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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 12, 2019 12:56:05 GMT -5
The Hart is actually probably too big as it is for 95% of the basketball games played there now or in the future. The Hart is actually the perfect size for if and when we get back to being competitive in mid-major basketball.
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Post by crusader12 on Mar 12, 2019 13:09:16 GMT -5
Why didn't HC build something similar to Bucknell or any other similar small college arena? Was it cost? Was it impractical to build an arena with more space around the court, a higher roof with a center court scoreboard and permanent arena seats? Did TPTB believe that the Hart as presently constructed serves its purpose by providing a simple venue for HC basketball? Or, was it all of these things? So, HC has a hs gym. It says a lot about the thinking of TPTB, doesn't it? So be it. By the way, I find this discussion with its varying points of view very interesting. Thank you. LoveHC mm67, I don't believe you were posting on the old board when the matter of expanding and renovating Hart was discussed ad nauseum. Basically, the footprint of the Hart court is such that the renovation/expansion model would have been St. Joe's. After For before, www.sjuhawks.com/PhotoAlbum.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=31200&PALBID=959750^^^ Go to the last photo in the photostream, the one with the guy in a wheelchair, for the arena before renovation. St. Joe's blew out two walls, raised the roof, added 1100 seats (most are apparently at the end courts) The cost ten years ago was $25 million. But the real bottom line is that the Luth's apparently weren't interested in paying $25 million to renovate/expand the Hart court, and neither was anyone else. As Fr McF would lament at the time, no one was willing to pay the $10-12 million to expand the rink. And besides, in the discussions of yesteryear, a renovated Hart court was still too small. It would not have had the seating capacity required for on-campus venue for Big East membership. HC would be spending $25+ million for a court for the women's team, while the men played at DCU. Sadly the Hawk never dies, but the Crusader did.........
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Post by hc87 on Mar 12, 2019 13:09:48 GMT -5
The Hart is actually probably too big as it is for 95% of the basketball games played there now or in the future. The Hart is actually the perfect size for if and when we get back to being competitive in mid-major basketball. I hear ya'...but I highly doubt we evah return to even RW-era attendance figures. Much like I pine for the Hart of circa 1978, people your age hope to return to the days of the early 00s....neither, given where both low mid-major basketball is in today's athletic world and HC's overall current athletic philosophy, are evah going to return sadly. We have basically become Colgate or Lehigh in terms of hoop attendance/fan-dom.
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Post by joe on Mar 12, 2019 14:05:06 GMT -5
We don’t need more seating; we need a nicer looking, modernized facility. A mid scale renovation. There are two different conversations going on here.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 12, 2019 17:10:30 GMT -5
Bring back the bowling alley in Hogan basement and go to the NCAA final four in that sport.
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 12, 2019 17:15:15 GMT -5
FDU picked up some national titles in bowling (one of my former bowlers was an All-American there). Nw if you want to talk bout SMALL "crowds"...
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 12, 2019 17:22:57 GMT -5
. Boston University men's soccer, first five numbered players, two are enrolled in the school of business, two in the school of general studies (I thought the PL didn't allow that at BU). Students in Boston U's School of General Studies are generally traditional liberal arts majors who are taught in a "team" concept for their first two years, which ends in a Capstone project. After that, they move into the normal College of Arts and Sciences. The PL doesn't make any attempt to tell schools how they should be structured. I erred. I believe its students enrolled in BU's Metropolitan College who are precluded from participating in PL sports.
