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Post by matunuck on Mar 15, 2018 9:48:31 GMT -5
No surprise at all. Better off to just dump the name entirely than twist ourselves into this silliness.
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 15, 2018 10:01:06 GMT -5
Perhaps that is what some of the snowflakes have as their ultimate goal.
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Post by crusader12 on Mar 15, 2018 10:15:29 GMT -5
You know what is also bothersome? In our primary logo with the crusader holding the sword and shield we also have the cross on the shield. Will all cross imagery go away too? What are we doing here Holy Cross?
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 15, 2018 13:10:08 GMT -5
If we now need "HC" for "Holy" Cross was the shield's previous Cross "unholy?"
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Post by beaven302 on Mar 15, 2018 13:53:42 GMT -5
I suppose the Black Knights of Army West Point should be asked to leave the Patriot League now...rather than subject any of these politically correct meatheads to possibility of even seeing such a sight on the campus. I will donate to the Crusader Athletic Fund (provided that name renames) but not one dime to the general fund....ever. And if HC ever ends up having play Rutgers in a tournament, it should forfeit rather than play the bloodstained Scarlet Knights. That said, the decision is very disappointing -- political correctness run rampant.
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Post by rickii on Mar 15, 2018 13:56:08 GMT -5
What a joke. It would be tough to have a weaker President than we have right now. We need a “Holy Cross guy” (or gal) running the school. And that HC “shield” logo they are replacing the knight with is awful. We had a Holy Cross guy....but he too caved....willingly.
Maybe it's time to pursue a layman....
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Post by spenser on Mar 15, 2018 15:58:13 GMT -5
Did anyone read the early February letter from Fr. Broughs and the Board? Based on that letter it was inevitable that this was going to happen. From the beginning it was obvious that one of two things was going to happen. We drop the word Crusader, become something like the Purple Knights and keep the knight on the shield, Iggy, the whole thing. Or a new logo was coming that reflected the definition of the word Crusader as the College viewed it. Once that decision was made to keep the word Crusaderand the letter that was sent out pretty clearly indicated that there would be a new logo. I get the political correctness argument some are making and to a limited extent I agree with it. But this change does not affect my loyalty to Holy Cross at all. I recieved a great education, made a lot of great friends, had a great time, and got into law school. What’s not to like? My identification with Holy Cross is in no way connected to a depiction of a guy on horseback. And quite frankly, I think that it’s silly to believe that. If you read both letters from Fr. Broughs it is clear that the Catholic identity of the College remains. They aren’t changing the name, the Jesuits aren’t going anywhere (as long as there are still Jesuits available) and the ideals of the College I went to aren’t going to change. PS. I’ve been out over 40 years.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Mar 15, 2018 16:12:41 GMT -5
Did anyone read the early February letter from Fr. Broughs and the Board? Based on that letter it was inevitable that this was going to happen. From the beginning it was obvious that one of two things was going to happen. We drop the word Crusader, become something like the Purple Knights and keep the knight on the shield, Iggy, the whole thing. Or a new logo was coming that reflected the definition of the word Crusader as the College viewed it. Once that decision was made to keep the word Crusaderand the letter that was sent out pretty clearly indicated that there would be a new logo. I get the political correctness argument some are making and to a limited extent I agree with it. But this change does not affect my loyalty to Holy Cross at all. I recieved a great education, made a lot of great friends, had a great time, and got into law school. What’s not to like? My identification with Holy Cross is in no way connected to a depiction of a guy on horseback. And quite frankly, I think that it’s silly to believe that. If you read both letters from Fr. Broughs it is clear that the Catholic identity of the College remains. They aren’t changing the name, the Jesuits aren’t going anywhere (as long as there are still Jesuits available) and the ideals of the College I went to aren’t going to change. PS. I’ve been out over 40 years. Fair point. However, it's what the college does that elicits opinion and sentiment. The college choosing not to do this or that in attendance/admissions, academics, athletics, etc. determine how the wider world sees us. I think some of us that are dismayed by the events were hoping for the college to use this opportunity to say that the PC approach is nonsense, reaffirm our use of the crusader moniker and mascot, and take a stand. Instead, we have given credence to the weak viewpoints or complaints of those opposed to all things Crusader, drawn more attention to it-- and in my opinion-- have shown the absolute weakest response in trying to appease to both sides. A crusader as a person with no mascot? Weird. The fact that the shield is still referenced is still a nod to the fact that they are knights in the first place. Either stand strong, or change it outright. The waffling/middle ground is worse than going one way or the other. Your last point that the ideals of the College aren't going to change is the very point critics of this decision are calling into question.
