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Post by efg72 on Dec 13, 2017 18:17:17 GMT -5
We can describe this process as Patience required Abdication of leadership and responsibility by the Administration Extraordinary due diligence that reminds us how we all looked for our first house—the more you see the more confused you become Or Nobody of potential or standing meets NP standards
Regardless of your choice our students and student athletes have not been well served. If the board of trustees is not disgusted by this process we should change the entire board
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 13, 2017 18:22:33 GMT -5
OR, it can be described as the AD and administration exercising due diligence (without confusion) and making every effort to get the best coach for the job, with all details of his contract in place. It is easier to make up a list to support your view (whatever that may be) when we don't know what actually happened in the selection process or the person who will be selected. Never let facts stand in the way of a forced fixed choice list of options.
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Post by beerseach on Dec 13, 2017 18:37:31 GMT -5
Tomorrow.....
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Post by inhocsigno on Dec 13, 2017 18:38:36 GMT -5
I am not sure I agree with all the whining about the timing and how this is an abdication of leadership or failure. The choice is serious and will have lasting implications for the program. It should take reasoned judgment and thoughtfulness. Presumably, real due diligence began immediately after FCTG's firing; presumably initial contacts were made and some preliminary interviews were held in the period from the firing until the end of the seasons of the top choices; presumably extensive interviews were held after Assumption, Harvard, etc. seasons ended; offer; internal HC discussions, board and president approval of contract framework for offer; maybe counteroffer or negotiations re buyouts, etc.; acceptance; announcement.
If this was a true national search, regardless of the final choice, it is completely reasonable to assume that Pine could not interview any of the candidates topping his list until after the seasons were over.
Again, I'll reserve judgment until the announcement, but the only way I would agree with the people crying about the timing and poor process would be if Pine removes the interim tag on Rock.
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 13, 2017 18:40:11 GMT -5
Bite your tongue...please!
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Post by rickii on Dec 13, 2017 18:52:26 GMT -5
OR, it can be described as the AD and administration exercising due diligence (without confusion) and making every effort to get the best coach for the job, with all details of his contract in place. It is easier to make up a list to support your view (whatever that may be) when we don't know what actually happened in the selection process or the person who will be selected. Never let facts stand in the way of a forced fixed choice list of options. +1
And would add that can you imagine how much more difficult it would be finding qualified interest in this job without Nate Pine and the Luth family ?
Some act like this is a quasi lay-up....like guys are falling all over themselves to be the Head Coach at HC....in the wonderful Patriot League.
Maybe Pine with help from our Prez and certain BOT members will frankly get very lucky after what certainly appears to be an exhausting and probably frustrating search to get the best man possible.
BTW, is Fordham still searching ?
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Post by efg72 on Dec 13, 2017 18:53:24 GMT -5
I listed extraordinary due diligence as an option. There are no obvious facts in this case, because it lacks any degree or level of transparency. With that said, if I was NP I am not so sure I would have shared anything either, but this is about making a decision and moving forward.
This is important, perhaps even critical to the direction and future of the football program, but it certainly is not rocket science. I have helped manage boards of multiple top 100 companies and understand the complexity of the decision, yet I am stunned by the unwillingness to pull the trigger.
The kids and the program need a leader, direction and focus. Alums want hope that this will turn around. Any one of those listed as being among the group of candidates will be fine but it is time to move. Don’t let the perfect choice get in the way of a good choice. I was there during the changes taking place with Coach Boisture, albeit I was a mediocre player at best, but I can truly appreciate the anxiety and uncertainty of the players as the leave for Christmas and the semester break.
So I certainly respect your position and comments, especially with b-ball, but in this case I disagree. If I am wrong, and I offended others please, please accept my apology. We are all part of a wonderful institution that made our contributions to others and successes in life possible, and the beauty of that education is we were all taught how to think clearly and express ourselves-and most of you mastered both better than I could have dreamed.
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Post by crosspride on Dec 13, 2017 19:06:26 GMT -5
I am not sure I agree with all the whining about the timing and how this is an abdication of leadership or failure. The choice is serious and will have lasting implications for the program. It should take reasoned judgment and thoughtfulness. Presumably, real due diligence began immediately after FCTG's firing; presumably initial contacts were made and some preliminary interviews were held in the period from the firing until the end of the seasons of the top choices; presumably extensive interviews were held after Assumption, Harvard, etc. seasons ended; offer; internal HC discussions, board and president approval of contract framework for offer; maybe counteroffer or negotiations re buyouts, etc.; acceptance; announcement. If this was a true national search, regardless of the final choice, it is completely reasonable to assume that Pine could not interview any of the candidates topping his list until after the seasons were over. Again, I'll reserve judgment until the announcement, but the only way I would agree with the people crying about the timing and poor process would be if Pine removes the interim tag on Rock. Everything you describe occurs during every single college football coaching search. If Holy Cross can’t complete this process in a timely fashion, that’s an issue. Lafayette hired a coach in 3 weeks last year. And they didn’t have a month head start on their search like we did after firing our coach mid season.
