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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 15, 2024 19:29:56 GMT -5
Northeastern's middle 50 (25-75th percentiles) SAT composite score for the class of 2027 was 280 points higher than HC's middle 50 SAT composite. Are you suggesting that one way for HC to become more selective is to reduce enrollment? I find that almost impossible to believe. 280 points is a massive difference Northeastern, for the class enrolling in the fall of 2023: 1490-1540 Middle 50% Range SAT Score of Admitted Students Holy Cross, for the class enrolling in the fall of 2023. 1300-1450 Middle 50% Range SAT Score of Admitted Students Holy Cross's 75th percentile is lower than Northeastern's 25th percentile.. There were 96,600 applicants for Northeastern's Class of 2027. For the class of 2028, the number of applicants was 98,373.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jul 15, 2024 20:38:09 GMT -5
Any info for enrolled students?
Just checked on princeton review- data there suggest that 75% of NU students scored in the top 1% of national SAT scores. Again I find that hard to believe
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Post by hcnj on Jul 15, 2024 23:44:28 GMT -5
Any info for enrolled students? Just checked on princeton review- data there suggest that 75% of NU students scored in the top 1% of national SAT scores. Again I find that hard to believe sounds impossible.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 16, 2024 6:00:24 GMT -5
Any info for enrolled students? Just checked on princeton review- data there suggest that 75% of NU students scored in the top 1% of national SAT scores. Again I find that hard to believe Enrolling students at Northeastern These values, i.e., the middle 50, are taken from the Common Data Set. The Common Data Set is the enrolling class. For Northeastern, for the class of 2027: 96,620 applied 5,459 admitted 2,738 enrolled Middle 50 percentiles, enrolling students SAT composite: 1460-1530 ACT composite: 33 -35 For SAT verbal, enrolling students 82.1 percent had a score between 700 and 800 For SAT math, enrolling students 92.6 percent had a score between 700 and 800 59.8 percent of the enrolling class were women 24.6 percent of the enrolling class was from Massachusetts
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Post by mm67 on Jul 16, 2024 7:25:41 GMT -5
Are those numbers real? I know Northeastern offers career related programs such as physical therapists with extensive long term internship in the field. Rehabbed in NY with three Northeastern students interning physical therapists for my time at the facility. I believe they were quickly employed after graduation. It's sort of a half college, half vocational school. This does make the school extremely attractive to those looking for a school which will send them off to work with a degree/certificate in their chosen field. Additionally, I did read they had a president who was aggressively revamping the campus and the school's course offerings.However, this does not explain the off the chart SAT/HS school rank numbers. Maybe NU is creating a new paradigm for American higher education. We have always been a pragmatic nation. I don't know.
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Post by Tom on Jul 16, 2024 7:33:34 GMT -5
I believe Northeastern is a 5 year school that goes all year and that internships are part of the curriculum (which is why it takes 5 years)
I am not sure how the internships work for athletes, but there have to be some athlete friendly employers out there who will make accommodations,
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 16, 2024 8:46:58 GMT -5
From a Boston Globe article last October. www.bostonglobe.com/2023/10/09/metro/housing-northeastern-first-years/The 2,750 number for the Boston campus referenced above is the cohort included in the Common Data Set. Since 2013, the City of Boston has required annual reporting of enrollment by colleges and universities. There is a further breakdown by undergraduate/graduate, and housed on-campus / off-campus in institutional / non-institutional housing. The pdf file can be found here. www.boston.gov/sites/default/files/file/2023/06/Student%20Housing%20Report%2C%202022.pdfIn 2022, Northeastern housed 48 percent of its undergraduates in university housing, BU 65 percent, and BC 74 percent. The stat that I found most interesting in this City of Boston report was enrollment at St. John's Seminary, the archdiocesan seminary. From a total enrollment of 192 in 2013 to 72 in 2022!
