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Post by trimster on Jan 20, 2019 8:42:41 GMT -5
I doubt you're interested in my opinion, '87, but since you didn't say "except NAD", I am going to weigh in. I know you (and probably some others) will probably think I'm full of poop, but I honestly prefer low D-1 hoops over the rest, as I consider it to the highest level of true amateur basketball...... where the players get zero breaks off the court. Like I've said before, I don't base my musical tastes over who sells the most records, it's totally about what is pleasing to me. If it was all about level of competition, we should enjoy nothing but the NBA. I have watched more than maybe 5-10 minutes of any power conference game so far this year; on the other hand, I spend quite a bit of time watching games from the WCC, Big West, MAC, MAAC, Ivy, America East, etc. I respect those here who worry about the national brand of Holy Cross, but for me, it's just not something I spend any time thinking about. Having said that......I want to watch winning basketball. I was as disappointed/upset as anyone in the gym yesterday - the guys are clearly not playing at the same level they were earlier. Coach Hardy I thought did a great job with his defensive game plan; JF's turnovers were not some freak thing. I'll say what I said last week - our players are missing not having the ex-players that let them down with their poor life decisions. I thought that could be a potential problem, and right now it's wreaking havoc with rotation options. I do want to see SOME kind of adjustments going forward. I really wish Dick L. would just ask Coach for his opinion on where Hargis and Verbeek are development wise. I haven't given up on the team, though. I still believe our core group is mentally strong, and will respond at some point, hopefully sooner than later. I don't expect anyone to totally understand where I'm coming from (or at all, actually), but I also don't need anyone to tell me what I should like and not like when it comes to my sports. I understand where you are coming from NAD and while I long for a return to the days when HC was relevant in Eastern Hoops, I am not so sure competing at the high levels of D1 is where we belong or would succeed. The college I think of that competes at a decent level in hoops while maintaining it's high academic standards is Davidson. I think I would be much more interested in following a program that competes at that level. I respect what the Patriot League stands for but it has never done much for me when it comes to athletics.
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Post by gks on Jan 20, 2019 8:57:43 GMT -5
Holy Cross will never be relevant in Eastern basketball again because they don't want to. They have dug themselves into such a giant hole of unimportance in basketball that I don't know if they can ever get out. Starts and ends at the top levels of the college. Why are they afraid to excel in athletics? What happened in the 70s and 80s to have the powers that be so scared to be a constant winner?
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Post by sader81 on Jan 20, 2019 9:51:35 GMT -5
Was at a funeral yesterday. Didn’t attend or watch. How’d they do?
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Post by HCFC45 on Jan 20, 2019 9:57:01 GMT -5
Was at a funeral yesterday. Didn’t attend or watch. How’d they do? Not trying to be funny, but felt like we were at a "wake" (and not an Irish one either) yesterday! !
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 20, 2019 10:07:25 GMT -5
Seriously. Who here is glad HC is playing in the Patriot League and not the Big East or A-10??? I don’t think anyone is, but joining the A10 isn’t going to just magically solve our biggest problem — inept leadership. The inept president combo of McFarland and Boroughs, along with the inept AD combo of Regan and Pine had no clue how to effectively run an athletics program and hire coaches. As a result, we have made three really poor MBB coaching hires (somewhat remarkably, making three different mistakes on each hire), and the program has fallen from a point where we could have actually made the jump to the A10 from where RW brought the program, to now being in a place where we would just become a Fordham buried at the bottom of that league. We could have hired Ralph Willard after Kearney was fired, but McFarland shut it down. Then we could have hired Kevin Willard after Milan Brown was fired, but Nate Pine shut it down. These decisions made by two guys who barely know whether basketballs are blown up or stuffed have had a severely negative impact on the program and have put us into this awful position we are now in. We had opportunities to correct both the Kearney and Milan mistakes, but failed miserably. Now the roster has been decimated and there is an undisciplined losing culture surrounding the program, and we need to start back at the beginning with a coach who is willing and able to completely rebuild everything from the foundation up.