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Post by joe on Dec 13, 2017 19:08:52 GMT -5
As I’ve said a one paragraph courtesy update from the AD or a posting on the website asking for continued patience would do wonders to show alumni and fans that people on the hill give a crap about them, at least just a little. No, we’re not owed this, but a little effort goes a long way. Most, if not all, of the current angst would have been well tempered. Hoping this was a learning experience for the people at HC in managing expectations. To me this is all about poor manners, quite frankly.
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Post by efg72 on Dec 13, 2017 19:17:43 GMT -5
Amen
This is a business, but if the AD doesn’t have plan A, B, C, or D for a coaching change he has a problem. Hypothetically TG is here through the entire season, decides he doesn’t want to coach again, what options does NP have? You never fire someone in business or have a senior vacancy if you are unable to make a selection in 30-45 days because the shareholders will kill your market cap when they sell. So transition this to sports and look at recruiting Think where we could be in the recruiting process if a decision was made before Thanksgiving. Maybe no better off, especially if we didn’t make the best choice, but I will take my chances because when a new coach comes in, it is a fresh start and opportunities exist for players and some coaches become amazing recruiters.
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Post by hcpride on Dec 13, 2017 19:18:35 GMT -5
FWIW Moorhead described the process of his hiring at Mississippi State. MS HC Mullen announced on November 26 he was leaving. Essentially MS Athletic Director reached out to Moorhead's rep and he told MS AD that Moorhead was interested. Respective reps talked back and forth. Then the MS AD and Moorhead met near Penn State. Then reps talked and faxed back and forth. Second meeting w/contract was also near Penn State about November 28. Moorhead flew to MS (for the very first time) as the Head Coach on 29 November. By the time of the first press conference he had already spoken to the incoming recruits. One will never know if Moorhead was first choice. Discretion and speed worked in everyone's favor. AD had already decided who he would go after (should HC Mullen depart] so it was an efficient operation.
Of course we are not Mississippi State but one has to wonder if NP had strategically targeted a good and gettable coach or two or three prior to pulling the trigger on the TG firing.
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Post by efg72 on Dec 13, 2017 19:27:02 GMT -5
If he didn’t make an immediate decision, or one following the last game, it would suggest he was responding to his preference, complaints by parents/players or key alum. But if he had a plan it certainly is less than obvious or everybody he wanted turned it down. We love the place but some coaches might not think they can win here and as a result turned it down. If that happened it doesn’t fall on NP but the institution and the Board. Commitment matters and perhaps we are too close to this and believe it to be a great opportunity-coaches might not view it the same way-I defer to “coach” who is close to and engaged in this process/world
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Post by rickii on Dec 13, 2017 19:47:26 GMT -5
If he didn’t make an immediate decision, or one following the last game, it would suggest he was responding to his preference, complaints by parents/players or key alum. But if he had a plan it certainly is less than obvious or everybody he wanted turned it down. We love the place but some coaches might not think they can win here and as a result turned it down. If that happened it doesn’t fall on NP but the institution and the Board. Commitment matters and perhaps we are too close to this and believe it to be a great opportunity-coaches might not view it the same way-I defer to “coach” who is close to and engaged in this process/world
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Post by hc80 on Dec 13, 2017 19:49:08 GMT -5
After reading efg72 posts I have decided that I miss HC70
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Post by efg72 on Dec 13, 2017 19:55:51 GMT -5
HC 80 apologize if I offended you but it is merely a point of view. I want nothing but the best for the program and the school. When it comes to football the game has passed me by so many times and I am just trying to approach this as managing a process. With hoops it might be a slightly different case and after 32 years of coaching AAU I feel as if I know the game as well as most, but certainly no better.
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Post by hc80 on Dec 13, 2017 19:57:09 GMT -5
Coaching AAU for 32 years? ‘nuf said.
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Post by hc80 on Dec 13, 2017 19:57:21 GMT -5
Coaching AAU for 32 years? ‘nuf said.