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Post by CHC8485 on Jul 16, 2024 9:56:14 GMT -5
I may have found at least a partial answer/explanation ... Both Northeastern and Holy Cross are Test Optional for admission. Dig into the CDS a little and there is a section on submission of SAT or ACT scores.
| Percent Submitting SAT | Number SAT Submitted | Percent Submitting ACT | Number ACT Submitted | Northeastern | 27% | 754 | 8% | 227 | Holy Cross | 35 % | 288 | 19% | 155 |
Both percentages represent percentage of enrolled students. However, with respect to admissions, Northeastern says test scores are VERY IMPORTANT. Holy Cross says they are CONSIDERED. Northeastern's importance likely means more of the lower scoring applicants (and by lower I mean a 1200 -1300 combined score) do not submit. Then, once you have scores for say 40% of your applicants, it's pretty easy to "game this system" by simply admitting only the highest scoring SAT applicants from those who do submit scores. So if you make a policy decision to only admit the highest 30% of applicants who submit scores, you drive your average score even higher. Not saying Northeastern is doing this, and Holy Cross could be doing this as well, but there was a pretty extensive article posed on the board recently describing how, for the last 20 years or so, Northeastern has been laser focussed on improving it's position in the rankings. Combined with the importance of the scores in admissions, it becomes a bit easier to see the reported numbers as plausible.
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Post by mm67 on Jul 16, 2024 10:30:02 GMT -5
Years ago I read that the president of Northeastern was intensely dedicated to improving its USNWR ranking and he was taking steps to do so. I don't know if there is even a hint go gaming the system, Let's face it USNWR controls much of higher ed & also hospital administration & policies, too.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Jul 16, 2024 10:39:26 GMT -5
Northeastern was open about the fact it was gaming the USNWR ratings, and it worked. It's a stunning turnaround. It wasn't that many years ago that Northeastern was considered a middle of the pack working class school that was pretty easy to get into. The Co-op program was its big selling point. My oldest son went there freshman year before transferring (not because he disliked it). The campus doesn't blow you away, but they have put up some impressive buildings in recent years. It's a true urban campus. If there is a lesson for HC it's that you can no longer sit back and wait for hordes of brilliant students to apply based on your perceived wonderfulness (maybe HYP can). Fortunately, under PVR's leadership it seems that HC has finally realized how proactive and even aggressive you need to be to attract top students.
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Post by CHC8485 on Jul 16, 2024 11:27:10 GMT -5
The article I was referencing was posted by hc1996 back in May in the Richmond to the PL thread in the football forum. I was not necessarily being critical of Northeastern, but pointing out the reality of how their application numbers and SAT scores could be boosted - like Holy Cross' - by making test scores optional. And how they might further be boosted by admissions emphasis on scores in admissions and decision making with scores in mind. It's a 2014 piece and yes, Northeastern was openly focussed on taking actions to improve their US News scores. Here's the link for those who may have missed it in May. www.bostonmagazine.com/news/2014/08/26/how-northeastern-gamed-the-college-rankings/
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 16, 2024 12:39:19 GMT -5
IMO, Dartmouth let the cat out of the bag, so to speak. Before recently restoring the mandatory standardized test requirements, Dartmouth had reviewed the applications of rejected students who had asked that their test scores not be considered. Dartmouth then looked at the test scores of these individuals and found that some applicants would have been admitted if they had not asked that their scores be ignored.
How was Dartmouth able to learn of these test scores?
Applicants to competitive schools, including those applying to HC, use the Common App. Applicants using the Common App self-report their standardized test scores. They can also check a box that asks that their scores not be considered when their application is reviewed. (After a student is admitted, he/she is asked to submit the official test scores. So there is every incentive to be honest in your self-reporting.)
Based on Dartmouth's review, I now believe schools tabulate the scores of all enrolling students, even for those enrollees who asked that their scores not be considered. The percentages that are included in the Common Data Set (CDS) standardized test tables are simply the percentages who asked that their tests scores be considered.
^^^ This also explains Holy Cross' tabulation of tests scores for (IIRC) the class of 2025. About seven percent of that class had composite SAT standardized test scores below 1,000, with some having composite scores in the 800s. (This was a class that was COVID-disrupted in their high school schooling.) Why would anyone apply to HC and ask that their 860 composite test score be considered at a school that was test optional?
For a long while, I entertained the thought that someone at HC had accidentally / deliberately entered erroneous data into the CDS. But, HC never made an effort to revise the CDS to correct the erroneous data. Then after Dartmouth's review, it dawned on me that the CDS composite scores are for the entirety of the enrolling class, not just those who asked that their scores be considered.
