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Post by hc87 on Dec 12, 2018 11:07:11 GMT -5
It's really not "rocket science"...while pp makes some good points as always....the alpha&omega on why we don't have much local support, media presence etc. for basketball and football today is league affiliation.
Granted, it's not the only reason: media overkill, changing lifestyles, changes in Woo's demo etc. etc. have also cut into HC fandom locally.
Out of curiosity, does anyone know what % today of HC students are commuters? There was still a presence of them in my day in the 1980s and I know they were a much bigger % ("day-hops") in my Dad's days in the 1940s. The loss of that local connection, as pointed out here, has hurt HC's athletic local support imo
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Post by Tom on Dec 12, 2018 12:24:35 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, does anyone know what % today of HC students are commuters? There was still a presence of them in my day in the 1980s and I know they were a much bigger % ("day-hops") in my Dad's days in the 1940s. The loss of that local connection, as pointed out here, has hurt HC's athletic local support imo Exceedingly small. The Montserat program for the freshmen has a community aspect to it, to the point your Montserrat concentration helps decide what dorm you're in. There are still Worcester County kids at the school, they just live on campus instead of commuting. You might actually need permission to commute just like any other student needs permission to be off campus in an apartment
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Dec 12, 2018 13:06:27 GMT -5
With respect to Holy Cross and Worcester, the early editions (late 1970's) of the Yale newspaper's Insiders Guide to Colleges made particular reference (at the top of the descriptive narrative) to HC having fenced itself off from Worcester, the implication being that students at HC didn't have to deal with Worcester. That was the perception forty years ago. More so on the old board than the present one, when a thread mentioned that the city of Worcester was proposing having colleges make voluntary payments in lieu of taxes (called PILT or PILOT) howls of protest from posters ensued. Worcester city has a population of 185,000. roughly 140,000 are ages 25 or older. Thirty percent of those 25 or older have a baccalaureate degree, or about 40,000 people. HC's alumni base is about 38,000, I daresay that if ten percent of the HC alumni base lives in Worcester County, that would be really remarkable. But for the sake of argument, let's assume five percent of the HC alumni base lives in Worcester city, or about 2,000 alumni. That also means there are 38,000 graduates of other colleges and universities living in Worcester city who have little or no affiliation or association with Holy Cross. Why would any of these 38,000 find themselves at Fitton Field, the Hart, or the DCU, cheering for HC?For the first half of the 20th Century, Worcester was a blue collar town, so lacking any educational affinity with any of Worcester's colleges and universities, these blue collar workers gravitated to supporting HC athletic programs. And in that era, college football and basketball had more appeal than their professional counterparts. Like GKS said - this line of thinking absolutely preposterous.
There are many graduates of schools other than HC (myself included) who attend HC games and have for decades. and attend a LOT more games than most graduates, or current students attend. You are completely out of touch, yet float this exact same thing multiple times every year for who knows why.
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Post by sader81 on Dec 12, 2018 14:08:56 GMT -5
Pakachoag Phreek said: I became a UConn basketball fan in the mid 70's because Joey Whelton was from my hometown. I went to HS and was friends with both Tony Hansen and Jimmy Abromaitis. I still hate UConn.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 12, 2018 16:14:06 GMT -5
..... Out of curiosity, does anyone know what % today of HC students are commuters? There was still a presence of them in my day in the 1980s and I know they were a much bigger % ("day-hops") in my Dad's days in the 1940s. The loss of that local connection, as pointed out here, has hurt HC's athletic local support imo In the class of 400 that entered in September 1941, I counted 56 from the city of Worcester, and nine from Boston (includes Dorchester, Jamaica Plain West Roxbury). Seven from all of Rhode Island. college.holycross.edu/departments/archives/exhibits/crusader/crusader_pages/Fall1941.htmlThe Crusader / Spire was still called the Tomahawk back then. The banner headline for the issue with the freshmen enrollment was about the reception that awaited the football team as they got off the train after a road victory. According to the Tomahawk, the crowd numbered 30,000. The win was over a certain school in Baton Rouge.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 12, 2018 18:08:00 GMT -5
Mm67,
Only a consistent winner will bring the following back. During the Milan Brown and Bill Carmody eras, Holy Cross has lost its identity as a "basketball school" to the point where students not in the band or on the football team dont even come to games anymore.