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Post by trimster on Mar 12, 2019 18:18:45 GMT -5
Whatever the cause, the place looks small time. Maybe some gyms pull off bleachers better than we do. Again, it’s an eyeball test. And to think HC tried to brand the Hart as being renovated a couple of year ago is insulting to the intelligence of those of us who have practiced in that gym and attended games. They painted the walls and chairs, stained the floor, and put in some dumb MA graphic as a subtle reminder to many that most of the viewing public needs a visual cue to even know where the college is located. Sure there are some decent teams with equally lousy gyms. But we aren’t one of them. We need to look at everything that can be fixed and fix all of it. How is this even debatable? The “it’s fine” mentality is the very reason why HC sucks at every sport across the board. And if "it's fine" with HC I suggest we all put our wallets away. Enough is enough. The sad thing is I don't think anyone that is calling the shots on the Hill would care. Many, many people have already done that. If the alums put their wallets away when it came time to contribute to the Holy Cross Fund, that would get their attention. TPTB know that isn't going to happen as the vast majority of alums, myself included, view their Holy Cross experience as so much more than how the sports teams did in their day or are currently doing. Maybe if a vast majority of alums said let's explore going the D-2 or 3 route, that might get some attention.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 12, 2019 19:25:09 GMT -5
With our luck, if we moved to D-3 we would miss out on the league WPI is in and wind up in the one Becker is in - no disrespect to Becker, certainly.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 13, 2019 5:32:42 GMT -5
With our luck, if we moved to D-3 we would miss out on the league WPI is in and wind up in the one Becker is in - no disrespect to Becker, certainly. There were occasional mentions on the old board about HC approaching NESCAC for membership in decades past, and being rejected out-of-hand. The supposed interest stemming from NESCAC being a sports-rich conference for M/W. Three of the schools in WPI's and Clark's conference are all women, and Wheaton was formerly so. The conference is the New England Women's and Men's Athletic Conference, a name possibly indicative of the gender orientation of the conference. There is nothing gained from Div II, a netherworld of wannabees.
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Post by joe on Mar 13, 2019 7:39:24 GMT -5
Being a D1 school is one of HC's biggest assets as a school in general. I would fear the fall out from dropping to D3 would traumatic to the school on many levels, and once that move is made, you really can't go back. And once the deed is done we'd have some pretty tough recruiting challenges as we'd be pitted against some regional schools with more academic diversity. I feel we'd have some early dominance and then quickly re-establish a level of in-conference mediocrity, as we've done through the years as we've dropped down through competitive levels, only now we'd be D3 -- rock bottom -- with nowhere else to fall. That being said, without an enormous culture shift, this is where HC deserves to be.
My vote if for HC to embrace what it has done in the past as it looks to the future. There is a way to make it work, but it involves some hard decisions, disappointments by some, re-commitment, and creativity. I am not convinced we have the talent for this in-house. The AD hire is huge. I am not overly optimistic.
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Post by crusader12 on Mar 13, 2019 7:59:43 GMT -5
Even more important at this stage is a new President and BoT. Both need to have a clear direction as to what Holy Cross wants to be athletically. I've heard more about the Crusader fiasco and removing all the "knights" from Fr. B than his actual approach to HC athletics, who we are, and where we want to go. If we get another Boroughs-like hire from HC it wont matter who the AD is in my opinion. That person will be stuck in the same rat wheel we have been in for 30+ years. Our next president needs to want to take athletics seriously in conjunction with his/her primary duties of furthering the academic institution.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 13, 2019 9:27:27 GMT -5
Contrast the Crusader fiasco with the University of Wyoming's decision to keep its controversial "The world needs more cowboys" slogan. The school stuck to its guns, so to speak, and alums and supporters responded most favorably. In that one case the majority did not let a small and obnoxious minority bully it.
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Post by Tom on Mar 13, 2019 11:17:15 GMT -5
Contrast the Crusader fiasco with the University of Wyoming's decision to keep its controversial "The world needs more cowboys" slogan. The school stuck to its guns, so to speak, and alums and supporters responded most favorably. In that one case the majority did not let a small and obnoxious minority bully it. UMass literally stuck to its guns about 25 years ago when there was a movement to get rid of the Minuteman because of his musket.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 13, 2019 11:34:18 GMT -5
UW dug it's Spurs in and remained true to it's heritage in a vanilla PC world of conformity. If HC becomes a commodity our price tag will work against us. There are cheaper alternatives and we would stop making sense to more and more consumers.
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Post by trimster on Mar 13, 2019 12:01:03 GMT -5
Contrast the Crusader fiasco with the University of Wyoming's decision to keep its controversial "The world needs more cowboys" slogan. The school stuck to its guns, so to speak, and alums and supporters responded most favorably. In that one case the majority did not let a small and obnoxious minority bully it. UMass literally stuck to its guns about 25 years ago when there was a movement to get rid of the Minuteman because of his musket. UMass had already caved once when they gave the Redmen many years ago as did the Redmen of St. John's. What exactly is a Red Storm btw. I still think a large grape could be our mascot and we could be called The Purple. That has been al alternate nickname for years.