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Post by Tom on Jul 16, 2024 14:00:29 GMT -5
^^^ This also explains Holy Cross' tabulation of tests scores for (IIRC) the class of 2025. About seven percent of that class had composite SAT standardized test scores below 1,000, with some having composite scores in the 800s. (This was a class that was COVID-disrupted in their high school schooling.) Wow - I am stunned that anyone with scores like that is at HC
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Post by mm67 on Jul 16, 2024 16:11:07 GMT -5
It sounds like a lot of bs to me. And so what does all this manipulating of numbers have to do with the quality of the school? Higher Ed is another cultural institution with little integrity. Northeastern & other similar types (which I guess is the whole lot) stink. Ratings & rankings, "Ivy" this, "Ivy" that (except the true Ivies) is a bunch of hooey. A HS college adviser was unimpressed with what he considered the reputation based scores published by commercial rankings. He oft repeated, loosely quoted,"The best school is the school that works best for the individual student." And yet some get their drawers tied up in a knot in their competitive furor to "win."
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Post by sader1970 on Jul 16, 2024 16:53:01 GMT -5
Not losing any sleep over any of this.
We happen to live in a competitive country. Everyone strives to be #1. I will leave to the sociologists to figure out why that is.
I personally disagreed with Fr. McFarland who fairly sniffed with disdain over USN&WR rankings. And, while we had been a top 25 liberal arts college according to those rankings (21 -23 give or take), we sank lower and lower and, like it or not, so did our College’s reputation.
Part of the criticism of USN&WR rankings from our perspective was that so much was factored in on “reputation” which was how the school was perceived by other colleges. Our leadership felt that there was a prejudice against Catholic schools and, essentially said, “the hell with it.”
We also got a little haughty and said, we don’t need no stinkin standardized tests because we know better than that as to who is and is not a great student. So, we made it SAT optional and we saw the rankings go down even lower.
Now we have Vince as our president and he wants us to be back inside the top 25 liberal arts colleges - which means in the rankings, obviously. He is doing some proselytizing among his peers to obviously get the College’s reputation back even though I believe that factor has been reduced or eliminated.
He obviously understands that, like it or not, the rankings count when the best students and their parents are looking at schools.
I guarantee you that we will see HC climb in the rankings. Not because it ever was bad or because magically we are going to get significantly better, but because we have a president, unlike his immediate predecessors, who thinks rankings are important. I doubt we will cheat in order to do so.
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Post by mm67 on Jul 16, 2024 17:17:02 GMT -5
sader, Good points. But as you wrote, not losing any sleep. After nearly 8 full decades of life on this planet, there truly is no good reason to get too worked up about college gamesmanship.However, I am still trying to stay attached to the contemporary world. Nonetheless, taking in the beauty of a quiet sunrise or beautiful sunset over the sea and all of our beautiful planet or the love of family & friends transcends all. Time for me to rest & take it easy. Peace
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revj
Senior
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Post by revj on Jul 16, 2024 17:28:17 GMT -5
sader, Good points. But as you wrote, not losing any sleep. After nearly 8 full decades of life on this planet, there truly is no good reason to get too worked up about college gamesmanship.However, I am still trying to stay attached to the contemporary world. Nonetheless, taking in the beauty of a quiet sunrise or beautiful sunset over the sea and all of our beautiful planet or the love of family & friends transcends all. Time for me to rest & take it easy. Peace Perspective....
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revj
Senior
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Post by revj on Jul 16, 2024 17:28:44 GMT -5
sader, Good points. But as you wrote, not losing any sleep. After nearly 8 full decades of life on this planet, there truly is no good reason to get too worked up about college gamesmanship.However, I am still trying to stay attached to the contemporary world. Nonetheless, taking in the beauty of a quiet sunrise or beautiful sunset over the sea and all of our beautiful planet or the love of family & friends transcends all. Time for me to rest & take it easy. Peace Great Perspective....