This sophomore class will be involved in writing the script that makes us relevant again. As far as basketball tradition is concerned, we've basically turned into Lafayette.
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 12, 2018 18:33:50 GMT -5
IMHO, to truly become "Worcester's Team," there are a number of things that have to happen:
1. Crusader teams have to win. Consistently. Not the occasional upset. Wins must be like money in the bank. 2. There has to be greater outreach to the community. The teams do a lot of volunteer work. These events need to be on more than a Holy Cross website. Should be stories in the T&G and on local TV. There needs to be more advertising including billboards on 290 and elsewhere like "Friartown" billboards around Providence for PC. 3. Admission prices need to be lowered. We aren't the ACC, SEC, Big East. Pack the house (Fitton & Hart). We are already losing money. Why have a strategy of losing money and having no one in the stands? Let's try to get at least one. 4. Have "appreciate Worcester" events, with even lower prices or (gasp) free. Try that at Fitton first. We have plenty of room. 5. Lower prices on Holy Cross gear. Don't load in a profit margin. Break even and get the good publicity of people walking around Worcester county with purple. 6. Consider, just consider, bringing back the Crusader mascot. Kids love Iggy, if not the name.
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Post by trimster on Dec 12, 2018 19:35:50 GMT -5
IMHO, to truly become "Worcester's Team," there are a number of things that have to happen: 1. Crusader teams have to win. Consistently. Not the occasional upset. Wins must be like money in the bank. 2. There has to be greater outreach to the community. The teams do a lot of volunteer work. These events need to be on more than a Holy Cross website. Should be stories in the T&G and on local TV. There needs to be more advertising including billboards on 290 and elsewhere like "Friartown" billboards around Providence for PC. 3. Admission prices need to be lowered. We aren't the ACC, SEC, Big East. Pack the house (Fitton & Hart). We are already losing money. Why have a strategy of losing money and having no one in the stands? Let's try to get at least one. 4. Have "appreciate Worcester" events, with even lower prices or (gasp) free. Try that at Fitton first. We have plenty of room. 5. Lower prices on Holy Cross gear. Don't load in a profit margin. Break even and get the good publicity of people walking around Worcester county with purple. 6. Consider, just consider, bringing back the Crusader mascot. Kids love Iggy, if not the name. All good suggestions although I doubt #6 will happen. I went to one football game last fall and was shocked that General Admission tickets were $18.00. That seems like a lot of money to watch Ivy and Patriot football from an end zone seat. I think $10.00 for an end zone seat would be more appropriate.
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Post by thecrossisback on Dec 12, 2018 20:04:32 GMT -5
I like the community stuff. Cheaper tickets is a must! PROMOTE PROMOTE AND PROMOTE SOME MORE I think a lot of people don't even know that a college football team plays in this area on Saturdays. Winning will help, New Stadiums? For football Night games
At least 1000 students should go to a Football game. It seems you are lucky to get 100.
I give the basketball team all the credit, saw them at the BC game the Harvard game and multiple home games. Hopefully football returns the favor.
