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Post by joutsHC77 on Mar 29, 2018 23:43:45 GMT -5
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Post by hcpride on Mar 30, 2018 6:03:41 GMT -5
We might occasionally forget that this highly offensive material is not only very insulting to all Catholics (70 million here in the US) but equally offensive to all Christians (about 300 million grouped together). At this point folks across the country who don't know of us are hearing about us for the first time. Even the atheists can't be impressed.
The embarrassing and self-inflicted crusader Muppet controversy merely made us a punchline for the masses, this is ticking off the Christians.
(I realize that the embarrassing and self-inflicted crusader Muppet controversy may have actually been a proud moment for a few social justice warrior types and this fellow's writings might have some appeal to another tiny group somewhere.)
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Post by alum on Mar 30, 2018 6:54:51 GMT -5
I really did want to get out of this debate but just need to make a couple of points. First, I thought that Father Borough's comment was fine. Second, as I understand it, many of you and many in the conservative media want this professor fired because he said something you believe to be wrong. The conservative media and posters on this site regularly criticize colleges for allegedly suppressing the free speech rights of conservative faculty and students. How is this not the same thing?
Holy Cross is a college in the Catholic and Jesuit traditions. What many don't understand is that the "college" part is first and most important.
Oh, I have a friend whose son has been accepted and will attend this fall. They are over the moon with joy.
Happy Easter.
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Post by ncaam on Mar 30, 2018 7:05:30 GMT -5
Whether or not conservative speech is suppressed on college campuses is a debate for another day. Perhaps we can start someday with Condi Rice/Rutgers. What are the facts Benny relies on to conclude Jesus was queer? Do they support his conclusion? I think not.
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Post by hiltonheadcrusader on Mar 30, 2018 7:11:06 GMT -5
I really did want to get out of this debate but just need to make a couple of points. First, I thought that Father Borough's comment was fine. Second, as I understand it, many of you and many in the conservative media want this professor fired because he said something you believe to be wrong. The conservative media and posters on this site regularly criticize colleges for allegedly suppressing the free speech rights of conservative faculty and students. How is this not the same thing? Holy Cross is a college in the Catholic and Jesuit traditions. What many don't understand is that the "college" part is first and most important. Oh, I have a friend whose son has been accepted and will attend this fall. They are over the moon with joy. Happy Easter. Burroughs and Benny should go on tour. One way, out of Worcester. Disgrace compounded. I too have a friend whose son is accepted and intends on attending The College in the Fall. He was recruited to play on the Lacrosse team. They told me they are watching this closely and rethinking their plans. Happy Easter.
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Post by alum on Mar 30, 2018 7:27:19 GMT -5
I really did want to get out of this debate but just need to make a couple of points. First, I thought that Father Borough's comment was fine. Second, as I understand it, many of you and many in the conservative media want this professor fired because he said something you believe to be wrong. The conservative media and posters on this site regularly criticize colleges for allegedly suppressing the free speech rights of conservative faculty and students. How is this not the same thing? Holy Cross is a college in the Catholic and Jesuit traditions. What many don't understand is that the "college" part is first and most important. Oh, I have a friend whose son has been accepted and will attend this fall. They are over the moon with joy. Happy Easter. Burroughs and Benny should go on tour. One way, out of Worcester. Disgrace compounded. I too have a friend whose son is accepted and intends on attending The College in the Fall. He was recruited to play on the Lacrosse team. They told me they are watching this closely and rethinking their plans. Happy Easter. I am glad your friend's son was recruited for lacrosse and plans to attend the College. If they are honest with themselves they will know that professors with non mainstream ideas exist at every college and that eventually somebody outs them and the college gets a week of bad publicity. I suspect that your friend's bigger concern ought to be whether Lattimore gets fired because the new coach might not be interested in keeping all of his recruits. Ask all of the people who Morrissey recruited who Lattimore cut.
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Post by hiltonheadcrusader on Mar 30, 2018 7:35:27 GMT -5
Burroughs and Benny should go on tour. One way, out of Worcester. Disgrace compounded. I too have a friend whose son is accepted and intends on attending The College in the Fall. He was recruited to play on the Lacrosse team. They told me they are watching this closely and rethinking their plans. Happy Easter. I am glad your friend's son was recruited for lacrosse and plans to attend the College. If they are honest with themselves they will know that professors with non mainstream ideas exist at every college and that eventually somebody outs them and the college gets a week of bad publicity. I suspect that your friend's bigger concern ought to be whether Lattimore gets fired because the new coach might not be interested in keeping all of his recruits. Ask all of the people who Morrissey recruited who Lattimore cut. He is closely watching the coaching situation also. He has PL safety options with teams who have defeated the Crusaders this year. Suffice it to say, I respect your right to have and voice your opinion. On this, like most matters (ex-Crusader athletics) I remain safely on the other end of the spectrum from you. Will now follow your previous stated goal and step away from this degenerative topic while remaining an interested observer.