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 15, 2018 16:20:17 GMT -5
Spencer, I would disagree. It was inevitable that something would happen, not necessarily abandoning anything connected to a Knight because Knights are linked to the Crusades and some bad things happened there.
I am glad this has not impacted your loyalty to Holy Cross. I will probably reach that point at some time. BUT, right now I am hurt by the way in which the traditions I hold so dear have been rejected because of a vocal minority. I remember that one student was quoted as saying that if even one person was offended, then the offending name, symbol, etc. had to go. Well I (and some others here) take offense at the stripping of anything related to the positive aspects of the Knight mascots that are so long connected to Holy Cross. If one possible future or current student cannot be offended, why is it acceptable to offend me and other alums with similar feelings? I guess the empathy of some extends only to those with whom they agree and everyone else can go take a flying leap. That is not the way I used to think that HC did things.
PS: I graduated over 50 years ago (and have my now collectable "Purple Knight" pin).
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Post by DFW HOYA on Mar 15, 2018 17:53:21 GMT -5
I remember that one student was quoted as saying that if even one person was offended, then the offending name, symbol, etc. had to go. With student thinking like that, the College's very name is up for grabs. Why the S.J.'s don't put their foot down about such sophomoric ideas in the name of diversity is baffling.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 15, 2018 18:16:25 GMT -5
I remember that one student was quoted as saying that if even one person was offended, then the offending name, symbol, etc. had to go. With student thinking like that, the College's very name is up for grabs. Why the S.J.'s don't put their foot down about such sophomoric ideas in the name of diversity is baffling. Georgetown started it.
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Post by Sader Fan on Mar 15, 2018 23:06:39 GMT -5
What a waste of money this is going to be. We just put in two brand new, beautiful basketball courts with the Crusader and Sword logo in the center. I guess they have to be ripped up and re-designed. Our donated dollars down the drain.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 16, 2018 5:45:53 GMT -5
What a waste of money this is going to be. We just put in two brand new, beautiful basketball courts with the Crusader and Sword logo in the center. I guess they have to be ripped up and re-designed. Our donated dollars down the drain. You know little about how quickly a paint job can be replaced on a court. When the Palestra hosted the Ivy playoffs, the green crest of the IL replaced the Penn Block P. The design for the Luth practice field called for a large size crusader with sword and shield to be painted on, IIRC, the south wall. It never appeared.
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Post by hcpride on Mar 16, 2018 6:20:30 GMT -5
From another perspective it could also be true that an overtly Catholic college (in terms of name, nickname, mascot, moniker, and logo) is not well-branded to appeal to the stronger high school students. Nowadays. This cave-in to the crusader= hate crew might soften that look and might aid in reviving our academic reputation/admission stats.
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Post by HC92 on Mar 16, 2018 6:47:08 GMT -5
We will not gain a single application or dollar of donation by keeping the name and doing away with the mascot. We may very well lose some of both.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 16, 2018 7:05:33 GMT -5
From another perspective it could also be true that an overtly Catholic college (in terms of name, nickname, mascot, moniker, and logo) is not well-branded to appeal to the stronger high school students. Nowadays. This cave-in to the crusader= hate crew might soften that look and might aid in reviving our academic reputation/admission stats. The underlying issue is that the medieval crusader and Deus Vult have been co-opted by the white nationalist alt right. Daily Stormer June 9, 2015 On blood and soil at Charlottesville, www.economist.com/blogs/kaffeeklatsch/2017/08/charlottesville-contextAs Nikki Haley took down the stars and bars in SC after a white nationalist shot up a black church, the college is being pro-active, rather than reacting to someone some day shooting up a synagogue or mosque and shouting Deus vult!