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 16, 2024 20:42:49 GMT -5
^^^ This also explains Holy Cross' tabulation of tests scores for (IIRC) the class of 2025. About seven percent of that class had composite SAT standardized test scores below 1,000, with some having composite scores in the 800s. (This was a class that was COVID-disrupted in their high school schooling.) Wow - I am stunned that anyone with scores like that is at HC Image below is of the composite SAT scores for HC's Class of 2025. I early on ruled out these being scores of recruited athletes, because the percentages (i.e., number of student athletes with such low scores) were too high. (And this was also ignoring the AI floor.) For months, I leaned toward this was the result of someone deliberately entering false data to embarrass HC. HC being test-optional, why would anyone with such a low composite score ask that such a score be considered by admissions in the course of their review? That enrolling year was a one-off with respect to scores. ![](https://i.imgur.com/ZdvTAbp.png) ------------------------------------- Edited to add. There seems to be a poor correlation between the separate scores for verbal and math, and the composite scores. Tabulating the number of individual V/M scores in each percentile 'bucket' is simple addition, readily done by any third grader. The composite requires three steps: adding the V/M scores together; dividing the sum by two; then totaling the number of composite scores in each percentile 'bucket'. Maybe fifth grade level?I will also note that the class of 2025 applied during the peak of COVID. Holy Cross was remote during the fall of 2020, having closed the campus in the spring of 2020. So the typical 'admissions' process was anything but for the class of 2025. Ann also retired soon after LeSane arrived in January 2021.
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 16, 2024 23:04:08 GMT -5
Any info for enrolled students? Just checked on princeton review- data there suggest that 75% of NU students scored in the top 1% of national SAT scores. Again I find that hard to believe Enrolling students at Northeastern These values, i.e., the middle 50, are taken from the Common Data Set. The Common Data Set is the enrolling class. For Northeastern, for the class of 2027: 96,620 applied 5,459 admitted 2,738 enrolled Middle 50 percentiles, enrolling students SAT composite: 1460-1530 ACT composite: 33 -35 For SAT verbal, enrolling students 82.1 percent had a score between 700 and 800 For SAT math, enrolling students 92.6 percent had a score between 700 and 800 59.8 percent of the enrolling class were women 24.6 percent of the enrolling class was from Massachusetts New marketing approach: "Holy Cross, located in Worcester, a charming Boston neighborhood." You have to think being in Boston is a big draw for NU and the co-op approach is very practical and cost effective.
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wstruz71
Climbing Mt. St. James
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Post by wstruz71 on Jul 18, 2024 18:10:45 GMT -5
I am a member of Holy Cross Class of 1971. When I was a senior in high school, I applied to, and was accepted at Northeastern. If I went there, I would have been co oping at a naval research laboratory. I turned the offer of admission down, because I did not want to spend 5 years getting a Bachelors degree. This turned out to be a big mistake, because the same naval research laboratory ended up being my career. I would have had an extra 10% more in my retirement pension if I went to Northeastern and co oped. Plus, Holy Cross was still an all male college at the time, and I feel this put a major dent in my social life.
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 18, 2024 18:17:01 GMT -5
I am a member of Holy Cross Class of 1971. When I was a senior in high school, I applied to, and was accepted at Northeastern. If I went there, I would have been co oping at a naval research laboratory. I turned the offer of admission down, because I did not want to spend 5 years getting a Bachelors degree. This turned out to be a big mistake, because the same naval research laboratory ended up being my career. I would have had an extra 10% more in my retirement pension if I went to Northeastern and co oped. Plus, Holy Cross was still an all male college at the time, and I feel this put a major dent in my social life. But you wouldn't have a football team to root for in retirement...🤔
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Post by Crosser on Jul 18, 2024 20:48:22 GMT -5
I am a member of Holy Cross Class of 1971. When I was a senior in high school, I applied to, and was accepted at Northeastern. If I went there, I would have been co oping at a naval research laboratory. I turned the offer of admission down, because I did not want to spend 5 years getting a Bachelors degree. This turned out to be a big mistake, because the same naval research laboratory ended up being my career. I would have had an extra 10% more in my retirement pension if I went to Northeastern and co oped. Plus, Holy Cross was still an all male college at the time, and I feel this put a major dent in my social life. You knew what your Northeastern co-op placement would have been before you would have enrolled there?
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Post by timholycross on Jul 19, 2024 6:51:53 GMT -5
Maybe you lived in a place where you could have commuted, but IIRC NU students in the late 60s were on their own in terms of finding housing. The surrounding neighborhood wasn't so great in those days either.
BC wasn't much better. I'm pretty sure my acceptance letter came with no indication of housing options and it was pretty much written in stone that I'd have to commute at least one year. Big reason I chose HC. Too bad BC beat HC to the punch going co-ed, however.
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Post by rgs318 on Jul 19, 2024 7:24:51 GMT -5
Agreed. Of course, their nursing school meant that women students were always on the BC campus. Until I met my future wife (from St Vincent's) I admit I was jealous of that. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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