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Post by Tom on Jun 19, 2024 7:16:19 GMT -5
Mays passing started a conversation with some high school classmates. Last week, Mays was generally acknowledged as the greatest living ball player. Now who holds that title? I suppose there could be two answers to that question - a clean answer and a juiced answer
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Post by alum on Jun 19, 2024 7:26:37 GMT -5
Mays passing started a conversation with some high school classmates. Last week, Mays was generally acknowledged as the greatest living ball player. Now who holds that title? I suppose there could be two answers to that question - a clean answer and a juiced answer Willie's godson for the juiced one. |
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jun 19, 2024 8:55:58 GMT -5
Top WAR, Living Position Player (unjuiced) Rickey Henderson, 111.1
Top WAR, Active Position Players Mike Trout, 86.2 Mookie Betts, 68.7 Paul Goldschmidt, 62.0 MAYS - 156.2 |
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Post by hchoops on Jun 19, 2024 9:01:55 GMT -5
What is Griffey Jr’s WAR
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Post by alum on Jun 19, 2024 9:19:27 GMT -5
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 19, 2024 13:12:11 GMT -5
For position players don’t overlook Mike Schmidt #1 all- time at third base and Johnny Bench #1 at catcher
On the pariah side of the equation you’d have to consider Roger Clemens with his extraordinary career record
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Post by Tom on Jun 19, 2024 13:35:52 GMT -5
Henderson might have the highest WAR for any clean living player, but somehow he just doesn't pass my eyeball test as greatest living player. With Mays gone, Aaron gone, etc, it's hard to say
Been thinking about this since the conversation came up yesterday, and I'm leaning Griffey. Big plate numbers plus 10 gold gloves. Surprised his WAR was so low. Perhaps because Griffey the Red was a shadow of Griffey the Mariner. Comparing Mays WAR to these days makes it a more interesting question. With Mays and Aaron these was some debate (I was on the Mays side of that). But I just don't see anyone like that today. I might say that Griffey is the greatest living ball player - and there can be a lot of good debate on that. Last week it was an easy question and I don't think anyone clean in today's debate could hold a handle to the Say Hey Kid
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jun 19, 2024 14:04:49 GMT -5
Junior's WAR takes a hit because of his declining skills - especially in CF - after he left Seattle. He didn't have a single plus dWAR season during his final ten years. Great as he was, he doesn't even have the highest WAR among left-handed hitting, left-handed throwing outfielders born on November 21st in Donora, PA.
Rickey scored more runs than anybody ever, and created more runs than any other living player. But to KY's point, Bill James ranks Schmidt (#21) ahead of Henderson (#29) in his Top 100.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 19, 2024 14:06:42 GMT -5
Could Mike Trout, despite the recent shortened seasons, be the greatest living player? Compare his career numbers to any of the other players mentioned and you will be impressed. For example, he stands at #8 all-time in OPS+--he hits for average, for power, and he gets on base. He is an outstanding fielder. I really hope he can stay healthy-he is only 32-and can be at full health for another half dozen seasons or longer.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 19, 2024 14:16:10 GMT -5
Griffey's WAR takes a hit because of his declining skills - especially in CF - after he left Seattle. He didn't have a single plus dWAR season during his final ten years. Great as he was, he doesn't even have the highest WAR among left-handed hitting, left-handed throwing outfielders born on November 21st in Donora, PA. Rickey scored more runs than anybody ever, and created more runs than any other living player. But to KY's point, Bill James ranks Schmidt (#21) ahead of Henderson (#29) in his Top 100. Has everyone read the Bill James Historical Abstract? It is a sensational book. Beyond his math skills and algorithms, he is a most entertaining writer, providing great anecdotes and insights about players great, good, and okay. I was hoping he'd update it but. alas, he is now 77 and the 2003 edition may be the last. So, you won't read much about Derek Jeter or Robinson Cano or Mike Trout but you'll love the stories about 20th century stars and near stars.. It is highly recommended |
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Post by WCHC Sports on Jun 19, 2024 15:16:13 GMT -5
If you take away all the stats from Bonds' seven MVP seasons, he still is the only person in history with 440-something HRs, and in the high 300s stolen bases... ever. He's the greatest living ball player. Cartoon character numbers.
