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Post by rickii on Jan 25, 2019 10:45:15 GMT -5
Here is the interview from last night: www.facebook.com/GoHolyCross/videos/1650721721894057/Despite the smoke and mirrors from Pine and his lap dogs, we have not had a team finish with a winning record since the Spring of 2016 (that's over two full academic years) and the athletic program is in need of a leader who actually understands sports and is capable of conducting an overhaul that will actually position our teams to win.I would be very interested to hear what in that interview may have caused anyone to come away thinking, "that's the type of guy who can turn an athletic program around." #1, by inference, would this be your opinion that Nate Pine did not understand sports ? If so, it follows that you think the Air Force Academy has made a huge blunder, correct ?
#2, by inference, is it your opinion that all of the administrative and campus/community culture changes that Pine orchestrated - which had NOT occurred for 30+ years - were not in concert with the 10-year plan for athletics ?
#3, If you've been paying attention, Colgate - a near image of HC in size and academics, has been annually out spending HC on athletics for over 10-12 years. Why don't you pen a note to our President and ask why that has been and continues to be the case ?
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 25, 2019 11:04:33 GMT -5
Here is the interview from last night: www.facebook.com/GoHolyCross/videos/1650721721894057/Despite the smoke and mirrors from Pine and his lap dogs, we have not had a team finish with a winning record since the Spring of 2016 (that's over two full academic years) and the athletic program is in need of a leader who actually understands sports and is capable of conducting an overhaul that will actually position our teams to win.I would be very interested to hear what in that interview may have caused anyone to come away thinking, "that's the type of guy who can turn an athletic program around." #1, by inference, would this be your opinion that Nate Pine did not understand sports ? If so, it follows that you think the Air Force Academy has made a huge blunder, correct ?
#2, by inference, is it your opinion that all of the administrative and campus/community culture changes that Pine orchestrated - which had NOT occurred for 30+ years - were not in concert with the 10-year plan for athletics ?
#3, If you've been paying attention, Colgate - a near image of HC in size and academics, has been annually out spending HC on athletics for over 10-12 years. Why don't you pen a note to our President and ask why that has been and continues to be the case ?
#1) Yes. Look at the results of the coaches who he hired -- it's a total disaster. We have not had a team finish with a winning record in nearly 2.5 years (Spring 2016). That's a remarkable feat. One of his last acts as AD was giving a contract extension to the Men's Hockey coach who is now 6-21-3 in his last 30 games, and has a total record of 1-8 in the postseason (including 0-6 the last three years). #2) I repeat, we have not had a team finish with a winning record in nearly 2.5 years. Some "winning culture" that is. #3) If the President needs a note from an alum to realize that Colgate is spending more than us on athletics, that is a massive problem on its own. He has been on the job at HC for nearly 8 years - if he was actually going to do something to catch up to Colgate and others it would have happened by now. If there is actually a 10-year plan for athletics, I would love to see it.
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Post by gks on Jan 25, 2019 11:06:38 GMT -5
#1, by inference, would this be your opinion that Nate Pine did not understand sports ? If so, it follows that you think the Air Force Academy has made a huge blunder, correct ?
#2, by inference, is it your opinion that all of the administrative and campus/community culture changes that Pine orchestrated - which had NOT occurred for 30+ years - were not in concert with the 10-year plan for athletics ?
#3, If you've been paying attention, Colgate - a near image of HC in size and academics, has been annually out spending HC on athletics for over 10-12 years. Why don't you pen a note to our President and ask why that has been and continues to be the case ?
#1) Yes. Look at the results of the coaches who he hired -- it's a total disaster. We have not had a team finish with a winning record in nearly 2.5 years (Spring 2016). That's a remarkable feat. One of his last acts as AD was giving a contract extension to the Men's Hockey coach who is now 6-21-3 in his last 30 games, and has a total record of 1-8 in the postseason (including 0-6 the last three years). #2) I repeat, we have not had a team finish with a winning record in nearly 2.5 years. Some "winning culture" that is. #3) If the President needs a note from an alum to realize that Colgate is spending more than us on athletics, that is a massive problem on its own. He has been on the job at HC for nearly 8 years - if he was actually going to do something to catch up to Colgate and others it would have happened by now. If there is actually a 10-year plan for athletics, I would love to see it. #3 is the major problem here. I firmly believe that the HC President has no clue nor cares about athletics.
