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Post by bringbackcaro on Jul 22, 2018 9:10:41 GMT -5
Bringing HC sports back to the "national consciousness" is a fool's errand. Whose crazy idea was this? A tiny coed school in Worcester with stringent admissions requirements? Why don't we start with something real, like dominating the PL? From Pine’s preposterous bio: “Since being named the school's eighth director of athletics on Dec. 17, 2013, Pine has quickly revitalized the athletics program and transformed the athletics culture on Mount St. James to put Holy Cross back into the national consciousness, while continuing to honor the academic mission of the College.” Another gem: “Pine has also orchestrated broader regional and national exposure for the College from television and marketing efforts, along with significant branding and alumni outreach. He has introduced a renewed sense of enthusiasm and excitement around athletics to Holy Cross along with a focused vision on improving the student-athlete experience, team and individual competitiveness and significant facility upgrades.” www.goholycross.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=33100&ATCLID=210237943
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Post by realism on Jul 22, 2018 9:38:25 GMT -5
Don't understand why some are bashing the upcoming schedule here -- especially after it was unanimously lauded a few years back when big name opponents were announced. If Chesney wins the league at 6-5 or 7-4 instead of 9-2 who cares? The games we NEED TO WIN haven't changed. I'm not bashing the upcoming schedules, I'm all for them actually. The problem is Gilmore should have been fired 3 or 4 years ago, not in midseason last year. A new coach should have had time to ramp up the program as we take on the BCs and Syracuses of the world. What's done is done but it does put Chesney in a tough spot i.e. revamping a program as it embarks on its toughest stretch of future schedules in decades. As the actual W-L results of the 2018 and 2019 seasons come in, the positive attribution to "The Chesney Era" will be channelled into two groups: 1. Those capable of discerning reasons for long-term optimism despite a continuation of the subpar W-L record. The surface W-L numbers will be no different than the last 6 years. 2. Those whose optimism has mistakenly expected immediate respectability, rather than a meticulous overhaul taking many years and requiring fan patience.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jul 22, 2018 9:49:40 GMT -5
Don't forget the third (small in numbers) group: those who will NOT be be happy no matter what the results are
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Post by hcpride on Jul 22, 2018 10:20:55 GMT -5
I'm not bashing the upcoming schedules, I'm all for them actually. The problem is Gilmore should have been fired 3 or 4 years ago, not in midseason last year. A new coach should have had time to ramp up the program as we take on the BCs and Syracuses of the world. What's done is done but it does put Chesney in a tough spot i.e. revamping a program as it embarks on its toughest stretch of future schedules in decades. As the W-L results of the 2018 and 2019 come in, the positive attribution to "The Chesney Era" will be channelled into two groups: 1. Those capable of discerning reasons for long-term optimism despite a continuation of the subpar W-L record. The surface W-L numbers will be no different than the last 6 years. 2. Those whose optimism has mistakenly expected immediate respectability, rather than a meticulous overhaul taking many years and requiring fan patience. Included in the second group are those who thought we were a talented team perhaps beset by poor coaching decisions and a few unlucky breaks. With a better coach and a few bounces our way that group doubtlessly thinks we’re looking at winning seasons. That group is baffled, if not chagrined, by a 4-7 prediction for next year. (A lot of that comes from a misread of arriving recruit quality the last three years.) (And on that topic of misreading general class-wide recruit quality, two years ago landing one 3-star QB skewed some class evaluations. Last year we back-ended the recruit period. I’ll leave it at that but I do put those as the last two Gilmore years).
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Post by hc87 on Jul 22, 2018 10:33:08 GMT -5
Bringing HC sports back to the "national consciousness" is a fool's errand. Whose crazy idea was this? A tiny coed school in Worcester with stringent admissions requirements? Why don't we start with something real, like dominating the PL? Another gem: “Pine has also orchestrated broader regional and national exposure for the College from television and marketing efforts, along with significant branding and alumni outreach. He has introduced a renewed sense of enthusiasm and excitement around athletics to Holy Cross along with a focused vision on improving the student-athlete experience, team and individual competitiveness and significant facility upgrades.” www.goholycross.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=33100&ATCLID=210237943I wouldn't disagree with this out of hand......like the subject of this thread though, the Pine-era has been mostly "hype" with rare on the court/field etc success so far.