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Post by bikeman on Dec 12, 2018 21:05:39 GMT -5
80% of the equation is league affiliation. Join the Big East, sell 4000 season tickets the next day. DCU crowds average 8000. No brainer except the Big East wont invite us.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Dec 12, 2018 21:18:00 GMT -5
IMHO, to truly become "Worcester's Team," there are a number of things that have to happen: 1. Crusader teams have to win. Consistently. Not the occasional upset. Wins must be like money in the bank. 2. There has to be greater outreach to the community. The teams do a lot of volunteer work. These events need to be on more than a Holy Cross website. Should be stories in the T&G and on local TV. There needs to be more advertising including billboards on 290 and elsewhere like "Friartown" billboards around Providence for PC. 3. Admission prices need to be lowered. We aren't the ACC, SEC, Big East. Pack the house (Fitton & Hart). We are already losing money. Why have a strategy of losing money and having no one in the stands? Let's try to get at least one. 4. Have "appreciate Worcester" events, with even lower prices or (gasp) free. Try that at Fitton first. We have plenty of room. 5. Lower prices on Holy Cross gear. Don't load in a profit margin. Break even and get the good publicity of people walking around Worcester county with purple. 6. Consider, just consider, bringing back the Crusader mascot. Kids love Iggy, if not the name. All good suggestions although I doubt #6 will happen. I went to one football game last fall and was shocked that General Admission tickets were $18.00. That seems like a lot of money to watch Ivy and Patriot football from an end zone seat. I think $10.00 for an end zone seat would be more appropriate. "General admission" means you can sit anywhere there is an open seat, which it at HC means plenty. No one has been forced to sit in the end zone for 30 years.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 12, 2018 21:22:04 GMT -5
I like the community stuff. Cheaper tickets is a must! PROMOTE PROMOTE AND PROMOTE SOME MORE I think a lot of people don't even know that a college football team plays in this area on Saturdays. Winning will help, New Stadiums? For football Night games At least 1000 students should go to a Football game. It seems you are lucky to get 100. I give the basketball team all the credit, saw them at the BC game the Harvard game and multiple home games. Hopefully football returns the favor. Spot on regarding students — on the average home football Saturday, Dinand Library has more students in it than Fitton. Allow alcohol consumption at games. Permanent lights need to happen somehow. Ticket prices IMO are fine. I can bring my dad or girlfriend and spend under 30 bucks for two tickets to a Division I sporting event. Better quality concessions is where I would focus and of course promoting as you stated above.
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Post by hcgrad94 on Dec 12, 2018 21:25:01 GMT -5
IMHO, to truly become "Worcester's Team," there are a number of things that have to happen: 1. Crusader teams have to win. Consistently. Not the occasional upset. Wins must be like money in the bank. 2. There has to be greater outreach to the community. The teams do a lot of volunteer work. These events need to be on more than a Holy Cross website. Should be stories in the T&G and on local TV. There needs to be more advertising including billboards on 290 and elsewhere like "Friartown" billboards around Providence for PC. 3. Admission prices need to be lowered. We aren't the ACC, SEC, Big East. Pack the house (Fitton & Hart). We are already losing money. Why have a strategy of losing money and having no one in the stands? Let's try to get at least one. 4. Have "appreciate Worcester" events, with even lower prices or (gasp) free. Try that at Fitton first. We have plenty of room. 5. Lower prices on Holy Cross gear. Don't load in a profit margin. Break even and get the good publicity of people walking around Worcester county with purple. 6. Consider, just consider, bringing back the Crusader mascot. Kids love Iggy, if not the name. They already do most of this stuff.
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 12, 2018 21:45:21 GMT -5
IMHO, to truly become "Worcester's Team," there are a number of things that have to happen: 1. Crusader teams have to win. Consistently. (Nope) Not the occasional upset. Wins must be like money in the bank. 2. There has to be greater outreach to the community. The teams do a lot of volunteer work. These events need to be on more than a Holy Cross website. Should be stories in the T&G and on local TV. There needs to be more advertising including billboards on 290 and elsewhere like "Friartown" billboards around Providence for PC. (Nope)3. Admission prices need to be lowered. (Nope) We aren't the ACC, SEC, Big East. Pack the house (Fitton & Hart). We are already losing money. Why have a strategy of losing money and having no one in the stands? Let's try to get at least one. 4. Have "appreciate Worcester" events, with even lower prices or (gasp) free. (Nope) Try that at Fitton first. We have plenty of room. 5. Lower prices on Holy Cross gear. (Nope) Don't load in a profit margin. Break even and get the good publicity of people walking around Worcester county with purple. 6. Consider, just consider, bringing back the Crusader mascot. (Nope) Kids love Iggy, if not the name. They already do most of this stuff. Really? Which ones?
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Dec 12, 2018 22:00:38 GMT -5
GA squats for the Siena game are just 2 bucks.