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Post by Tom on Jun 19, 2024 15:19:56 GMT -5
If you take away all the stats from Bonds' seven MVP seasons, he still is the only person in history with 440-something HRs, and in the high 300s stolen bases... ever. He's the greatest living ball player. Cartoon character numbers. At the moment we were discussing clean players |
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Post by Tom on Jun 19, 2024 15:21:11 GMT -5
Could Mike Trout, despite the recent shortened seasons, be the greatest living player? Compare his career numbers to any of the other players mentioned and you will be impressed. For example, he stands at #8 all-time in OPS+--he hits for average, for power, and he gets on base. He is an outstanding fielder. I really hope he can stay healthy-he is only 32-and can be at full health for another half dozen seasons or longer. Such a great player, it would be nice if he could play a meaningful game in September at some point |
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Post by hcpride on Jun 19, 2024 15:25:49 GMT -5
Could Mike Trout, despite the recent shortened seasons, be the greatest living player? Compare his career numbers to any of the other players mentioned and you will be impressed. For example, he stands at #8 all-time in OPS+--he hits for average, for power, and he gets on base. He is an outstanding fielder. I really hope he can stay healthy-he is only 32-and can be at full health for another half dozen seasons or longer. The example of Trout calls to mind an often overlooked component of Mays’ excellence. His durability: From 1954 through 1966, Mays played in at least 151 games every year. The NL was still playing a 154-game schedule for the first seven years of that stretch; he didn’t miss more than five games in any season until 1966, when he missed nine…Avoiding injuries also allowed Mays to age extraordinarily well, particularly in terms of speed and defense. Other generational defenders in center field, like Ken Griffey Jr. and Andruw Jones, saw their defensive value fall off a cliff by the time they turned 30. But Mays rated as a plus-18 defender in 1966, at age 35. He was one of the best baserunners in the league at age 39, when he took the extra base on hits 74 percent of the time, and at 40, when he stole 23 bases and led the NL with an 88 percent success rate. He was ageless and he was peerless.
Of all the incredible things about Mays’s career, the fact that he played just as well and as often at age 34 as he did at age 23 may be the hardest to replicate. Consider the plight of one of the few players who at any point could have also honestly been considered for the title of Greatest Living Ballplayer: Mike Trout, who led the AL in bWAR five straight years from ages 20 to 24, and who went into his age 28 season—merely five years ago!—with 72.5 bWAR, 22 wins ahead of Mays’s pace. Five years later, Trout has added just 14 wins to his total. He’s now 11 wins behind Mays, and about to enter his age 33 and 34 seasons, when Mays registered back-to-back 11-win seasons. (There have been just five 11-win seasons by a position player in the 58 seasons since.)www.theringer.com/platform/amp/mlb/2024/6/19/24181679/willie-mays-obituary-life-legacy-statistics |
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Post by hchoops on Jun 19, 2024 15:36:02 GMT -5
Good stuff.
And I do not know if this was already mentioned, but Willie missed 2 seasons in his prime while serving in the US Army
What could his WAR be with 2 typical Willie prime years ?
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jun 19, 2024 17:18:45 GMT -5
Could Mike Trout, despite the recent shortened seasons, be the greatest living player? . . . I really hope he can stay healthy-he is only 32-and can be at full health for another half dozen seasons or longer. He hasn't been healthy for a long time. Since the beginning of the 2021 season, he's missed almost 300 games, due to a depressingly long list of injuries. Fixing the meniscus was supposed to keep him out 4-6 weeks, but seven weeks after surgery, he still can't run.
Great player, and a sure Hall of Famer, but I'll be surprised if he's able to play meaningfully past thirty-five.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jun 19, 2024 17:22:33 GMT -5
Good stuff. And I do not know if this was already mentioned, but Willie missed 2 seasons in his prime while serving in the US Army What could his WAR be with 2 typical Willie prime years ?Mays averaged 8.4 WAR per 162 games. So add 16 WAR to his 156+, and he would be #1, ahead of Ruth and Mr. Potato Head. |
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Post by gks on Jun 19, 2024 17:46:56 GMT -5
You can throw your WAR in the trash.
Ken Griffey, Jr. now holds the title.....period.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 19, 2024 21:51:57 GMT -5
You can throw your WAR in the trash. Ken Griffey, Jr. now holds the title.....period. Please clarify: what title does Ken Griffey JR now hold? |
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