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Post by hcpride on Mar 30, 2018 7:53:55 GMT -5
Burroughs and Benny should go on tour. One way, out of Worcester. Disgrace compounded. I too have a friend whose son is accepted and intends on attending The College in the Fall. He was recruited to play on the Lacrosse team. They told me they are watching this closely and rethinking their plans. Happy Easter. I am glad your friend's son was recruited for lacrosse and plans to attend the College. If they are honest with themselves they will know that professors with non mainstream ideas exist at every college and that eventually somebody outs them and the college gets a week of bad publicity. I suspect that your friend's bigger concern ought to be whether Lattimore gets fired because the new coach might not be interested in keeping all of his recruits. Ask all of the people who Morrissey recruited who Lattimore cut. Many players have left Lattimore's program. But agree w/Alum that boys lacrosse is yet another potential embarrassment and that program must be scaring off accepted recruited kids at this point. (I don't know if recruited early decision athletes can get release from an early-decision acceptance if the head lacrosse coach is fired.) It's been a very rough year public-relations wise at Holy Cross. (One would assume the social justice warriors frighty-scared of the nonexistent effect of the crusader muppet (Iggy) upon our Islamic friends would have even greater concern about the effects of this highly offensive material on Christians. We'll see.)
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Post by alum on Mar 30, 2018 8:05:24 GMT -5
I am glad your friend's son was recruited for lacrosse and plans to attend the College. If they are honest with themselves they will know that professors with non mainstream ideas exist at every college and that eventually somebody outs them and the college gets a week of bad publicity. I suspect that your friend's bigger concern ought to be whether Lattimore gets fired because the new coach might not be interested in keeping all of his recruits. Ask all of the people who Morrissey recruited who Lattimore cut. He is closely watching the coaching situation also. He has PL safety options with teams who have defeated the Crusaders this year. Suffice it to say, I respect your right to have and voice your opinion. On this, like most matters (ex-Crusader athletics) I remain safely on the other end of the spectrum from you. Will now follow your previous stated goal and step away from this degenerative topic while remaining an interested observer. This is well off topic, but it interests me more. These lacrosse recruits are non scholarship but typically do apply and are accepted ED. That means they committed to withdrawing other applications and to attending HC when accepted. Do PL schools allow athletes to renege on ED agreements and apply late and attend other PL schools? If there is a coaching change does that change the dynamic?
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Post by Tom on Mar 30, 2018 8:08:33 GMT -5
Exposed? The book with his chapter is on display at Holy Cross Shhh. According to bringbackcaro, the professor was teaching this while 'nobody knew' - must have been a very small class! Does anyone know if these bizarre interpretations of the Gospels come up in this guy's class? Everything in the Fenwick article is about writings prior to HC. I'm not defending the guy, just curious
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Post by td128 on Mar 30, 2018 8:23:09 GMT -5
Academic freedom? I guess that could ultimately cover anything and everything that a professor -- and especially a tenured one at that -- might want to put forth in his class. Is there no line of demarcation?
So, I guess it would then be allowed for Professor Liew to engage his students and have them actually recreate the scenes he depicts in his writings in his class, right? I mean, they are his interpretations of the Scripture and he is a man of faith as we are informed by Fr. Boroughs.
Academic freedom, right?
So while we are told that we need to forego the image of a knight because it might be deemed to be offensive to some in the community, we are told that we need to tolerate and accept vile, blasphemous interpretations of the key parts of Scripture that are the foundation of our faith under the umbrella of academic freedom.
Fr. Boroughs informs us that he knows Professor Liew to be a man of faith. I have never met a man of faith who interprets and writes of Scripture in such a perverted fashion.
This fight has just begun.
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Post by lou on Mar 30, 2018 8:25:51 GMT -5
Shhh. According to bringbackcaro, the professor was teaching this while 'nobody knew' - must have been a very small class! Does anyone know if these bizarre interpretations of the Gospels come up in this guy's class? Everything in the Fenwick article is about writings prior to HC. I'm not defending the guy, just curious You should read the statement from the school. Short answer, no
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Post by ncaam on Mar 30, 2018 9:43:08 GMT -5
From a friend....., Sign the Protest to Stop "Drag King" Blasphemy at Jesuit College - TFP Student Action www.tfpstudentaction.org/petitions/jesuit-college-drag-king-blasphemyI'm sharing with you in case you are as disappointed as I am with this latest slide into the muck by Holy Cross. I wish that I hadn't stopped donating a couple of years ago so that I could stop now.