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Post by timholycross on Mar 13, 2019 18:54:44 GMT -5
UMass literally stuck to its guns about 25 years ago when there was a movement to get rid of the Minuteman because of his musket. UMass had already caved once when they gave the Redmen many years ago as did the Redmen of St. John's. What exactly is a Red Storm btw. I still think a large grape could be our mascot and we could be called The Purple. That has been al alternate nickname for years. The cute fruit mascot has worked for Syracuse quite well. No need to change Crusaders to use it now, either. Folks that know HC would know where the mascot comes from. Nickname for the mascot would be Gilbert or some other famous grape character.
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Post by CHC8485 on Mar 13, 2019 19:58:40 GMT -5
The Hilltoppers of Western Kentucky use this guy pretty successfully for many years.
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Post by timholycross on Mar 15, 2019 13:32:07 GMT -5
An ingenious mascot given that there's really no Hilltopper character and the other symbol associated with WKU is a towel.
"WKU’s unique "Red Towel" tradition originated with the late E.A. Diddle, one of the WKU Red Towel Logomost successful coaches in collegiate basketball history.
Through 1,062 Hilltopper basketball games, Diddle clutched a red towel. He chewed on it, threw it, cried on it, waved it at fans and used it to signal his players.
The Red Towel became synonymous with Coach Diddle and he became synonymous with WKU's outstanding athletic heritage. And, now fans at Hilltopper sporting events wave red towels as they cheer for "Big Red."
The concept of WKU's Red Towel athletics logo was developed by former Hilltopper athlete, coach and athletics director John Oldham in 1971."
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Post by Chu Chu on Mar 15, 2019 15:01:22 GMT -5
What is he, a hill?
If this can work, then we would do fine with "Shieldy"!
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Post by rickii on Mar 15, 2019 15:16:46 GMT -5
UMass had already caved once when they gave the Redmen many years ago as did the Redmen of St. John's. What exactly is a Red Storm btw. I still think a large grape could be our mascot and we could be called The Purple. That has been al alternate nickname for years. The cute fruit mascot has worked for Syracuse quite well. No need to change Crusaders to use it now, either. Folks that know HC would know where the mascot comes from. Nickname for the mascot would be Gilbert or some other famous grape character. AIR, in the initial years of the Carrier Dome, a student ran around the floor dressed exactly like famous actor Clayton Moore's Lone Ranger character. They called him the Dome Ranger !
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 25, 2019 11:10:45 GMT -5
Spring sports look like they are off to a great start! Baseball (4-19), Softball (3-17), MLAX (3-5), WLAX (3-6) have combined for a tremendous 13-47 (.217), including 3-7 (.300) in the PL!
Not sure why we should ever even get around to that pesky search for a new AD with how great everything is going!
----- Edit: I just read that AIC (Apply In Crayon) won the Atlantic Hockey Championship. So that means we have now been lapped by AIC in hockey to go along with getting lapped by Colgate in MBB. Absolutely tremendous!
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Post by trimster on Mar 25, 2019 13:51:00 GMT -5
Spring sports look like they are off to a great start! Baseball (4-19), Softball (3-17), MLAX (3-5), WLAX (3-6) have combined for a tremendous 13-47 (.217), including 3-7 (.300) in the PL! Not sure why we should ever even get around to that pesky search for a new AD with how great everything is going! ----- Edit: I just read that AIC (Apply In Crayon) won the Atlantic Hockey Championship. So that means we have now been lapped by AIC in hockey to go along with getting lapped by Colgate in MBB. Absolutely tremendous! I never thought I’d see the day HC would be looking u
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Post by trimster on Mar 25, 2019 13:54:03 GMT -5
Up to Colgate in hoops but here we are. Kudos to the Red Raiders for building a strong program and not so much to HC for falling to where we are.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Mar 26, 2019 12:16:03 GMT -5
Spring sports look like they are off to a great start! Baseball (4-19), Softball (3-17), MLAX (3-5), WLAX (3-6) have combined for a tremendous 13-47 (.217), including 3-7 (.300) in the PL! Not sure why we should ever even get around to that pesky search for a new AD with how great everything is going! ----- Edit: I just read that AIC (Apply In Crayon) won the Atlantic Hockey Championship. So that means we have now been lapped by AIC in hockey to go along with getting lapped by Colgate in MBB. Absolutely tremendous! But let's keep griping and saying that baseball, playing in Worcester in March and April, where the weather is akin to most locales' Decembers, is a sport we should pour more money and attention into relative to basketball and hockey.
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