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Post by gks on Mar 16, 2018 8:01:03 GMT -5
It's sad to see Holy Cross throw it's identity away and for what....to appease a bunch of babies.
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Post by crusader12 on Mar 16, 2018 8:38:26 GMT -5
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Post by gks on Mar 16, 2018 10:06:57 GMT -5
Great cartoon!
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Post by Sader Fan on Mar 16, 2018 11:57:13 GMT -5
What a waste of money this is going to be. We just put in two brand new, beautiful basketball courts with the Crusader and Sword logo in the center. I guess they have to be ripped up and re-designed. Our donated dollars down the drain. You know little about how quickly a paint job can be replaced on a court. When the Palestra hosted the Ivy playoffs, the green crest of the IL replaced the Penn Block P. The design for the Luth practice field called for a large size crusader with sword and shield to be painted on, IIRC, the south wall. It never appeared. Thanks PP: I admit my ignorance of basketball court art but the state outline of Massachusetts is inlaid wood. I hope that it is the full state so that the "HC" shield can be fit over it ascetically.
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Post by hcgrad94 on Mar 16, 2018 12:10:55 GMT -5
You know little about how quickly a paint job can be replaced on a court. When the Palestra hosted the Ivy playoffs, the green crest of the IL replaced the Penn Block P. The design for the Luth practice field called for a large size crusader with sword and shield to be painted on, IIRC, the south wall. It never appeared. Thanks PP: I admit my ignorance of basketball court art but the state outline of Massachusetts is inlaid wood. I hope that it is the full state so that the "HC" shield can be fit over it ascetically. Nothing is inlaid all just painted on.
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Post by ncaam on Mar 16, 2018 12:42:51 GMT -5
Separation of church and state. MA logo should go!
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Post by crusader12 on Mar 16, 2018 14:47:03 GMT -5
Separation of church and state. MA logo should go! Agreed. -1 ADNP
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Post by Tom on Mar 16, 2018 15:23:04 GMT -5
Logos change periodically to seem fresh and new. That's what the shield seemed like a couple of years ago. It didn't affect me much. I am not thrilled by expending resources to wipe knight imagery from the campus because there are those that think if one person is offended, something has to go. It almost seems like some people want to be painted as a victim and need to have something to be offended by and if nothing is there, will go out and find something to be offended. While I am happy that we are still Crusaders and I'm not too worked up about the logo one way or another, I don't like the need to placate every whim of every vocal minority. It just leaves nothing of substance
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- HC should no longer be Crusaders. Their actions were atrocious by standards 800 years later and that outweighs any justification of the stated objective of fighting to save Christianity - UMass should no longer be the Minuteman. It sends a bad message having a gun toting mascot
- A state legislator has called for the name of Civil War General Joseph Hooker to be removed from the entrance way to the Massachusetts statehouse because his name elicits comments that are sexually harassing
- Statues of Winston Churchill should be removed because he didn't like Muslims even if he played a huge roll in defeating the Nazis
- Yawkey Way needs to revert back to Jersey St. Yawkey's known racism taints his philanthropic endeavors
- The Tampa Bay baseball team should change their name because it glorifies Satan
- The Star Spangled Banner shouldn't be our national anthem because the never played 3rd verse is racist
- The Stars and Bars should not be flown over the South Carolina statehouse (for obvious reasons)
I feel like we are barraged with the need to change all manner of things. This is at a point where lots of people, including me, just tune out and any such opinion is tossed aside as wacko PC rantings. The flip side is this has become the boy that cried wolf and legitimate examples of inappropriate symbols get lost in the noise.
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Post by Tom on Mar 16, 2018 15:27:11 GMT -5
. . . and before I get called all manner of nasty names, I did intentionally toss something in that list that I consider inappropriate so it could be lost in the noise of the silly stuff.
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