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Post by HC92 on Jan 26, 2019 5:56:22 GMT -5
Besides football, I don’t know that any of our sports teams is in an appreciably better spot today than it was when Pine arrived. I think he made a lot of positive changes around marketing and promotions re: HC athletics but we need to actually win. We have some of the best athletic facilities in the country at our level. There needs to be some accountability for the results on the field somewhere. Of course, I do not think Fr. B is the right man for his job so I’d rather not have him picking the next AD.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jan 26, 2019 7:52:04 GMT -5
#3, If you've been paying attention, Colgate - a near image of HC in size and academics, has been annually out spending HC on athletics for over 10-12 years. Why don't you pen a note to our President and ask why that has been and continues to be the case ?
Re #3 Don't be hasty in writing to Fr B. with this complaint else he replies with a cry of 'poor scholarship'. HC / Colgate total spending on athletics past seven years. Year 16-17 HC +$5.9M 15-16 HC +$2.6M 14-15 HC +$2.4M 13-14 HC +$1.0M 12-13 HC +$2.5M 11-12 Colgate +$0.8M 10-11 Colgate +$0.3M
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Post by crusader12 on Jan 26, 2019 8:51:42 GMT -5
Besides football, I don’t know that any of our sports teams is in an appreciably better spot today than it was when Pine arrived. I think he made a lot of positive changes around marketing and promotions re: HC athletics but we need to actually win. We have some of the best athletic facilities in the country at our level. There needs to be some accountability for the results on the field somewhere. Of course, I do not think Fr. B is the right man for his job so I’d rather not have him picking the next AD. Agreed. I would hope his days are numbered as President.
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Pine out?
Jan 26, 2019 8:55:18 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 26, 2019 8:55:18 GMT -5
Besides football, I don’t know that any of our sports teams is in an appreciably better spot today than it was when Pine arrived. I think he made a lot of positive changes around marketing and promotions re: HC athletics but we need to actually win. We have some of the best athletic facilities in the country at our level. There needs to be some accountability for the results on the field somewhere. Of course, I do not think Fr. B is the right man for his job so I’d rather not have him picking the next AD. In agreement across the board.
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Post by efg72 on Jan 27, 2019 11:18:07 GMT -5
The only AD I can remember that wasn't personable was VIncent Dougherty. At least, I think he wasn't. He kept an incredibly low profile. He resigned start of second semester my junior year. I had no clue who he was when I started college and no clue when he left. Only heard one radio interview with him in that time as well. I think he was AD when I arrived on campus. Wasn't he the ex-FBI agent? He was a former FBI agent
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Post by timholycross on Jan 27, 2019 19:13:29 GMT -5
I think he was AD when I arrived on campus. Wasn't he the ex-FBI agent? He was a former FBI agent Yes, you are both right. Don't remember anything about him in terms of he being a former athlete or coach; he was an alumnus I'm pretty sure.
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Post by efg72 on Jan 27, 2019 19:32:11 GMT -5
He was, if I remember correctly, a member of the class of 37 and very close to Bob Maheu (both in the same class). For the younger poster he was Howard Hughes lawyer after serving with the FBI and CIA. Bob was close to my father in law and when I was an investigator for the Senate Intelligence Committee spent many hours with him discussing Cuba, Castro, the mob and the Kennedy Assassination-and in our free moments Holy Cross
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 12, 2019 13:27:39 GMT -5
Tomorrow will mark two months since it was announced that Pine was leaving for Air Force, and based on the following link, it does not look like the AD job has even been posted yet: holycross.interviewexchange.com/static/clients/17HC1/index.jspIs there another place where the listing would exist, or is everyone completely asleep in Fenwick?
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Feb 12, 2019 13:40:43 GMT -5
With impending hires needing to be made (women's basketball, men's lacrosse...is Peter Burke going to get the "Interim" tag lifted?), one would hope that Fr. B is interviewing candidates for the AD job.
Speaking of which, do we really want Fr. B making a hire like this?
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Pine out?
Feb 12, 2019 14:15:39 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by sader1970 on Feb 12, 2019 14:15:39 GMT -5
So, 2 months w/o a permanent AD?
Fr. B said there was “no rush” to replace him. Not sure if that is to save money or because he believes Brendan can handle the job well enough in his acting capacity. He DID suspend Gibbons.