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coach
Sophomore
Posts: 28
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Post by coach on Dec 13, 2017 20:02:15 GMT -5
What I find most interesting, if it is indeed Chesney, is that the scuttlebutt in the coaching community was that it was going to be Chesney for sure. I first heard “Bobby Chesney is going to be the head coach at HC” before Thanksgiving.
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Post by 6sader7 on Dec 13, 2017 20:10:13 GMT -5
If he didn’t make an immediate decision, or one following the last game, it would suggest he was responding to his preference, complaints by parents/players or key alum. But if he had a plan it certainly is less than obvious or everybody he wanted turned it down. We love the place but some coaches might not think they can win here and as a result turned it down. If that happened it doesn’t fall on NP but the institution and the Board. Commitment matters and perhaps we are too close to this and believe it to be a great opportunity-coaches might not view it the same way-I defer to “coach” who is close to and engaged in this process/world This doesn't surprise me at all. I think almost any objective person with any understanding of football and the patriot league would agree that the Lafayette job comes with a much much less degree of risk. Recruiting that talent-rich area of the country with brand new facilities, great academics, the oldest rivalry in college football, and an administration that has proven time and again they're willing to back up the program? Not to mention a Business school, no religious affiliation, and the fact that they don't go out of their way to bill themselves as the biggest multi-cultural safe space on the east coast? I think the Holy Cross job comes with a lot more risk than Lafayette or Fordham. The Luth helps, but it's yet to be realized.
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Post by efg72 on Dec 13, 2017 20:19:49 GMT -5
HC 80 thanks for the latest response, I welcome your insights and judgment
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 13, 2017 20:19:56 GMT -5
This doesn't surprise me at all. I think almost any objective person with any understanding of football and the patriot league would agree that the Lafayette job comes with a much much less degree of risk. Recruiting that talent-rich area of the country with brand new facilities, great academics, the oldest rivalry in college football, and an administration that has proven time and again they're willing to back up the program? Not to mention a Business school, no religious affiliation, and the fact that they don't go out of their way to bill themselves as the biggest multi-cultural safe space on the east coast? I think the Holy Cross job comes with a lot more risk than Lafayette or Fordham. The Luth helps, but it's yet to be realized. Nailed it.
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Post by cmo on Dec 13, 2017 20:24:39 GMT -5
Scratch Lamb off list.
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Post by hcgrad94 on Dec 13, 2017 21:03:06 GMT -5
This doesn't surprise me at all. I think almost any objective person with any understanding of football and the patriot league would agree that the Lafayette job comes with a much much less degree of risk. Recruiting that talent-rich area of the country with brand new facilities, great academics, the oldest rivalry in college football, and an administration that has proven time and again they're willing to back up the program? Not to mention a Business school, no religious affiliation, and the fact that they don't go out of their way to bill themselves as the biggest multi-cultural safe space on the east coast? I think the Holy Cross job comes with a lot more risk than Lafayette or Fordham. The Luth helps, but it's yet to be realized. Lafayette Athletics are a dumpster fire. They have toyed w going D3 in the last decade and their alumni hate the administration. Without the Kirbys and their tens of millions in gifts, they are nothing athletically.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 13, 2017 21:09:59 GMT -5
OR, it can be described as the AD and administration exercising due diligence (without confusion) and making every effort to get the best coach for the job, with all details of his contract in place. It is easier to make up a list to support your view (whatever that may be) when we don't know what actually happened in the selection process or the person who will be selected. Never let facts stand in the way of a forced fixed choice list of options. +1
And would add that can you imagine how much more difficult it would be finding qualified interest in this job without Nate Pine and the Luth family ?
A rather preposterous statement. We’re more than likely going to hire the head coach from Assumption (who I think is a very good fit for the job), who we could have “found” with a chair as our AD. Heck, maybe the chair could have even made the decision in under 8.5 weeks.
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Post by 6sader7 on Dec 13, 2017 21:21:42 GMT -5
This doesn't surprise me at all. I think almost any objective person with any understanding of football and the patriot league would agree that the Lafayette job comes with a much much less degree of risk. Recruiting that talent-rich area of the country with brand new facilities, great academics, the oldest rivalry in college football, and an administration that has proven time and again they're willing to back up the program? Not to mention a Business school, no religious affiliation, and the fact that they don't go out of their way to bill themselves as the biggest multi-cultural safe space on the east coast? I think the Holy Cross job comes with a lot more risk than Lafayette or Fordham. The Luth helps, but it's yet to be realized. Lafayette Athletics are a dumpster fire. They have toyed w going D3 in the last decade and their alumni hate the administration. Without the Kirbys and their tens of millions in gifts, they are nothing athletically. Almost as if you’re holding up a mirror, no?
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