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Post by Sons of Vaval on May 28, 2024 20:40:22 GMT -5
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Post by hchoops on May 28, 2024 20:44:22 GMT -5
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Post by WorcesterGray on May 28, 2024 20:56:21 GMT -5
Gibson's baseball-ref page. Of particular interest, his averages per 162 games, several of which (e.g.,HR, OPS, OPS+, BB, TB) are Ruthian
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Post by nycrusader2010 on May 28, 2024 21:09:35 GMT -5
Just checked his BR page. Never realized he died at age 35.
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Post by alum on May 29, 2024 6:47:41 GMT -5
I knew that the Negro League seasons were short (because they made more money barnstorming) but I didn't recall that they were only 60 plus or minus games per year.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on May 29, 2024 8:27:37 GMT -5
Yes, you’re right. BA, OPS, and Slugging he’s now the leader. |
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Post by rgs318 on May 29, 2024 8:43:02 GMT -5
Was it, do you think, a political decision to not include home runs?
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Post by Tom on May 29, 2024 9:03:17 GMT -5
Was it, do you think, a political decision to not include home runs? I think they are including home runs, but only ones that happened in Negro League games. As noted above, the official seasons were pretty short. Exhibition games aren't counted towards totals. Ted Williams' home run at HC isn't one of his 521 I don't think it was a political decision as much as a practical consistent one. How good are the records for barnstorming trips? Were all the barnstorming exhibition games played against other Negro or Major league players or were some against the all stars from the local industrial league ? |
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Post by rgs318 on May 29, 2024 9:09:43 GMT -5
Thanks for that explanation. It makes sense. I am glad the decision was not political.
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Post by WCHC Sports on May 29, 2024 13:51:54 GMT -5
How strange. This does not repair any damage done due to segregation. Sure, Negro League players were excluded from playing in MLB (and by Babe Ruth's own admission, the talent levels in the Negro Leagues were pretty good), but MLB players were not there to compete against Negro League players either. Who knows if Ruth would have hit 900 or 400 if players integration happened. We can surmise what is likely, but the integration didn't happen. Putting the stats on par is just not applicable. Why not bring in Japan NPL, or KBO, or European ball, or the Cape League, etc. etc. etc. MLB stats are (or I guess, "were") MLB stats. Whether they let everybody play or nobody play.
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Post by timholycross on May 30, 2024 9:28:57 GMT -5
My only complaint is/will be if they start touting Negro League player x or y as the "last player to hit .400".
Bullcrap with so many fewer games in a season. It's still Ted.
By the way, hope the news about Josh Gibson has made its way to Ty Cobb in the great beyond; the man wasn't noted for being a pioneer in race relations, IIRC.
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Post by WCHC Sports on May 30, 2024 10:03:00 GMT -5
Right. Integration would have made MLB more competitive, but I imagine it would have made the Negro Leagues much more competitive. Meaning Gibson may not have had the same success over a longer season and with the opponents MLB could offer. There's no way to know for sure, that's why I'd argue keeping the stats distinct would have been most straightforward.
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Post by alum on May 30, 2024 10:26:59 GMT -5
My only complaint is/will be if they start touting Negro League player x or y as the "last player to hit .400". Bullcrap with so many fewer games in a season. It's still Ted. By the way, hope the news about Josh Gibson has made its way to Ty Cobb in the great beyond; the man wasn't noted for being a pioneer in race relations, IIRC. We need someone to calcuate the highest batting averages for any sixty nine game stretch in a single season. I am assuming that Baseball Reference can generate this information. My youngest daughter, not a sports fan at all but a devoted follower of all sorts of news and social media, called me last night to tell me that Ty Cobb was rolling over in his grave.  |
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Post by mm67 on May 30, 2024 11:39:14 GMT -5
All I know is this. Negro League players such as the great Jackie, Larry,Willie, Newcomb, Monte, Campy,
Hammerin' Hank Thompson(I was a Giants fan.) and others more than held their own in MLB. Pre '47 MLB records are suspect because only some of the best & not all the best were on the field together.
What's past is past but I believe MLB is trying to set the record straight to at least give those African-American Negro League players their due. We are still trying to deal with the fallout from the "good old days." And, may God continue to Bless America. Peace.
PS '47 with 42s entry into MLB marked the beginning of the end of the Negro League.
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Post by Chu Chu on May 30, 2024 12:06:54 GMT -5
All I know is this. Negro League players such as the great Jackie, Larry,Willie, Newcomb, Monte, Campy, Hammerin' Hank Thompson(I was a Giants fan.) and others more than held their own. Pre '47 MLB records are suspect because only some of the best & not all the best were on the field together. What's past is past but I believe MLB is trying to set the record straight to at least give those African-American Negro League players their due. We are still trying to deal with the fallout from the "good old days." And, may God continue to Bless America. Peace. PS '47 with 42s entry into MLB marked the beginning of the end of the Negro League. Well said, mm67! "Pre '47 MLB records are suspect because only some of the best & not all the best were on the field together. What's past is past but I believe MLB is trying to set the record straight to at least give those African-American Negro League players their due." As a thought experiment, look at what has happened in football and basketball after they were integrated, and try to imagine each sport without the black players. The inclusion of black players has immeasurably improved all of our professional sports. The pioneers of the Negro leagues helped make that possible through their excellence. |
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on May 30, 2024 12:25:39 GMT -5
52 players who had played Negro League ball up to 1950 later played MLB. An additional 32 men who played in the Negro Leagues after 1950 later played MLB including a guy named Hank Aaron….
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Post by nycrusader2010 on May 30, 2024 12:42:43 GMT -5
52 players who had played Negro League ball up to 1950 later played MLB. An additional 32 men who played in the Negro Leagues after 1950 later played MLB including a guy named Hank Aaron…. Too bad Aaron didn't hit 8 home runs for a qualifying NL team. |
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