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Post by hcpride on Jul 22, 2018 12:39:52 GMT -5
Bringing HC sports back to the "national consciousness" is a fool's errand. Whose crazy idea was this? A tiny coed school in Worcester with stringent admissions requirements? Why don't we start with something real, like dominating the PL? I think the premise is that in the 80’s we were in the ‘national consciousness’ (and tiny and in Worcester and with stringent admissions) so we can get back to that level of ‘national consciousness’. Of course the premise (and the goal BTW) may be pure purple-hued fantasy but that, at least, is the plan.
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Post by wheeler5 on Jul 22, 2018 13:22:32 GMT -5
Bringing HC sports back to the "national consciousness" is a fool's errand. Whose crazy idea was this? A tiny coed school in Worcester with stringent admissions requirements? Why don't we start with something real, like dominating the PL? I think the premise is that in the 80’s we were in the ‘national consciousness’ (and tiny and in Worcester and with stringent admissions) so we can get back to that level of ‘national consciousness’. Of course the premise (and the goal BTW) may be pure purple-hued fantasy but that, at least, is the plan. Good point, and I hope it happens. But the only reason we were in the National Consciousness was because of Gordie lockbaum's 2 Heisman nominations, a once-in-a-lifetime occurrence.
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Post by hchoops on Jul 22, 2018 13:26:55 GMT -5
And in hoops, a guy named Perry, and previously, Potter and Vicens
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Post by hc87 on Jul 22, 2018 13:35:56 GMT -5
I think the premise is that in the 80’s we were in the ‘national consciousness’ (and tiny and in Worcester and with stringent admissions) so we can get back to that level of ‘national consciousness’. Of course the premise (and the goal BTW) may be pure purple-hued fantasy but that, at least, is the plan. Good point, and I hope it happens. But the only reason we were in the National Consciousness was because of Gordie lockbaum's 2 Heisman nominations, a once-in-a-lifetime occurrence. True to an extent but we were in the "national consciousness" in the 1-AA world anyway, pre and post Gordie.
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Post by wheeler5 on Jul 22, 2018 13:50:46 GMT -5
Good point, and I hope it happens. But the only reason we were in the National Consciousness was because of Gordie lockbaum's 2 Heisman nominations, a once-in-a-lifetime occurrence. True to an extent but we were in the "national consciousness" in the 1-AA world anyway, pre and post Gordie. How did that happen? Because Holy Cross hired Rick Carter, not because of hype. I'm cheering for Bob Chesney to be the Patriot League Lou Saban, but let's see how early does first.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jul 22, 2018 16:19:05 GMT -5
True to an extent but we were in the "national consciousness" in the 1-AA world anyway, pre and post Gordie. How did that happen? Because Holy Cross hired Rick Carter, not because of hype. I'm cheering for Bob Chesney to be the Patriot League Lou Saban, but let's see how early does first. I'd prefer that he be the PL Nick Saban, but Lou wasn't a bad coach himself....
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Post by wheeler5 on Jul 22, 2018 17:29:01 GMT -5
How did that happen? Because Holy Cross hired Rick Carter, not because of hype. I'm cheering for Bob Chesney to be the Patriot League Lou Saban, but let's see how early does first. I'd prefer that he be the PL Nick Saban, but Lou wasn't a bad coach himself.... Haha... Showing my age!
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jul 22, 2018 17:50:25 GMT -5
"They're killing me, Whitey, they're killing me"!
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Post by WCHC Sports on Jul 23, 2018 16:05:02 GMT -5
Bringing HC sports back to the "national consciousness" is a fool's errand. Whose crazy idea was this? A tiny coed school in Worcester with stringent admissions requirements? Why don't we start with something real, like dominating the PL? “Pine has also orchestrated broader regional and national exposure for the College from television and marketing efforts, along with significant branding and alumni outreach. He has introduced a renewed sense of enthusiasm and excitement around athletics to Holy Cross along with a focused vision on improving the student-athlete experience, team and individual competitiveness and significant facility upgrades.” www.goholycross.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=33100&ATCLID=210237943The death of the Crusader happened on his watch. My father, somewhat plugged into the school but only because I was a student, just asked me yesterday: "Hey, do they have to change the name of your school now or something? I just heard yesterday. I'll bet those people voted for Hillary!" It shows a bit where his political stance is, but at the same time, shows just how stupid that whole thing was and how little the rest of the planet actually cares. PC police win! Anyway, HC social media overhypes a lot of what we do. Part of it is their job. I wish they were a little less tone deaf. Let's let the coach win a game or two before we call him the second coming of Vince Lombardi.