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Post by DiMarz on Dec 12, 2018 22:06:13 GMT -5
Way back in 1974, my first season with season tickets, I believe there were about 326 fans at the home opener in Auditorium...As the season moved on, the HC team kept winning games, night in and night out..By the time the season was nearing its end, the good old Aud was sold out (including Little Theater) every game..Yes, this was the beginning of a great run by Holy Cross. Moving to the Hart Center the next season and selling out the season I think....Win, win some more and they will come....In those days the Worcester Gazette (the eveining version of the Telegram) ran a story about the HC game that was scheduled for the next night...The Telegram ran a story about the game the day of the game and both papers ran stories about the outcome of the game...Today, rarely anything promoting the game, and one story covering the game....We just don't have that kind of exposure any more...Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, today's fans just don't have the "want" to read a "long" piece, it's all a quick splash and forget it ...
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 13, 2018 7:59:04 GMT -5
DiMarz is spot on about the challenge in trying to reach the general population of Worcester. The T&G is no longer locally-owned, many of the editorial staff are in Austin TX, circulation has plummeted. HC gets no play on Boston broadcast media. The Herald (recently sold to a company in Denver) is in the tank (daily circulation down to 40,000), and the Globe, for all practical purposes, has ceased covering New England college sports other than BC. And a fair question, how much of BC's media coverage in the Globe results from its promotional contract with Fenway Sports Management? bceagles.com/sports/2015/9/29/BC_0929154807.aspxSo in this day and age, how exactly would HC get a message out to the good citizens of Worcester that the men's basketball team is 10-0 and headed for a great season? ________________________________ By and large, those living in New England don't appear to give a hoot about college hoops. Ranked average attendance 2017-18 men's basketball, New England states, plus Westchester, Duchess, Bronx, and Manhattan. Providence 9547 UConn 7829 URI 6216 BC 5190 UMass 2994 Vermont 2929 Holy Cross 1647 Iona 1637 Columbia 1587 Fordham 1566 Quinnipiac 1547 Harvard 1511 CCSU 1428 Hartford 1408 Fairfield 1347 Yale 1306 Marist 1224 Northeastern 1142 UMass Lowell 1119 Manhattan 1094 Maine 1028 Brown 882 Dartmouth 868 BU 694 Bryant 634 UNH 481 Sacred Heart 442 With respect to the total number of undergraduates, HC, Iona, and Manhattan have similar numbers (about 3100) and are at the bottom of the list. The total average attendance of all these schools wouldn't fill Gillette stadium.
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Post by ndgradbuthcfan on Dec 13, 2018 8:55:01 GMT -5
I like the community stuff. Cheaper tickets is a must! PROMOTE PROMOTE AND PROMOTE SOME MORE I think a lot of people don't even know that a college football team plays in this area on Saturdays. Winning will help, New Stadiums? For football Night games At least 1000 students should go to a Football game. It seems you are lucky to get 100. I give the basketball team all the credit, saw them at the BC game the Harvard game and multiple home games. Hopefully football returns the favor. It is inconceivable to me that more students are not supporting this basketball team. The team is very good and fun to watch. Maybe that walk up the hill is too daunting. When I lived in Worcester, I attended almost every game and I am not a HC grad.
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 13, 2018 9:30:04 GMT -5
IMHO, to truly become "Worcester's Team," there are a number of things that have to happen: 1. Crusader teams have to win. Consistently. Not the occasional upset. Wins must be like money in the bank. 2. There has to be greater outreach to the community. The teams do a lot of volunteer work. These events need to be on more than a Holy Cross website. Should be stories in the T&G and on local TV. There needs to be more advertising including billboards on 290 and elsewhere like "Friartown" billboards around Providence for PC. 3. Admission prices need to be lowered. We aren't the ACC, SEC, Big East. Pack the house (Fitton & Hart). We are already losing money. Why have a strategy of losing money and having no one in the stands? Let's try to get at least one. 4. Have "appreciate Worcester" events, with even lower prices or (gasp) free. Try that at Fitton first. We have plenty of room. 5. Lower prices on Holy Cross gear. Don't load in a profit margin. Break even and get the good publicity of people walking around Worcester county with purple. 6. Consider, just consider, bringing back the Crusader mascot. Kids love Iggy, if not the name. They already do most of this stuff. Ibelive they do #2, but do not seriously do any on the others (yet).