From my prior post: “Fr. B was interviewed at halftime of the women's bb game by our classmate "Pete Royce" (his stage name!). Since I was in the Hart, I did not listen to Emmauel radio but saw him doing the interview. No tape of the interview. I asked him how that went and he said Fr. B told him they had the farewell party for Nate last night. I asked, since many of us were curious, when Nate's last day was. Since the interview was literally done on the fly and arranged hastily a few moments before the actual interview, Pete might not have been as prepared as he might have otherwise been and said that he never asked when final day for NP was. If my memory is correct believe Pete also said Fr. B indicated they were in "no hurry" to fill the position which would seem to match your prior post. I believe he expressed that Brendan Sullivan has things under control which gives them the luxury of time. I know that at least one poster thinks Brendan will be Nate's successor and if Fr. B is leaning that way, that would also take a lot of pressure off naming anyone soon.”
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 12, 2019 15:17:20 GMT -5
So, 2 months w/o a permanent AD? Fr. B said there was “no rush” to replace him. Not sure if that is to save money or because he believes Brendan can handle the job well enough in his acting capacity. He DID suspend Gibbons. From my prior post: “Fr. B was interviewed at halftime of the women's bb game by our classmate "Pete Royce" (his stage name!). Since I was in the Hart, I did not listen to Emmauel radio but saw him doing the interview. No tape of the interview. I asked him how that went and he said Fr. B told him they had the farewell party for Nate last night. I asked, since many of us were curious, when Nate's last day was. Since the interview was literally done on the fly and arranged hastily a few moments before the actual interview, Pete might not have been as prepared as he might have otherwise been and said that he never asked when final day for NP was. If my memory is correct believe Pete also said Fr. B indicated they were in "no hurry" to fill the position which would seem to match your prior post. I believe he expressed that Brendan Sullivan has things under control which gives them the luxury of time. I know that at least one poster thinks Brendan will be Nate's successor and if Fr. B is leaning that way, that would also take a lot of pressure off naming anyone soon.” We are about one month away from (most likely ... pending the results of the next 6+ games) needing to make a major decision on the Men's Basketball program: do we bring back Bill Carmody on the final year of his contract despite sub-par results for four years, do we extend the contract of a 67-68 year old head coach who has had sub-par results for four years, or do we make a change and hire a new head coach? Is Brendan Sullivan going to make that decision? Is Borroughs (who may not even know if basketballs are puffed or stuffed) going to make that decision? Does anyone in Fenwick really care?
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Feb 12, 2019 15:40:43 GMT -5
So, 2 months w/o a permanent AD? Fr. B said there was “no rush” to replace him. Not sure if that is to save money or because he believes Brendan can handle the job well enough in his acting capacity. He DID suspend Gibbons. From my prior post: “Fr. B was interviewed at halftime of the women's bb game by our classmate "Pete Royce" (his stage name!). Since I was in the Hart, I did not listen to Emmauel radio but saw him doing the interview. No tape of the interview. I asked him how that went and he said Fr. B told him they had the farewell party for Nate last night. I asked, since many of us were curious, when Nate's last day was. Since the interview was literally done on the fly and arranged hastily a few moments before the actual interview, Pete might not have been as prepared as he might have otherwise been and said that he never asked when final day for NP was. If my memory is correct believe Pete also said Fr. B indicated they were in "no hurry" to fill the position which would seem to match your prior post. I believe he expressed that Brendan Sullivan has things under control which gives them the luxury of time. I know that at least one poster thinks Brendan will be Nate's successor and if Fr. B is leaning that way, that would also take a lot of pressure off naming anyone soon.” Does anyone in Fenwick really care? Truth be told, I have come to believe that the academia in Fenwick really doesn't care about wins and losses, and just that we are able to advertise that X% of the Holy Cross student body competes in a Division 1 sport. Fr. B saying that he thought sports were a great way to help broaden the reach and expand the name of the College was nothing more than hot air to appease a crowd of alums.
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Pine out?
Feb 12, 2019 16:44:02 GMT -5
via mobile
mm67 likes this
Post by sader1970 on Feb 12, 2019 16:44:02 GMT -5
First, Fr. B, who I disagree with on many things, brought the LAC to fruition, something his predecessor could not or would not do.
Second, I have no idea what TPTB want done with Carmody. My gut tells me that if Barbara doesn’t get appreciably better that Bill will decide family is more important than a job in which he has been having only marginal success at over the last 4 years and will choose to forego the last year of his contract or, instead, take an administrative job in the athletics department his last year.