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Post by hcpride on Jul 23, 2018 16:20:22 GMT -5
I can see a potential problem for those that think we were a good team (with baffling back to back 4-7 seasons) with just a pinch of bad coaching and a dash of bad luck last year, fall for the HC Chesney hype machine and now look forward to finally seeing a winning season next year:
We open with Colgate (at Colgate) , BC (an ACC team), Yale (humiliated us last year) and therefore open up, in all likelihood, 0-3. In order to go 6-5 (a minimum winning season) we'd need to finish up 6-2. That seems very unlikely.
Then there are some who realize 4-7 (again) might actually indicate improvement if we place some young guys all-PL, avoid humiliating losses (like Yale last year) and grab a close one or two at the end.
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Post by hchoops on Jul 23, 2018 16:29:03 GMT -5
“Pine has also orchestrated broader regional and national exposure for the College from television and marketing efforts, along with significant branding and alumni outreach. He has introduced a renewed sense of enthusiasm and excitement around athletics to Holy Cross along with a focused vision on improving the student-athlete experience, team and individual competitiveness and significant facility upgrades.” www.goholycross.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=33100&ATCLID=210237943The death of the Crusader happened on his watch. My father, somewhat plugged into the school but only because I was a student, just asked me yesterday: "Hey, do they have to change the name of your school now or something? I just heard yesterday. I'll bet those people voted for Hillary!" It shows a bit where his political stance is, but at the same time, shows just how stupid that whole thing was and how little the rest of the planet actually cares. PC police win! There are far worse things going on than any PC police are involved with.
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Post by cmo on Jul 23, 2018 18:07:19 GMT -5
I can see a potential problem for those that think we were a good team (with baffling back to back 4-7 seasons) with just a pinch of bad coaching and a dash of bad luck last year, fall for the HC Chesney hype machine and now look forward to finally seeing a winning season next year: We open with Colgate (at Colgate) , BC (an ACC team), Yale (humiliated us last year) and therefore open up, in all likelihood, 0-3. In order to go 6-5 (a minimum winning season) we'd need to finish up 6-2. That seems very unlikely. Then there are some who realize 4-7 (again) might actually indicate improvement if we place some young guys all-PL, avoid humiliating losses (like Yale last year) and grab a close one or two at the end. Will the 1st group be calling it "the Chesney Error"? Or "Errah" 😃
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 23, 2018 18:10:47 GMT -5
Fr. B. didn't get the message. The title of his epistle at the front of the latest issue of the Holy Cross magazine is ":......past, present, and future Crusaders."
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Post by sader1970 on Jul 23, 2018 19:09:19 GMT -5
I can hardly wait to get it. I am betting, though, that Fr. B is mum on both the Crusader logo/mascot and Professor Liew. Didn't know that some Jesuits have taken a vow of silence.
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Post by hchoops on Jul 23, 2018 19:18:05 GMT -5
I believe that he has made statements on both issues
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Post by sader1970 on Jul 23, 2018 19:33:07 GMT -5
Well, the first part of the schedule is definitely the toughest but how we start does not dictate how the full season will play out unless we get decimated by injuries. I am not of the school of thought that playing BC automatically means the big, tough Eagles will hurt our little players.
We were not a "good team" last year for sure. By that I mean the whole did not play as well as the sum of its parts. There was absolutely no synergy for whatever reason. We were not out-talented by any team except Colgate and that includes Yale. For some reason, our team simply did not show up for that game.
I believe my prediction earlier was for 5-6 this season. BC and Harvard will be sure losses. Probably Colgate (even in a good year, we are snakebit in Hamilton). Perhaps Yale too is a loss but we are playing them in Worcester (finally!) and take a look at how 2 years ago we were humiliated at Yankee Stadium against Fordham, only to trounce the Rams last year, and that was a "bad year" for us. No way was Yale a 32 point better team than us. Dartmouth this year will be payback for us. You would think UNH would be a loss and probably will be up in Durham, but did anyone think we could beat them last season when they were ranked #9? They will be looking for payback up at their place but I plan on going to that game and we often are able to play them tough.