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Post by alum on Mar 30, 2018 9:51:02 GMT -5
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Mar 30, 2018 9:54:43 GMT -5
So, we have to be tolerant of pervert theology, but intolerant of the crusader knight. Got it.
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Post by hc80 on Mar 30, 2018 10:22:16 GMT -5
According to alum, "Holy Cross is a college in the Catholic and Jesuit traditions. What many don't understand is that the "college" part is first and most important."
If this were the case, then why bother -- if the "college" as alum portrays it, trumps the Catholic and Jesuit tradition, then there is absolutely no reason for the institution to exist. The very reason for a Catholic institution is invalid if college is more important than Catholic. Why spend the money on something that is clearly less important. I am all for dialogue and challenging norms, endowed seats of professorship being granted to individuals that conjure up this drivel, I am not.
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Post by td128 on Mar 30, 2018 10:34:47 GMT -5
Galatians 6:7 Stop being deceived; God is not to be ridiculed. A person harvests whatever he plants:
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Post by Tom on Mar 30, 2018 10:44:00 GMT -5
Does anyone know if these bizarre interpretations of the Gospels come up in this guy's class? Everything in the Fenwick article is about writings prior to HC. I'm not defending the guy, just curious You should read the statement from the school. Short answer, no I read it, but thought it didn't really answer the question. I see that no one has complained. His writings were not intended for undergraduates and aren't assigned. I suppose I could infer that he doesn't discuss them in class because the school says his original target audience wasn't undergrad. I didn't think the school's statement ruled out the possibility that he was discussing this theory with students - perhaps as an opposing view to the class' texts
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Post by lou on Mar 30, 2018 10:54:54 GMT -5
You should read the statement from the school. Short answer, no I read it, but thought it didn't really answer the question. I see that no one has complained. His writings were not intended for undergraduates and aren't assigned. I suppose I could infer that he doesn't discuss them in class because the school says his original target audience wasn't undergrad. I didn't think the school's statement ruled out the possibility that he was discussing this theory with students - perhaps as an opposing view to the class' texts "It was an intentionally provocative work, not a statement of belief, meant to foster discussion among a small group of Biblical scholars exploring marginalization. No one has made a complaint about the content of Professor Liew’s classes in his four years at Holy Cross.”
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Post by nhteamer on Mar 30, 2018 10:55:24 GMT -5
Again alum, if this professor was on record as saying the earth was created by God in six days; if he said anything critical of Islam; if he said that abortion is the government sponsored murder of millions; if he said that there are two genders only, male and female HE WOULD BE GONE irrespective of the celebrated intellectual freedom of faculty Do you really think that is untrue? Quoting oneself not great
But, PLEASE Alum, 'Nurple, Spenser answer the above.
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Post by alum on Mar 30, 2018 11:02:35 GMT -5
Again alum, if this professor was on record as saying the earth was created by God in six days; if he said anything critical of Islam; if he said that abortion is the government sponsored murder of millions; if he said that there are two genders only, male and female HE WOULD BE GONE irrespective of the celebrated intellectual freedom of faculty Do you really think that is untrue? Quoting oneself not great
But, PLEASE Alum, 'Nurple, Spenser answer the above.
I did answer yesterday fifteen minutes after you asked the question and you asked me another question at 9:17 am yesterday and I answered your question from that one about the Wellesley professor.
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Post by hcpride on Mar 30, 2018 11:12:53 GMT -5
Sometime tomorrow the social justice/PC crew will begin attacking the hateful, intolerant, homophobic and anti-trans response to the professor’s writing. (Attempts to blame the messenger, the conservative news organizations, etc. having failed)
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Post by nhteamer on Mar 30, 2018 11:30:28 GMT -5
OK Alum you indeed did
Maybe I was just flummoxed that you said that said creationist, anti-Islamist, pro-lifer, gender limiter would be retained.
Come on...............zero chance.
Whatever, the Board is probably already bored by our back and forth
Happy Easter
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Post by spenser on Mar 30, 2018 11:49:03 GMT -5
Quoting oneself not great
But, PLEASE Alum, 'Nurple, Spenser answer the above.
I did answer yesterday fifteen minutes after you asked the question and you asked me another question at 9:17 am yesterday and I answered your question from that one about the Wellesley professor. And I just saw the question. Just so we are clear, I in now way agree with what this guy said. I find it repulsive. But the short answer to your question is he would not. He has tenure. Next to impossible to fire someone who has tenure. What I do have a problem with HC about is they apparently didn’t look at this guys background closely enough before they hired him.
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Post by ncaam on Mar 30, 2018 11:52:43 GMT -5
Perhaps Benny will do the right thing and step down
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