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 13, 2018 10:09:41 GMT -5
The Boston U number, as we have discussed previously, is extraordinary.
I think Americans are increasingly celebrity obsessed and marquee event focused. Maybe HC could promote that the second cousin of the chauffeur for the Kardashians was going to be at the game so we could draw more fans? Solid basketball being played by your classmates just can't compete with that.
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Post by rf1 on Dec 13, 2018 10:14:12 GMT -5
Worth noting that the top 3 average attendance schools (PC/UConn/URI) are located in states that have no major pro teams and also have multiple media outlets (tv and print) which, with the absence of major pro teams, more heavily cover college and minor league sports teams.
All sports teams in Worcester are at a disadvantage, not just Holy Cross. There is no local tv and the local print media influence is very much waning. Boston outlets are not going to cover Worcester sports with all the major pro sports teams in and around the city. The Sharks specifically mentioned no local tv as being a detriment to success in Worcester. It is something that the Woosox are going to have find ways to work around. This issue hurts the Cross as well. Got to find other ways to reach the local population.
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Post by joe on Dec 13, 2018 10:16:57 GMT -5
I like the community stuff. Cheaper tickets is a must! PROMOTE PROMOTE AND PROMOTE SOME MORE I think a lot of people don't even know that a college football team plays in this area on Saturdays. Winning will help, New Stadiums? For football Night games At least 1000 students should go to a Football game. It seems you are lucky to get 100. I give the basketball team all the credit, saw them at the BC game the Harvard game and multiple home games. Hopefully football returns the favor. It is inconceivable to me that more students are not supporting this basketball team. The team is very good and fun to watch. Maybe that walk up the hill is too daunting. When I lived in Worcester, I attended almost every game and I am not a HC grad. And I’m just spitballing here but quite a few of them have their own practices and games given the small enrollment and number of varsity athletes. Some don’t care about athletics and are not impressed with athletes. Some see no social reason to attend. Many are up to the ears in school work. And yes, some are too lazy to walk up the hill in the cold when the warm glow of an iPhone is close by. Continued winning will help and a home game for the PL Championship will turn the tide.
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Post by purplehaze on Dec 13, 2018 10:23:45 GMT -5
As in college football, attendance figures for basketball tend to be inflated. It's a matter of do you want to publish an accurate number or an inaccurate one. I watch enough HC games to know that our announced attendance is exaggerated
someone I know was at the Fordham-NJIT game this week and said maybe 400 were there. Fordham's box scrore showed 1766.
my point is that the figures in PPhreek's post for the low-mid major schools are inflated (even for BU !). Schools are just trying to show a 'good face' . And if you say that the schools are publishing 'sold' tickets when people don't show up, I don't believe that either.
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Post by bison137 on Dec 13, 2018 10:31:04 GMT -5
. As far as basketball tradition is concerned, we've basically turned into Lafayette. Lafayette fans might point out that since Fran O'Hanlon took over as coach (1995), they have actually outdrawn Holy Cross in attendance - despite having a significantly worse overall record. If you start the count with the day Ralph Willard took over, LC still has the attendance edge for that entire time period. Considering the many years of bad basketball, LC has had a good group of core fans.
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Post by bison137 on Dec 13, 2018 10:36:44 GMT -5
my point is that the figures in PPhreek's post for the low-mid major schools are inflated (even for BU !). Schools are just trying to show a 'good face' . And if you say that the schools are publishing 'sold' tickets when people don't show up, I don't believe that either. It's probably not true for every school, but I believe that many are indeed showing sold tickets. There are a number of people who buy season tickets at midmajors where the price is cheap, but don't show up for a lot of the games. How accurate the count is probably comes down to whether they have an accurate way to track student attendance. I know that Bucknell over the last decade has given an accurate count of tickets sold. In most recent years, there have been about 1700 season tickets, so that sets the floor. At its peak, season ticket sales were well over 2000.
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