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Post by crusader12 on Mar 10, 2019 8:54:54 GMT -5
I, like most fans have wanted to puke over the lack of results of this department. It is time for a major change, either drop the whole school to DIII or make some significant sports team cuts at the D1 level. This cannot continue.
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Post by trimster on Mar 10, 2019 19:35:07 GMT -5
Unfortunately, it will continue if it is what TPTB want.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Mar 11, 2019 12:23:14 GMT -5
Fractions of the current student body (that are not participants themselves in D1 athletics), smaller fractions of recent alums, and smaller fractions still of local fans care about the program. The larger boosters and most ardent fans tend to be alumni aged north of 60 years old. I feel this waters down some of the more fiery feedback here, and likely more broadly, to not take the bold steps to do "what must be done."
Even the long, storied former athletes of HC football or basketball do not publicly advocate for, criticize, admonish, or otherwise seem to follow HC athletics. They have not banded together to tout the storied, yet now-ancient history of HC athletics, and compel TPTB to do anything.
To piggyback on trimester's post, TPTB are okay to finish with terrible records across the board. They are imminently satisfied that they allow a small school such a large opportunity to provide all sorts of sports to all types of student athletes, and would rather celebrate their GPAs than their W/L records, even with patches on jerseys during games. One cynical viewpoint is that there is continued belief of the mutual exclusiveness between academic success and athletic success... I feel that TPTB would have athletes playing contests wearing backpacks full of books just to prove a point that HC is "better" academically.
One thing is clear... the reputation or ethos or spirit of athletics from 100 or even 50 years ago is irrelevant, when the last 25 years have largely been that of ineptitude and by-golly-gosh-shucks acceptance of the participation model rather than the winning model.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 11, 2019 12:28:13 GMT -5
Why are Lehigh, Bucknell, and Colgate able to figure it out, but Alma Mater can't?
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Post by hc87 on Mar 11, 2019 12:55:44 GMT -5
Why are Lehigh, Bucknell, and Colgate able to figure it out, but Alma Mater can't? Mehhh....they really aren't either....in the sense that they aren't playing at the level that HC basketball and football was up until the late 1970s, 1980s or so. As WCHC and others have said...you have to be fairly long in the tooth these days to remember when HC basketball was in the Top 20 in basketball and/or playing BC, Army competitively annually in football. Almost 2 generations know only of HC competing in the Patriot League....not many care anymore....it is what it is.
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Post by gate88 on Mar 11, 2019 13:01:19 GMT -5
Cutting field hockey and baseball isn't the answer. "Minor" sports are used as an enrollment driver by LACs -- they bring in full pay kids who migh otherwise go to schools with business programs,etc. They also tend to be succesful post-graduation.
The answer is: embrace the PL and play to win there.
The AI is a shared burden for every team, not an excuse. HC is same size as Bucknell and Colgate. Bigger than Lafayette. You have a (dormant) fan base and a great tradition. Just win, baby!
(By the way, Colgate's days in Cotterel may be numbered -- a "cozy arena" may be on the way.)
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Post by crusader12 on Mar 11, 2019 13:32:39 GMT -5
Unfortunately, it will continue if it is what TPTB want. How could TPTB possibly want to continue losing the way we have? If they don't care about athletics let's drop to DIII and end the charade.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Mar 11, 2019 13:33:24 GMT -5
Why are Lehigh, Bucknell, and Colgate able to figure it out, but Alma Mater can't? My dad never went to any college, let alone HC, but he always told me: "Can't means won't."
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Post by gate88 on Mar 11, 2019 13:35:45 GMT -5
The problem is, when you do win, posters still complain that it's not the Perry and Vincens halcion days.
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Post by hcpride on Mar 11, 2019 13:39:29 GMT -5
I, like most fans have wanted to puke over the lack of results of this department. It is time for a major change, either drop the whole school to DIII or make some significant sports team cuts at the D1 level. This cannot continue. If it is the losing that makes you unhappy, a move to DIII is unlikely to result in any more winning.
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Post by hc87 on Mar 11, 2019 13:40:15 GMT -5
Unfortunately, it will continue if it is what TPTB want. How could TPTB possibly want to continue losing the way we have? If they don't care about athletics let's drop to DIII and end the charade. Our niche or brand is a school that "participates in many D1 sports"...winning and losing are almost incidental in many ways. Unfortunately, with this mindset (for some anyway), the "major/revenue sports" also fall undah this umbrella. We have far too many sports (imo) for a school our size to hope to be competitive in most but that's basically where we are today.
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Post by joe on Mar 11, 2019 14:15:22 GMT -5
Our approach is flawed on so many levels. 97 million dollars and still can't get a decent hot dog.
I'm losing interest.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 11, 2019 14:58:38 GMT -5
Cutting field hockey and baseball isn't the answer. "Minor" sports are used as an enrollment driver by LACs -- they bring in full pay kids who migh otherwise go to schools with business programs,etc. They also tend to be succesful post-graduation. The answer is: embrace the PL and play to win there. The AI is a shared burden for every team, not an excuse. HC is same size as Bucknell and Colgate. Bigger than Lafayette. You have a (dormant) fan base and a great tradition. Just win, baby! (By the way, Colgate's days in Cotterel may be numbered -- a "cozy arena" may be on the way.) With the team's recent success, Colgate should plan for a significant increase in attendance. I'd suggest that the venue should seat up to 800 fans..