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Post by timholycross on Jan 20, 2019 11:03:31 GMT -5
Holy Cross will never be relevant in Eastern basketball again because they don't want to. They have dug themselves into such a giant hole of unimportance in basketball that I don't know if they can ever get out. Starts and ends at the top levels of the college. Why are they afraid to excel in athletics? What happened in the 70s and 80s to have the powers that be so scared to be a constant winner? It may be as simple as the Jesuits wanting BC to be the area's major university and Holy Cross to stay a small liberal arts college. And in fact even though there are 3,000 students there now, the male enrollment shrunk vis-a-vis the good old days. All of this was set in motion before Potter, Vicens and Perry stepped on campus.
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Post by bikeman on Jan 20, 2019 11:50:57 GMT -5
Yup. The PL is where HC belongs. Yup. Playing in empty gyms is good for HC. Yup they're students, not basketball players. Yup. Every player and every team at high D-1 are semi-pro who care nothing about academics. HC has always been a small school, but they wanted to be different. They wanted to excell at the highest level. The PTB have betrayed HC history. I think you guys that love the PL do so because you love to hear yourselves screaming on the radio.
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Post by trimster on Jan 20, 2019 11:54:56 GMT -5
Holy Cross will never be relevant in Eastern basketball again because they don't want to. They have dug themselves into such a giant hole of unimportance in basketball that I don't know if they can ever get out. Starts and ends at the top levels of the college. Why are they afraid to excel in athletics? What happened in the 70s and 80s to have the powers that be so scared to be a constant winner? It may be as simple as the Jesuits wanting BC to be the area's major university and Holy Cross to stay a small liberal arts college. And in fact even though there are 3,000 students there now, the male enrollment shrunk vis-a-vis the good old days. All of this was set in motion before Potter, Vicens and Perry stepped on campus. I think you are right. I remember a Jesuit at HC who I knew very well telling me in 1978 he didn't think HC would have athletic scholarships much longer. I'm sure he was hearing talk of it around the dining room table.
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 20, 2019 12:05:00 GMT -5
Yup. (1) The PL is where HC belongs. Yup. (2) Playing in empty gyms is good for HC. Yup (3)they're students, not basketball players. Yup. (4) Every player and every team at high D-1 are semi-pro who care nothing about academics. (5) HC has always been a small school, but they wanted to be different. They wanted to excell at the highest level. The PTB have betrayed HC history. (6) I think you guys that love the PL do so because you love to hear yourselves screaming on the radio. Well, one thing at a time: (1) Yes (2) No - and thank goodness that has never happen in HC history. Small crowds (around 1000) do not equal an empty gym. (3) Yes (4) Nonsense - such universals are seldom correct as many top student athletes show (5) Yes (6) Funny, but what's the point?
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Post by Tom on Jan 20, 2019 12:42:22 GMT -5
Seriously. Who here is glad HC is playing in the Patriot League and not the Big East or A-10??? I am I look at the model as Fordham. The Willard years were more enjoyable to me than a permanent spot in the cellar. As long as HC insists on having admissions standards that are within a reasonable order of magnitude for athletes as non-athletes, they should not be in a league where all the other members have athletes that can't even think about applying to HC. Sad to say that Bucknell is smarter at doing this right now, but I would take their current situation over Fordham's situation
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jan 20, 2019 13:39:43 GMT -5
The one thing I regret with the change in the college hoop landscape in NE is the loss of regional rivalries. And that happened because of one thing, really: G-R-E-E-D. If we do go to the Big East, I'm sure looking forward to jumping in the car for those road trips to DePaul, Marquette, Creighton, and Xavier.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jan 20, 2019 13:56:49 GMT -5
I think you guys that love the PL do so because you love to hear yourselves screaming on the radio. I'm going to guess you're speaking of me and our group in the former Section F. Heaven forbid some of us "PL lovers" try to do what they can to give the current players (who gave nothing to do with this never ending debate) some kind of home court advantage.
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Post by possum on Jan 20, 2019 13:59:35 GMT -5
Yeah but on the flip side we probably would have been to a final four by now as has every original Big East team except BC who made a number of Elite 8's, we would get to see the teams you referenced above on a regular basis, could have all our OOC games at home except for the big time preseason tournaments we'd be invited to. I think I'd take the trade off.
