strong academic profile and a great southern city that has long been moving on from its Confederate past. Current U of R Associate Athletics Director for Compliance (and former Taunton, Mass., City Councilor and Bucknell QB) Ryan Colton was HC’s Assistant AD for Compliance for a time in the 2010s. richmondspiders.com/staff-directory/ryan-colton/295
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Post by nycrusader2010 on May 14, 2024 20:30:13 GMT -5
CAA statement on Richmond's departure. "Below is a statement from CAA Football Commissioner Joe D’Antonio on the University of Richmond’s decision to depart the conference at the conclusion of the 2024 season. “This morning, I was informed of the University of Richmond’s decision to depart the CAA Football conference at the conclusion of the 2024 season. The CAA has long been regarded as one of the premier conferences in FCS football, having sent at least three teams to the playoffs in 16 of the past 18 years. A CAA team has advanced to the semifinals of the playoffs 10 times in the last 11 seasons, and even more impressively, seven different conference schools have reached the semifinals over that 11-year period. CAA Football is committed to competing at the highest level and continuing that success. CAA Football will continue to make decisions that move the conference forward by creating both a competitive and sustainable model.” It's like he is saying we got abandoned because we are too fabulous. The last sentence implies the CAA will continue making decisions by opening emails to discover a school has left the league. Obviously the CAA watered itself down to where it was not sustainable. To me, Richmond was attracted to the PL because it hasn't watered itself down with unfettered expansion or mergers and is sustainable because it has stable, quality members. Now let's keep it that way. Even though speculating about new alignments is great fun, to me Villanova is the only other school that appears appropriate for PL football membership at this time. Good points. The CAA "watered itself down" because it had to make moves on the all-sports front to backfill a number of huge athletic programs that have left over the last decade -- Old Dominion, George Mason, VCU, James Madison and now Delaware (Georgia State technically too but they were a nothing-burger when they were in the CAA). Richmond is a football affiliate and wasn't happy that their league no longer resembles the Yankee Conference/A-10/CAA group of cohorts they've known and loved. I do think Villanova is next now. Surprised they weren't the first to make the move to be honest. Richmond was more than a little bit of a surprise.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on May 14, 2024 20:35:49 GMT -5
questions Whom do we play in the last game of the season ? Fordham ? Will GTown play Richmond ? Bucknell-Colgate ? My guess is that Richmond will continue to play William & Mary, Lehigh will continue to play Lafayette and the rest of us will be stuck with the annoying rotation that we've had for almost 25 years now. If we add Villanova, you'd get: W&M-Richmond (non-conference) Georgetown-Villanova Lehigh-Lafayette HC-Fordham Colgate-Bucknell Wow -- legit that could be the best rivalry week in all of FCS.
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Post by hchoops on May 14, 2024 20:49:49 GMT -5
I hope you are wrong about Richmond-W&M. Would the CAA or the PL allow a non conference game to be the final game ? Richmond coming I to a new confemce should not dictate the schedule, esp to the detriment of the rest of the teams.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on May 14, 2024 20:52:21 GMT -5
I hope you are wrong about Richmond-W&M. Would the CAA or the PL allow a non conference game to be the final game ? Richmond coming I to a new conference should not dictate the schedule, esp to the detriment of the rest of the teams. Richmond-W&M isn't just any end-of-season rivalry game. It probably has more history than any at the FCS level outside of Harvard-Yale, Lehigh-Lafayette and VMI-Citadel.
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Post by hchoops on May 14, 2024 20:56:54 GMT -5
I hope you are wrong about Richmond-W&M. Would the CAA or the PL allow a non conference game to be the final game ? Richmond coming I to a new conference should not dictate the schedule, esp to the detriment of the rest of the teams. Richmond-W&M isn't just any end-of-season rivalry game. It probably has more history than any at the FCS level outside of Harvard-Yale, Lehigh-Lafayette and VMI-Citadel. Richmond had to sacrifice something when changing conference. They can still play the game, just not as the last one.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 14, 2024 21:00:22 GMT -5
Regarding your last point, Columbia was once so bad in football that the IL adjusted the floors and bands for its football team. This allowed Columbia to recruit players who would otherwise not have been admitted. After 3-4 years, Columbia was still as bad as before, so the adjustment ended. I went to this site: toptieradmissions.com/resources/college-calculator/It is an AI calculator. I entered a SAT verbal score of 575, and a SAT match score of 550. I entered an unweighted GPA of 3.2 (on a 4.0 scale). The calculator generated my AI score as 179, 11 points higher than the PL floor of 168. I then lowered the math score to 500, and the verbal score to 535. The AI score fell to 170, STILL above the PL floor. There are posters on this board cheering the return of standardized tests in admissions., based on it being the best predictor of academic success in college. I suspect some of them are hoping HC follows suit. I won't speak for them but I don't think Rougeau would be happy admitting dozens of athletes with composite SAT scores of 1025 -1075. Again there’s some confusion here. If 168 AI is the floor, how many football players can be admitted