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Post by HC13 on Mar 29, 2019 8:58:39 GMT -5
I agree completely Ray and perhaps in artfully suggest as much, but if that is what occur why not clearly state it. I am uncomfortable speculating about the possibility of loss of reputation suit as one might argue that the suspension alone could trigger a loss of reputation particularly if the suspension is found not to be for cause, which I think is up for debate due to the scanty information we have. I am a little concerned about whether were smart enough, the second part of the announcement of naming AM the interim for the season suggests not.
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Post by alum on Mar 29, 2019 9:04:00 GMT -5
Alum, I think you may be right. If I'm BG and this dismissal was out of line, I sue Holy Cross. He needs to be careful and seems to be taking the right approach. Respectfully, if they wanted to avoid a law suit all they had to do, as a cabillion other schools have done recently is announce a non-renewal - bye bye wrongful termination or age discrimination lawsuit! I grant their may be other grounds to sue over the suspension, but if indeed the school botched his termination they deserve all the bad PR they will get. I agree and cannot imagine why they would do anything else. Clearly, however, either the College has some sort of leverage over BG that he cannot talk for now (he is still on the payroll) or he has some sort of claim and a smart lawyer who told him to keep his mouth shut. Another possibility is that everyone is wrong about the contract expiring in June.
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Post by HC13 on Mar 29, 2019 9:05:25 GMT -5
Respectfully, if they wanted to avoid a law suit all they had to do, as a cabillion other schools have done recently is announce a non-renewal - bye bye wrongful termination or age discrimination lawsuit! I grant their may be other grounds to sue over the suspension, but if indeed the school botched his termination they deserve all the bad PR they will get. I agree and cannot imagine why they would do anything else. Clearly, however, either the College has some sort of leverage over BG that he cannot talk for now (he is still on the payroll) or he has some sort of claim and a smart lawyer who told him to keep his mouth shut. Another possibility is that everyone is wrong about the contract expiring in June. I think the school said as much, hence my ongoing puzzlement
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coachrt
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 93
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Post by coachrt on Mar 29, 2019 9:55:01 GMT -5
In any case the school has made a decision and is moving on. BG has very little to nothing he can do in this situation but move on as well. Will be interesting to see where he ends up. I know Hartford just opened but he is going to have a tough road back to being a head coach due to his age and his record the last few seasons. Maybe his pal Geno will give him some type of cushy "Asst. to the head coach " title and he can sit on their bench but if he wants to stay involved in the game he most likely going to be an assistant.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Mar 29, 2019 9:55:26 GMT -5
If BG was suspended for bullS***, then the college can't sit back later and say his contract will not be renewed at the end of the season due to recent W/L results. They're already opened the can of worms that some "personnel" issue drove them to keep him away from coaching the latter stages of the 2018-2019 season. If they kept their mouths shut and let him coach and then chose not to renew him, there would be none of this drama and cloud over the program.
Second, if AM is the coach, she's the coach. If the interim athletic clown director did not want to appoint a full time coach, in deference to what is expected to be his successor in the role as the full time AD, then they should have either A) found a full-time AD faster, or B) not said anything about AM becoming/staying coach of the team.
The only thing worse than a bad decision in my opinion is a half-assed bad decision. Holy Cross repeatedly has been trying to appease sixteen different perspectives, and succeeding in appeasing none of them. The same folks are on the bridge during these debacles, why would we expect the ship to sail any differently?
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Post by bison137 on Mar 29, 2019 9:59:44 GMT -5
I'll say this...if you're going to fire Coach Gibbons (613 career wins by the way) for too much losing the you better be firing every coach, except Chesney who is new, on that campus. There is one big diffeence. One reason for the lack of success of HC teams is fewer scholarships and a smaller budget than most of its competitors. However for most of BG's tenure he has had a much larger budget than other PL teams. And for a significant portion of that time, he also had more scholarships. So he has operated with a tailwind, while other coaches (except men's basketball) have the reverse.
