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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Jan 20, 2018 20:07:31 GMT -5
It's the conundrum (athletic brand-wise anyway) the school is now in. As an institution, we want to stay connected to the PL but in doing so, it has severely hampered the two marquee sports of men's basketball and football. It is absurd that the current men's basketball staff (though good for them and this is not a "knock on them"...just pointing out the absurdity of it all) is paid roughly half a million dollars a year to coach in a league that draws about the same as some high school programs in Massachusetts most nights. That is crazy and true. The staff is payed way to much for the amount of fans they get. It is a shame that people are so tied into the PL they think it is the ACC. It is about 10 schools that mostly just have basketball. The winner of the league does absolutely nothing on the national stage. March Madness, NIT, FCS Playoffs. The teams get knocked out in the first round. I don't even know where to begin in picking apart this post.
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 20, 2018 20:12:02 GMT -5
You keep beating this drum. Do you actually know something, or is this simply hot air...or wishful thinking on your part?
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Jan 20, 2018 20:22:50 GMT -5
You keep beating this drum. Do you actually know something, or is this simply hot air...or wishful thinking on your part? Rob - given this staff doesn't pump him with propoganda, and no father of a player - oops "AAU guy" to get info from, its likely option 2 or 3.
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Post by notjuanjones on Jan 20, 2018 20:26:22 GMT -5
Even Bucknell fans must hate Birdsong I turned on the mute when he spelled out "fouled" I have said this on the AU board, because there are people who think he's not all that bad: He. Is. A. Hack.
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Bucknell
Jan 20, 2018 20:32:56 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 20, 2018 20:32:56 GMT -5
I think we will improve significantly next season It sounds like you think the Frosh follow the exact opposite path of every other Carmody recruit to date, and improve simply because their class year goes from Frosh to Soph. Fingers crossed! The only guy who has developed so far is Floyd and he came to HC with a combination of athleticism, size, strength, and raw talent that doesn’t exist in the frosh class.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 20, 2018 20:45:30 GMT -5
If you don't see potential in Austin Butler and Jacob Grandison (just two prominent examples) you really should stop following basketball and find another sport that will be a better vehicle for demonstrating your expertise in sports analysis.
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Bucknell
Jan 20, 2018 21:04:04 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 20, 2018 21:04:04 GMT -5
If you don't see potential in Austin Butler and Jacob Grandison (just two prominent examples) you really should stop following basketball and find another sport that will be a better vehicle for demonstrating your expertise in sports analysis. Butler has potential, but appears to have a ceiling due to his size. He’s a 3 trapped in a 2’s body. Grandison has shown some flashes, but nowhere near the hype that some have projected. Karl Charles showed far more as a frosh, and I struggle to see what his position will be. Again, a 4 trapped in a 3’s body. . And you are exactly right that this is just two examples. The other 4 will take some very strong “sports analysis” to project as difference makers.
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Post by hc87 on Jan 20, 2018 21:21:36 GMT -5
I don't even know where to begin in picking apart this post. Can you say with a straight face that there were ovah 1K actual fannies in the seats for either the Army or Loyola games at Hart??? From the pics I've seen from either the HC site or bfoley, there couldn't have been more than 500 souls (if that) at either game. All I'm saying is that it's the height of absurdity (or delusion) to think that the HC Men's Basketball HC should be paid 300-400K to coach in this league. If that's what the market says he should get....then more power to him. (Again not a knock on Carmody....same goes for every PL hoop coach). It simply doesn't make any rationale sense to me. There is no real pressure to win from fans/alums, no media to deal with etc etc to warrant such a salary. We are basically a "pretend D1 basketball program" right now. I'd dare say there is more pressure, issues etc to be the boys head coach at Catholic Memorial HS or BC High right now than there is at Holy Cross.
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Post by cfrivals on Jan 20, 2018 21:38:48 GMT -5
Absolutely no media pressure. But BC is the same way. There is not talk on sports radio, no news coverage, outside internet, very little tv. The small club of HC fans on this site fall into three groups 1-alum, bleed purple casual fan, but will support the School no matter what. 2-longtime BB fans that have a passion to see HC return to the power they once were, but realize that will never happen and just try to look at what have and enjoy 3- those who have hung on and consistently see an inferior product in an inferior league with inferior coaching, but for some reason hang on by a thread because they hope someone within the college gets it!!
I have respect for all my fellow posters because this is not easy to come on here year after year and continue to post about a program that seems to be fading more and more each year. I know everyone on this board wants HC to win, and compete for a championship every year. I just wish the administration had a clue how to back sports on the hill. As far as I am concerned, they are the problem.
Thought: get a young coach from a top 10 team, offer him $800k-1 mil. Give him all the admin backing and authority to get the best ballers in the program. Give him 4 years, and see what happens! What do you have to lose at this point?