The team underperformed last season without question. I think realistically we will go 5-6 and possibly a winning record with some good luck. I don't think we will see any games under Chesney where the guys don't fight from start to finish.
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Post by hcpride on Jul 24, 2018 11:50:15 GMT -5
We were not a "good team" last year for sure. By that I mean the whole did not play as well as the sum of its parts. There was absolutely no synergy for whatever reason. We were not out-talented by any team except Colgate and that includes Yale. For some reason, our team simply did not show up for that game. The team underperformed last season without question. I think realistically we will go 5-6 and possibly a winning record with some good luck. I don't think we will see any games under Chesney where the guys don't fight from start to finish. Yale was absolutely loaded with talent last year. They've been recruiting like crazy and had a tremendous talent-advantage over us. (BTW they finished 9-1, whipped up on many of their opponents (including PL Champ Lehigh) and had very little trouble with Harvard in The Game (24-3). (It is also true that it looked like we gave up v Yale and it is also true Yale humiliated us via their mercy move). Not to pile on but you may be unaware of the P-5 recruits they land (read about just 3 of the newest frosh P-5 steals here...one is Trenton Charles [turned down Arizona. Northwestern, and TCU and runs a 10.44 100M and a legit 4.39] who'll compete for backup to last year's Frosh All American Dudek: www.nhregister.com/colleges/article/Incoming-Yale-football-recruiting-class-filled-12894919.php ) As noted earlier, some fans think we had the talent but were tripped up by coaching and some bad bounces. Others note our talent deficit (v some of our opposition) exacerbated by some poor coaching/player synergy and bad luck. (Note, this is NOT to say talent always wins games)
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jul 24, 2018 15:37:48 GMT -5
Yale's talent??? Yale freshman Zane Dudek ran 159 times last season for 1133 yards (7.1 yds/att) and 15 TD. With good health, he looks to be capable of breaking all of Yale's career rushing records. The 7.1 yards/attempt is a single season record. Thankfully he only rushed the ball 4 times against us last year but that resulted in TD's of 21 & 22 yards.
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Post by hcpride on Jul 24, 2018 15:46:57 GMT -5
Yale's talent??? Yale freshman Zane Dudek ran 159 times last season for 1133 yards (7.1 yds/att) and 15 TD. With good health, he looks to be capable of breaking all of Yale's career rushing records. The 7.1 yards/attempt is a single season record. Thankfully he only rushed the ball 4 times against us last year but that resulted in TD's of 21 & 22 yards. They may be one even better this year: Trenton Charles [turned down Arizona. Northwestern, and TCU and runs a 10.44 100M and a legit 4.39] who'll compete for backup to last year's Frosh All American Dudek: www.nhregister.com/colleges/article/Incoming-Yale-football-recruiting-class-filled-12894919.php ) It gets even worse for Yale's opponents since the 2-star RB who was second team all Ivy two years ago (Lamar) and was out injured all last season (and replaced by Dudek) is back.
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Post by hc87 on Jul 24, 2018 18:12:33 GMT -5
Yale's talent??? Yale freshman Zane Dudek ran 159 times last season for 1133 yards (7.1 yds/att) and 15 TD. With good health, he looks to be capable of breaking all of Yale's career rushing records. The 7.1 yards/attempt is a single season record. Thankfully he only rushed the ball 4 times against us last year but that resulted in TD's of 21 & 22 yards. They may be one even better this year: Trenton Charles [turned down Arizona. Northwestern, and TCU and runs a 10.44 100M and a legit 4.39] who'll compete for backup to last year's Frosh All American Dudek: www.nhregister.com/colleges/article/Incoming-Yale-football-recruiting-class-filled-12894919.php ) It gets even worse for Yale's opponents since the 2-star RB who was second team all Ivy two years ago (Lamar) and was out injured all last season (and replaced by Dudek) is back. We should just cancel the game now.... All kidding aside, historically our futility against the Eli is amazing. No other school has had our # (W-L wise) like Yale has.
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