Or, decide he would like to try his hand as the permanent AD. That’d satisfy posters who believe we need an AD with actual coaching experience.
I believe Brendan has prior experience as an AD and got the nod to be interim AD. If TPTB want Carmody gone, and there is no evidence of that yet, I assure you that an interim AD can pull the trigger as long as he has the backing of the president.
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Post by CHC8485 on Feb 12, 2019 17:38:41 GMT -5
Seem to recall same concern with the AD search in 2013.
It was almost 6 months from the time FADDR's stepping down was annnounced to the hiring of FADNP. Regan stayed on the job until Pine arrived.
I suspect that the athletic department is far better positioned today to operate for 6 months with an interim AD (who's been an AD before) than it was to operate with a lame duck AD in 2013.
And in consultation with the BOT, pretty sure they'd allow Sullivan to hire the women's BB coach or hand the reins over to AM with an interim tag since women's BB is not going to make or break the new AD. As to the men's BB coach, Sader 1970 said it well. And if a 1 - 2 year extension for Carmody is necessary for recruiting, pretty sure Sullivan can make that recommendation to the BOT fairly easily.
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Post by Ray on Feb 12, 2019 19:51:23 GMT -5
Seem to recall same concern with the AD search in 2013. It was almost 6 months from the time FADDR's stepping down was annnounced to the hiring of FADNP. Regan stayed on the job until Pine arrived. I suspect that the athletic department is far better positioned today to operate for 6 months with an interim AD (who's been an AD before) than it was to operate with a lame duck AD in 2013. And in consultation with the BOT, pretty sure they'd allow Sullivan to hire the women's BB coach or hand the reins over to AM with an interim tag since women's BB is not going to make or break the new AD. As to the men's BB coach, Sader 1970 said it well. And if a 1 - 2 year extension for Carmody is necessary for recruiting, pretty sure Sullivan can make that recommendation to the BOT fairly easily. I think the bigger question is what happens if Carmody walks away after this season.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 12, 2019 20:37:43 GMT -5
Seem to recall same concern with the AD search in 2013. It was almost 6 months from the time FADDR's stepping down was annnounced to the hiring of FADNP. Regan stayed on the job until Pine arrived. I suspect that the athletic department is far better positioned today to operate for 6 months with an interim AD (who's been an AD before) than it was to operate with a lame duck AD in 2013. And in consultation with the BOT, pretty sure they'd allow Sullivan to hire the women's BB coach or hand the reins over to AM with an interim tag since women's BB is not going to make or break the new AD. As to the men's BB coach, Sader 1970 said it well. And if a 1 - 2 year extension for Carmody is necessary for recruiting, pretty sure Sullivan can make that recommendation to the BOT fairly easily. 1) If the Women’s Basketball team is able to hang on to a winning record this year, that will be the first team to finish with a winning record since baseball in 2016 – that’s 29 consecutive losing seasons across the athletic program. We also currently have two “interim” Head Coaches in somewhat major sports – Women’s Basketball & Men’s Lacrosse. Is the athletic program in better position to keep tweeting at the same pace without a permanent AD? Yes. Is the athletic program in a better position outside of social media? Not really. 2) Umm, you’re kind of leaving out a major question regarding all of Sullivan’s recommendations to the BOT – what if the current MBB tailspin continues and someone needs to make a recommendation for removing Carmody. Is that on Sullivan too? We currently have pending issues with the head coaches of both basketball programs – that’s not exactly something that is all fine and dandy to just pass off to an interim Athletic Director.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Feb 12, 2019 20:37:45 GMT -5
Seem to recall same concern with the AD search in 2013. It was almost 6 months from the time FADDR's stepping down was annnounced to the hiring of FADNP. Regan stayed on the job until Pine arrived. I suspect that the athletic department is far better positioned today to operate for 6 months with an interim AD (who's been an AD before) than it was to operate with a lame duck AD in 2013. And in consultation with the BOT, pretty sure they'd allow Sullivan to hire the women's BB coach or hand the reins over to AM with an interim tag since women's BB is not going to make or break the new AD. As to the men's BB coach, Sader 1970 said it well. And if a 1 - 2 year extension for Carmody is necessary for recruiting, pretty sure Sullivan can make that recommendation to the BOT fairly easily. I think the bigger question is what happens if Carmody walks away after this season. This is the more likely scenario. And for those few biting their nails over when a new or permanent AD will be named, don't be surprised if it isn't until the conclusion of this school year.