at the relevant PL school with that score to achieve the necessary average? The answer is very few. I for one don’t think standardized testing is or has ever been a great market for success or rather I would lend more credence to other part’s of a student’s application / resume. Back to the point at hand, Richmond has far more players on their roster with AI’s in the 168-172 range right now than the PL. I’m sure this has been worked out but I don’t know the solution yet. I’m assuming the middle ground, some relief for Richmond but some AI standard will exist. And this matters for recruiting. Since I’m likely one of the few that has been through this process - I had 4 schools that used the AI recruiting me late in the cycle (2 Ivy and 2 PL). As it came crunch time for OVs 1 (Princeton) told me that my AI was too low at a position where they didn’t have a need to admit from that part of the AI band. I took OVs to the other 3. With the AI, there is a premium on recruiting kids that can help lift the average, so if there are 2 players fairly close on the board, the one player that can help lift the class average often moves up the board. I think the IL bands have disappeared, but I don't know for sure. I am fairly certain they've already disappeared in the PL, if they ever truly existed. What has remained is the floor and apparently the AI average of all recruited athletes being within one standard deviation of the school-wide AI. Richmond's school-wide AI is not that different from Colgate's. .Georgetown's school-wide AI is higher than Colgate's. In the IL at least, schools do borrow the AI scores from teams whose athletes have an average AI less than one standard deviation below the school-wide AI, and 'lend' these scores to teams whose team-wide average AI score is below the one standard deviation. There is a demographic collapse underway. See the headline in yesterdays WSJ. The peak year for U.S. births was 2007, with 4.32 million. (This is the class of 2025.) In 2023, the number of births was 3.59 million (about 17 percent fewer than in 2007.) This will be the future class of 2044. And it will get worse. The total fertility rate in the U.S. in 2023 was 1.62, and dropping steadily (Total fertility rates measure the number of live births that a female has during her reproductive years. You need a total fertility rate of 2.1 to replace an existing population (not factoring in migration.) The total fertility rate in 'Catholic' Italy is 1.24 and the rural country-side is being de-populated. See this Italian villa for sale for130,000 euros, that nobody apparently wants to buy. www.abruzzoruralproperty.com/italian-villas/item/1392-incredible-lake-view-with-panoramic-terrace-and-land-in-guardialfieraAnd men are choosing to pass on attending four year colleges. From Pew Research Group (December 2023: “Most of the decline is due to fewer young men pursuing college. About 1 million fewer young men are in college but only 0.2 million fewer young women. As a result, men make up 44% of young college students today, down from 47% in 2011, according to newly released U.S. Census Bureau data. “This shift is driven entirely by the falling share of men who are students at four-year colleges. Today, men represent only 42% of students ages 18 to 24 at four-year schools, down from 47% in 2011." And then there is enrollment at Catholic schools. Nationally, total enrollment decreased by 25 percent between 2007-08 and 2023-24, most of it in New England and the Mideast. (Catholic education association's geographical groupings.) IMO, I think Rougeau has about ten years to position HC as a school that seeks applicants nationally. (The effects of the demographic decline is already being experienced in Maine and Vermont, and the decline in the fertility rate is sharpest in New England and Oregon). He also needs to boost financial aid significantly, and improve the school's academic reputation. Otherwise by 2043, it will likely be a regional college, with a diminished academic reputation.
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Post by mm67 on May 14, 2024 21:02:57 GMT -5
I hope you are wrong about Richmond-W&M. Would the CAA or the PL allow a non conference game to be the final game ? Richmond coming I to a new conference should not dictate the schedule, esp to the detriment of the rest of the teams. Richmond-W&M isn't just any end-of-season rivalry game. It probably has more history than any at the FCS level outside of Harvard-Yale, Lehigh-Lafayette and VMI-Citadel. Not FCS but to this day I truly miss the annual HC-BC rivalry game. Approaching 80 next year and it still hurts.
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Post by cmo on May 14, 2024 21:04:14 GMT -5
I hope you are wrong about Richmond-W&M. Would the CAA or the PL allow a non conference game to be the final game ? Richmond coming I to a new confemce should not dictate the schedule, esp to the detriment of the rest of the teams. Maybe it will be a conference game
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Post by gks on May 14, 2024 21:07:49 GMT -5
Still stunned.
Random thoughts after plowing thru honor roll posts....
->Richmond coming is a kick in the a** to the league members. Richmond is a consistently solid program which will always be near the top of the league standings. ->Richmond has a lot of selling to do to their fan base. Due to PL's inept marketing of itself many in the VA capital probably think the PL is still non-scholarship ->I think you'll see the AI silently vanish into the night. It's been an unnecessary anchor. ->Hopefully what I read is correct and non-medical redshirts are now standard operating procedure. ->If I'm the northern CAA schools I immediately form a new league. ->If I'm the PL I give Georgetown three years to show a systematic change which allows them to be competitive. If not see you later.
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