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Bucknell
Jan 20, 2018 21:40:46 GMT -5
via mobile
hc87 likes this
Post by bikeman on Jan 20, 2018 21:40:46 GMT -5
Fr.Brooks was right on. Athletics at HC are hardly entertaining. Very boring indeed.
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Post by trimster on Jan 20, 2018 22:45:42 GMT -5
Interest in HC basketball may be at an all-time low. Program is irrelevant on so many fronts. Very sad to see.
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Post by hc87 on Jan 20, 2018 22:50:58 GMT -5
Meanwhile, a sold-out 12K+ at the Dunk for Creighton at PC today...remembah when we played at their level? I do....vaguely
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Post by trimster on Jan 20, 2018 22:57:35 GMT -5
We are light years away from that level now.
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Post by trimster on Jan 20, 2018 23:06:01 GMT -5
We have become The College of the Holy Cross where athletic success is measured by participation and graduation rates.
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Post by hc87 on Jan 20, 2018 23:08:10 GMT -5
We are....very sad.
Reason I harp on this so much is that our overall athletic model is just so broken. We make all the "noises" of playing at the highest-level of college athletics (building a Luth, paying our coaches 300K/yr, scheduling a BC in football, talk of joining Hockey East etc etc....but we are just so bad/irrelevant on the actual fields, courts, rinks.
The whole thing is ultimately comical if it wasn't so sad ultimately. A serious examanation of where we are headed athletically (new league? D3?) is really needed imo....we can continue on this current path of "cutting the baby in half" by staying in the PL but I think it's ultimately unsustainable (if we want to achieve any sort of success in basketball or football anyway).
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Post by trimster on Jan 20, 2018 23:17:25 GMT -5
At some point it seems to me the powers that be are going to question just what the college is getting from such a large investment when it comes to scholarship costs, coaches salaries, etc. I don't think you can rule out D3 when it comes to the future of the athletic program.
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Post by hc87 on Jan 20, 2018 23:31:31 GMT -5
At some point it seems to me the powers that be are going to question just what the college is getting from such a large investment when it comes to scholarship costs, coaches salaries, etc. I don't think you can rule out D3 when it comes to the future of the athletic program. It will be interesting. People on the Hill much smahhtah than I have obviously done the calculus...concluding that HC is bettah off in the PL and getting kids in to play soccer, field hockey, lacrosse etc etc in the PL...the flip-side though is that men's hoop will suffer due to this. There's just no way around this. People here can talk of the success we have had in the PL in basketball but it was mostly a mirage (taking nothing away from the Willard years and players then) but they weren't close to the types of teams/players we had prior to not joining the Big East.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 20, 2018 23:41:43 GMT -5
Yeah, we made a $95MM investment in new facilities to prepare for a move to D-3.....
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 20, 2018 23:54:53 GMT -5
Interest in HC basketball may be at an all-time low. Program is irrelevant on so many fronts. Very sad to see. No, no, no! The future is bright!! Everything is awesome! Just wait until the frosh becomes sophs!
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Post by hc87 on Jan 21, 2018 0:01:44 GMT -5
Yeah, we made a $95MM investment in new facilities to prepare for a move to D-3..... Quite possibly the most expensive tube for "lipstick on a pig" evah...we shall see. It all comes down to the recruits we can get to HC to play PL basketball or football....just not sure even a Luth type of investment will change things that much for either sport...would love to be proven wrong.
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Post by trimster on Jan 21, 2018 0:01:45 GMT -5
A good chunk of that 95 million came from two alums with very deep pockets. It remains to be seen how much of an impact it will have on the athletic program. Row upon row of empty seats at Fitton and the Hart Center are tough to overcome when it comes to selling a program to a recruit.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jan 21, 2018 5:51:31 GMT -5
I ordered 30 posts! Waiter! Waiter!
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 21, 2018 6:33:49 GMT -5
As a service to those looking to moan and groan about the state of Holy Cross athletics, rather than have every game thread get derailed, please consider going to the General Sports forum and put your comments under the new thread I've created: "State of Holy Cross Athletics" Thanks, in advance!
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jan 21, 2018 7:10:19 GMT -5
Set records there for number of posts on that thread! Thanks Sader1970
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Post by hcpride on Jan 21, 2018 7:16:11 GMT -5
Maybe we could start a thread called 'Positive Takeaways" following our losses?
Like speculating that a player is a frosh or junior and will therefore be better next year. Or noting it is early (or mid) season and we'll therefore get better as the season progresses. Or unearthing stats that show 'improvement' in one relatively obscure category or another. Or the Luth (or the coach) as a future (if not present) recruit magnet. Or pointing out (when applicable) various doubling or tripling of Hart center crowd size from the previous game.
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