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Post by CHC8485 on Feb 12, 2019 20:57:11 GMT -5
Seem to recall same concern with the AD search in 2013. It was almost 6 months from the time FADDR's stepping down was annnounced to the hiring of FADNP. Regan stayed on the job until Pine arrived. I suspect that the athletic department is far better positioned today to operate for 6 months with an interim AD (who's been an AD before) than it was to operate with a lame duck AD in 2013. And in consultation with the BOT, pretty sure they'd allow Sullivan to hire the women's BB coach or hand the reins over to AM with an interim tag since women's BB is not going to make or break the new AD. As to the men's BB coach, Sader 1970 said it well. And if a 1 - 2 year extension for Carmody is necessary for recruiting, pretty sure Sullivan can make that recommendation to the BOT fairly easily. I think the bigger question is what happens if Carmody walks away after this season. True enough.
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Post by Tom on Feb 13, 2019 11:45:09 GMT -5
Seem to recall same concern with the AD search in 2013. It was almost 6 months from the time FADDR's stepping down was annnounced to the hiring of FADNP. Regan stayed on the job until Pine arrived. I suspect that the athletic department is far better positioned today to operate for 6 months with an interim AD (who's been an AD before) than it was to operate with a lame duck AD in 2013. And in consultation with the BOT, pretty sure they'd allow Sullivan to hire the women's BB coach or hand the reins over to AM with an interim tag since women's BB is not going to make or break the new AD. As to the men's BB coach, Sader 1970 said it well. And if a 1 - 2 year extension for Carmody is necessary for recruiting, pretty sure Sullivan can make that recommendation to the BOT fairly easily. I think the bigger question is what happens if Carmody walks away after this season. It's awfully cold hearted to be speculating about the health of third party who in no way is in the public realm like an athlete. However, the school does have to be somewhat practical. You can deal with most anything in the short term, but is it reasonable to have a head coach who can't have overnight travel? Aren't there multi-day all star events for recruiting purposes? Sure the assistants can handle some of it, but you're at a disadvantage if you're only using 75 percent of your recruiting staff. It might be cold, but due diligence says that Sullivan needs to have a heart to heart with Coach Carmody about his plans You have an employee of standard retirement age who is taking special accommodations for a family crisis. Whether you think Coach Carmody should stay or go from a job performance standpoint, you have to recognize the very real possibility he could very suddenly retire
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Post by sader1970 on Feb 13, 2019 11:58:01 GMT -5
You will probably be able to guess who the subjects are in the following story I am about to tell but gives some insight into "practicality" vis-a-vis athletics in a Jesuit educational institution. I will tell you, in advance, that I am not going to publicly confirm or deny who they are. You can PM me if you can't figure it out.
A short time after one of our coaches died, I had a conversation with the then president of the College about the sadness of the coach's passing. The response that shocked me was that the coach should have been fired earlier before he ever got sick and that it was his (the president's) mistake in not doing so earlier because once he got sick he couldn't be fired - implicitly it would have looked cold-hearted. The also clear implication was that winning did matter.
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Post by Tom on Feb 13, 2019 12:51:30 GMT -5
You will probably be able to guess who the subjects are in the following story I am about to tell but gives some insight into "practicality" vis-a-vis athletics in a Jesuit educational institution. I will tell you, in advance, that I am not going to publicly confirm or deny who they are. You can PM me if you can't figure it out. A short time after one of our coaches died, I had a conversation with the then president of the College about the sadness of the coach's passing. The response that shocked me was that the coach should have been fired earlier before he ever got sick and that it was his (the president's) mistake in not doing so earlier because once he got sick he couldn't be fired - implicitly it would have looked cold-hearted. The also clear implication was that winning did matter. Bringing this back to the AD situation, the bold face above implies that at some point in history, the president and not the AD makes the termination decision, at least for a major sport. If that is still the case the interim on Sullivan's title won't have a major effect on any potential decision there
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Post by sader1970 on Feb 13, 2019 14:41:09 GMT -5
While I agree with your basic premise, Tom, my impression perhaps because of my own experience and bias in termination situations, is the manager, in this case the AD, normally makes the call but needs at least the next higher level's (in this case the president) concurrence. Again, my impression was that perhaps in the instant case, the AD was "protecting" the coach and the president felt otherwise but deferred to the AD only to regret it afterwards.
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