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Post by trimster on Jan 20, 2019 14:01:49 GMT -5
The one thing I regret with the change in the college hoop landscape in NE is the loss of regional rivalries. And that happened because of one thing, really: G-R-E-E-D. If we do go to the Big East, I'm sure looking forward to jumping in the car for those road trips to DePaul, Marquette, Creighton, and Xavier. Road trips to Hamilton, Easton, Bethlehem, Lewisburg and DC aren't exactly enticing. One of the problems with the PL is HC hasn't had any rivalries and that is what makes college sports interesting.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 20, 2019 14:40:43 GMT -5
NAD, come on. You don't drive to those games, you fly. [think "big time"] And you would do it with so much frequency that you would collect a lot of frequent flyer miles and have a lot of those trips gratis.
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Post by cfrivals on Jan 20, 2019 15:10:14 GMT -5
In almost 40 years of the Big East, HC would have made at least a couple final fours and I believe a national championship. Probably 25-30 ncaa appearances but that wouldn’t have been good for the tiny college on the hill.
But instead we talk about lousy attendance, losing seasons, bad coaches, weak rosters, and year after year of being in the bottom tier of the PL.
I don’t speak for all of Worcester, but this is not what I would call their team, it could have been, but that ship has sailed and is loooonng goooone!
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Post by Xmassader on Jan 20, 2019 16:31:31 GMT -5
NAD Don’t know about Omaha but this midwestern alum would look forward to BE games in Milwaukee, Chicago and Cincinnati😊
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Post by bikeman on Jan 20, 2019 16:56:58 GMT -5
Nice win for BC today over #11 Florida St.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Jan 20, 2019 17:14:25 GMT -5
Yet another thread completely off topic.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 20, 2019 17:21:48 GMT -5
cf, 40 years ago, PC was at least as good as HC was and +/- comparable size. They haven't come close to achieving that level of success. On what basis do you suggest this?
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Post by cfrivals on Jan 20, 2019 18:02:28 GMT -5
Every team in the BE had a nice run. HC would have been more like Villanova in my opinion. The post season appearances would have been NIT and NCAA combined. The success would have steamrolled this program to the DCU and sellouts of 10-12k would be the norm, not 800-1500
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billy72
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 95
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Post by billy72 on Jan 20, 2019 19:37:38 GMT -5
Sad but true
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 20, 2019 19:47:15 GMT -5
Is ihoop okay today?
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Post by efg72 on Jan 20, 2019 20:11:11 GMT -5
You are who you are and we are where we are. We are a low Major D1 program trying to become a solid mid major in the Patriot League. A bold and audacious goal for tomorrow.
However, I find the discussions of what might have been a waste of time. We were screwed over time by the school leadership —great —but what do we do to impact the future?
Perhaps we should consider using whatever influence we have to change the BOT or wage a campaign to change direction and decisions being made by the Administration. The group posting here is far advanced from where I sit and talking about coaches who want to win as much as we do might be a wasted effort, and yes there are numerous possibilities or opinions on who should be coaching at our wonderful institution.
Think of us as investors in a public company- the board is in charge and the internal leadership has a voice, but they are all driven by investor behaviors. What do you want the future to be and what are you willing to do about it?
We can all opine ( I do way more than I should) and have angina pains by the lack of progress(after watching all of our games even when we win) but what, if anything can we do to impact positive change?
One voice matters and collectively we can change the commitment to athletics, even if one sport at a time.
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Post by hc80 on Jan 20, 2019 21:00:01 GMT -5
Fundamentally, let’s just be straight. The Big East is not in our future- ever. The unfortunate thing is that this edition of Holy Cross basketball is just not very good - despite the nice OOC record.
Three issues are the major reason: first, lack of depth - just ain’t enough talent; second, we give up too many offensive rebounds to our opponents - you cannot win when the other guys get do-overs more than you do; third, lazy turnovers - wasted possessions are killers.
Coach has a bunch of responsibility for this- but losing those guys last year has messed up this whole program - a lot more than folks give credit. And that is no one’s fault.
I am tired of this mediocrity - let’s hope the incoming class is worthy of the recent hype.
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