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Post by purplehaze on Mar 29, 2019 10:22:16 GMT -5
Thanks for pointing that out, bison. The most significant reason for his release was his teams' performances, PERIOD ! Over the last 10 seasons, and up to his suspension on Jan 31, here is the record: 137-167 overall - .450 73-82 league - . 470 End of discussion. The suspension is secondary and a distraction from why there was no reason to renew his contract.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 29, 2019 10:30:24 GMT -5
I'll say this...if you're going to fire Coach Gibbons (613 career wins by the way) for too much losing the you better be firing every coach, except Chesney who is new, on that campus. There is one big diffeence. One reason for the lack of success of HC teams is fewer scholarships and a smaller budget than most of its competitors. However for most of BG's tenure he has had a much larger budget than other PL teams. And for a significant portion of that time, he also had more scholarships. So he has operated with a tailwind, while other coaches (except men's basketball) have the reverse. This landlubber is interperting your comment to mean he didn't tack so well when the tailwind died down and was left drifting at sea with several losing seasons in a row. That sounds about right but it did seem that the best player on the team, ie: Lepley, Scott, would get hurt quite often.
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Post by bison137 on Mar 29, 2019 10:31:16 GMT -5
Thanks for pointing that out, bison. The most significant reason for his release was his teams' performances, PERIOD ! Over the last 10 seasons, and up to his suspension on Jan 31, here is the record: 137-167 overall - .450 73-82 league - . 470 End of discussion. The suspension is secondary and a distraction from why there was no reason to renew his contract. He has a 73-82 PL record despite having had the league's biggest budget over that time period.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 29, 2019 10:37:46 GMT -5
Also Bison, do you think more money toward scholarships and less for upgraded training facilities is a better investment for a PL School, measured by W-L success only?
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Post by gks on Mar 29, 2019 10:58:25 GMT -5
Thanks for pointing that out, bison. The most significant reason for his release was his teams' performances, PERIOD ! Over the last 10 seasons, and up to his suspension on Jan 31, here is the record: 137-167 overall - .450 73-82 league - . 470 End of discussion. The suspension is secondary and a distraction from why there was no reason to renew his contract. Then he should have just been fired. Period. No reason to suspend him for a giant chunk of the season over a 'personnel issue.' Sullivan and the athletic department didn't have the guts to do it. Hid behind the suspension. BTW...women's team had their best non-conference record in years.
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Post by hc87 on Mar 29, 2019 11:27:30 GMT -5
Thanks for pointing that out, bison. The most significant reason for his release was his teams' performances, PERIOD ! Over the last 10 seasons, and up to his suspension on Jan 31, here is the record: 137-167 overall - .450 73-82 league - . 470 End of discussion. The suspension is secondary and a distraction from why there was no reason to renew his contract. Then he should have just been fired. Period. No reason to suspend him for a giant chunk of the season over a 'personnel issue.' Sullivan and the athletic department didn't have the guts to do it. Hid behind the suspension. BTW...women's team had their best non-conference record in years. This....why "suspend" if ultimately his dismissal was basically his W/L? I can't think of a D1 athletic department that has brought on more self-imposed drama than ours the last few years or so. Ridiculous.
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Post by sonsofspitler on Mar 29, 2019 11:30:06 GMT -5
If any of you had any idea what the actual story here is, many of you would have different perspectives on how this is being handled. Some of you, of course, want to tar and feather anything associated with the current regime so that perspective will never change.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 29, 2019 12:01:00 GMT -5
A balance to the argument that BG had a tailwind from the biggest WBB budget in the PL is perhaps he earned all or some of it. For years if other PL WBB teams might be getting 150 to attend home games, BG would be getting 1150 or so, which generates revenue. Thanks in part to his tireless outreach to the community and media, (or you could say self promotion, the results are the same) the WBB program was a source of pride to some in the HC and Worcester communities. The Telegram and Gazette, Charter TV-3, etc. would generally give Holy Cross Women's basketball the same billing as Men's. The headline would screech Holy Cross defeats Michigan (we beat them one year didn't we?) or Maryland and then in the body of the story the gender of the team be identified. WBB played UConn for many years in a row and the visiting team must get a decent chunk of change when the game sells out the Hartford Civic Center. And for many years when most HC teams weren't getting near a PL championship, WBB was contending for it and often going to the NCAA which helped validate Holy Cross as still having a viable D-1 Sports program. So, I am enthused for next year with AM, but if BG did have a headwind, he at least plugged a fan in to help it along. Plus, so far there have been no mention of any WBB players being involved in that ugly Uber incident at Leitrum's Pub, so that's a positive.