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Post by lou on Mar 11, 2019 15:47:19 GMT -5
(By the way, Colgate's days in Cotterel may be numbered -- a "cozy arena" may be on the way.) with new video boards for the 'gate winters
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Post by hchoops on Mar 11, 2019 16:17:07 GMT -5
But will it hold the large crowds that fill Cotterel ?
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Post by timholycross on Mar 11, 2019 16:18:26 GMT -5
Just put chairs in Cotterell like BU did at The Roof and the place should be nice enough (and the small capacity won't matter either).
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 11, 2019 16:33:29 GMT -5
Not really. There is more than enough seating and, IIRC, the new scoreboards will be going in by next season. After last season, will the moaning and wailing about the HArt not being big enough for hockey finally die down a bit?
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Post by joe on Mar 11, 2019 16:44:41 GMT -5
$92 million for the Luth upgrade and the Hart renovation still results in a hs gym with bleacher seats and a scoreboard against the wall rather than at center court. (unlike the Bucknell facility with around the same seating capacity but with a college atmosphere due in large part to its seat back seating and a center court scoreboard.) All this for basketball, HC's marquee sport! What the heck were TPTB thinking? Reasons for this failure to provide a college level gym are always recited but in the end it is what it is - a high school gym. Certainly the Hart is not a help for recruiting and I do realize that other factors go into a recruit's choice of college. HC needs to renovate the renovation and fix the Hart ASAP! Agree
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 11, 2019 17:31:02 GMT -5
HC has determined that athletes who played a varsity sport are more successful after graduating than students who did not play a varsity sport. HC very likely can break that down by sport (one needs to cumulate the parts to produce a sum). Given that, why would HC decrease the number of sports or athletes playing a sport? I am willing to wager that some of the NESCAC schools which have higher participation rates than HC have come to a similar finding. Williams 737 unduplicated varsity athletes out of 2033 enrolled. Bowdoin 653 of 1811. Would NESCAC schools run so many sports if athletes were less successful than their non-athlete counterparts? IMO, HC is impeded by being liberal arts. The Lehigh women's basketball roster has seven players who have majors not offered by HC. Boston University men's soccer, first five numbered players, two are enrolled in the school of business, two in the school of general studies (I thought the PL didn't allow that at BU). Of the five, one is from Belgium, another from Sierra Leone, and another from Croatia. As to whether HC is too Catholic conservative is the subject of another thread. HC is about 75? percent Catholic, Georgetown.about 50 percent. Fordham is less than 50 percent* . And to be fair, Notre Dame is more Catholic than HC. * www.catholicworldreport.com/2017/01/07/new-history-describes-founding-rise-and-secularization-of-fordham-university/
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Mar 11, 2019 18:41:47 GMT -5
Not really. There is more than enough seating and, IIRC, the new scoreboards will be going in by next season. After last season, will the moaning and wailing about the HArt not being big enough for hockey finally die down a bit? Hi, I was not pointing to the number of seats but to the 1) roll-up bleacher seats and the 2) scoreboard. Look at the Hart. 3) Do you think it has the look of a college facility - a venue for HC's marquee sport? Maybe, I'm a minority of one but IMHO it does not measure up. Glad to read your posts with much respect and in friendship. MM LoveHC 1) Cameron Indoor, Gallager-Iba, and The Palestra are among the many CBB arenas that have moveable bleachers. Anything wrong with any of these venues?
2) There could never be "jumbotron" hanging over the court at the Hart as the ceiling beams are too low to allow for it.
3) For a tiny school playing an invisible athletic league whose athletic glory has been long gone for decades - yes. When was the last time you were in the Hart?
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Post by joe on Mar 11, 2019 19:35:27 GMT -5
Eyeball test.
Navy’s facility is a D1 arena.
HC’s facility is a gym. The fact that the ceiling is so low that we can’t have a Jumbotron underscores this.
Similarly the Agannis at BU is an arena, whereas the rack is a gym.
Bucknell’s facility is an arena.
Laveites at Harvard is a gym.
Details matter. Optics matter.
Give me the Palestra any day.
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Post by lou on Mar 11, 2019 20:04:20 GMT -5
Hart Center may not be an arena style, but it's much nicer than a typical gym imo
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 11, 2019 20:05:14 GMT -5
The more wins the team gets, the better the facility will look!!! An arena with more empty seats for a losing or .500 team is indeed "lipstick on a pig" (to quote one regular poster).
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Mar 11, 2019 20:06:16 GMT -5
Why do chairbacks need to be installed for all seating when the ones they have aren't even filled now?
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 11, 2019 20:08:20 GMT -5
CTP, are you really trying to apply logical thinking here? On CROSSPORTS??? Wow!
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