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Post by purplehaze on Mar 29, 2019 12:09:25 GMT -5
gks, Please stop with the non-conference nonsense - best that you act informed - that ooc schedule was a joke for a team with the talent that we had - easily the softest of all the PL teams - take a look ! We decided not to schedule good (not great) teams within a bus ride from campus: Harvard, Northeastern, UMass, Hartford, Dartmouth, Yale - NE opponents that we avoided
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Post by bison137 on Mar 29, 2019 12:42:35 GMT -5
WBB played UConn for many years in a row and the visiting team must get a decent chunk of change when the game sells out the Hartford Civic Center. Don't think so. They might get traveling expenses. UConn has lower-level teams lined up wanting to play them, with no expectation of a check.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 29, 2019 13:42:53 GMT -5
Several of the comments supra overlook or ignore that this matter arose out of a complaint to the college.. And that complaint led to an investigation.
The college almost certainly has a legal duty to investigate the complaint, once the complaint is filed. The filing sets in motion what is now a fairly defined process, in which the claimant(s) and the respondent (BG) have certain rights.
And the college cannot, yesterday, today, or tomorrow, simply decide, 'Oh, we'll take a pass on investigating this because he is leaving anyway.'
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Post by WCHC Sports on Mar 29, 2019 13:50:43 GMT -5
If any of you had any idea what the actual story here is, many of you would have different perspectives on how this is being handled. Some of you, of course, want to tar and feather anything associated with the current regime so that perspective will never change. If you (HC AD) tell me something is important or controversial enough to warrant action, but never tell me what the event actually was, and instead say "just trust me on this," I will never "just trust you" on that thing. Without bringing the facts to life, HC brings about the need for such skepticism. Their past track record in recent years gives them no leeway or credibility with me, even if BG's alleged actions/violations were egregious in nature. If it was that much of a no-brainer, I would not expect HC to be so cloak-and-dagger about the whole situation. If their secrecy is an attempt to not slander the name and reputation of the coach after his many years of employment with the college, then the actionable offense couldn't be that bad, could it?
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 29, 2019 14:00:54 GMT -5
WBB played UConn for many years in a row and the visiting team must get a decent chunk of change when the game sells out the Hartford Civic Center. Don't think so. They might get traveling expenses. UConn has lower-level teams lined up wanting to play them, with no expectation of a check. That sounds reasonable. One year I drove to the Hartford Civic Center to attend a Sunday afternoon UCONN-HC WBB game and it was sold out, so we had lunch at a nearby pub and the game was on TV in the pub. Connecticut PBS carried the games statewide. Geno and CD really can not be praised enough for what they did with their program.
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Post by gks on Mar 29, 2019 14:32:27 GMT -5
Some WBB alumni got together at the Mercy Center in Worcester today.
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Post by purplehaze on Mar 29, 2019 16:02:52 GMT -5
If they knew their latin a little better they would know that BG did not coach boys - quick ! insert 'ALUMNAE'
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Post by ts1970 on Mar 29, 2019 17:55:53 GMT -5
If they knew their latin a little better they would know that BG did not coach boys - quick ! insert 'ALUMNAE' Es rectus.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 29, 2019 19:15:15 GMT -5
I thought of another possible reason for the peculiar timing of the announcement: the current WBB coaching staff, sans Gibbons, was having problems with OOC scheduling. OOC coaches asking, 'What if BG is reinstated as HC and doesn't want to play me?'
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Post by DiMarz on Mar 29, 2019 19:26:29 GMT -5
The national Women's Basketball Coaches Association holds their annual convention at the Final Four in Tampa next weekend...Lots of networking going on, letting AM know she will be in charge next season may be a reason for the timing of the announcement..
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Post by HC92 on Mar 30, 2019 7:52:06 GMT -5
Is it that hard to structure a contract with a mutual opt-out after the first year? Same contractual effect as the interim deal but doesn’t set the program back by screwing up recruiting in a way that could potentially impact multiple classes. Hopefully there’s more going on here that makes the interim plan a sensible one but I’m struggling to imagine what that might be.
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