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Post by WorcesterGray on Aug 18, 2019 11:17:27 GMT -5
I can see Lowder and Wade getting 25-30 mpg at 1 and 2, Butler as many as he can take at 2/3, Faw 25+ (if he can stay out of foul trouble), Niego likewise if he stays healthy. Others scrum for 60-70 minutes.
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Post by hchoops on Aug 18, 2019 11:27:54 GMT -5
I can see Lowder and Wade getting 25-30 mpg at 1 and 2, Butler as many as he can take at 2/3, Faw 25+ (if he can stay out of foul trouble), Niego likewise if he stays healthy. Others scrum for 60-70 minutes. Possibly. Copeland May get meaningful minutes at the 2-3. Wade maybe fewer, esp if Butler sees minutes at the 2. No reason Niego will not be healthy. If we play man D , at least some of the time, and a faster offense, as expected, the former big starter minutes may be reduced due to fouls and rest.
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Post by possum on Aug 18, 2019 11:51:22 GMT -5
Nelson's been dealt a tough hand and has a big job in front of him. The good news is expectations are low so he should get at least a two year grace period to turn over the roster. Six more scholarships to dole out in next two recruiting classes and it's imperative that he hit on a much higher percentage than his predecessor. Should be interesting to see if Grandison can compete in the Big 10.
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Post by DiMarz on Aug 18, 2019 15:06:52 GMT -5
The big question in my mind is what will the re-incarnation of the team be? A fast paced shoot 'em style, an aggressive dribble-drive and kick, straight up motion? And what will we look like on D? Switching pressure? Man? match-up? zone pressures? gadgets? Something different every night? Will we see a short bench or a platoon system? If I were in Coach Nelson's position, I'd use multiple defenses all the time, change on every dead ball, time out, free throw...The players at HC are smart and can handle the changing D's. This would give teams so much to prepare for, and then go with the most successful for the night at crunch time....Coach did say he and his staff had a lot of evaluating to do, hopefully they will discover some precious eggs in the basket!
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Post by sader81 on Aug 18, 2019 15:20:44 GMT -5
Sorry to see Grandy and Green go, but move on and next players up! Four experienced juniors will anchor the team - Cope, Faw, Niego and Butler. Louder and Reilly will need to grow up in a hurry at the point, as well as Wade. Le Sann is a senior and hopefully surprises people, as a lot of seniors have done in the past. Hargis and Verbeek will get an opportunity to play, let’s hope they’re ready. I don’t expect a championship, but we’ll be better than people expect.
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Post by hchoops on Aug 18, 2019 18:32:02 GMT -5
The big question in my mind is what will the re-incarnation of the team be? A fast paced shoot 'em style, an aggressive dribble-drive and kick, straight up motion? And what will we look like on D? Switching pressure? Man? match-up? zone pressures? gadgets? Something different every night? Will we see a short bench or a platoon system? If I were in Coach Nelson's position, I'd use multiple defenses all the time, change on every dead ball, time out, free throw...The players at HC are smart and can handle the changing D's. This would give teams so much to prepare for, and then go with the most successful for the night at crunch time....Coach did say he and his staff had a lot of evaluating to do, hopefully they will discover some precious eggs in the basket! The problem with the multiple defenses is the more you play many,ds, the less time you have to practice any 1 or maybe a secondary one. better to use the practice and early OOC games to pick a primary and secondary D, and stick with them.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Aug 18, 2019 21:35:56 GMT -5
I look back on my earlier post and see I had Lowder with 32 minutes at PG spelled 8 MPG by Lincoln Yeutter. With Joey Reilly coming on board the simple change would be that he gets the 8 minutes. Things are never that simple. Is it a given that Lowder will be the starter/get the most minutes at point guard? I like the idea of the two freshmen competing for the minutes—-May the more effective guard win....
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Post by hchoops on Aug 18, 2019 21:47:39 GMT -5
Lowder is far more likely to receive the bulk of the minutes, but probably not as high as 32. I believe Wg posted 25-30, far more likely, esp considering we will probably play at least.some man d, which puts all players esp point guards pressuring the ball, more prone to fouling, as well as need for rest.
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Post by longsuffering on Aug 18, 2019 23:58:18 GMT -5
Reilly is playing with house money. He has no pressure on him. Lowder and Wade have received a large build-up. On the other hand they are not Nelson's recruits. Coach will give everyone a chance to compete and see what gels. How the new guards can hit threes against D-1 defenses is a relative unknown right now.
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Post by hc6774 on Aug 19, 2019 6:51:11 GMT -5
Reilly is playing with house money. He has no pressure on him. Lowder and Wade have received a large build-up. On the other hand they are not Nelson's recruits. Coach will give everyone a chance to compete and see what gels. How the new guards can hit threes against D-1 defenses is a relative unknown right now. For Reilly it's an opportunity to play near home that wasn't there until Green departed. I think you can see it as an investment by Nelson in this roster. I.e he needs depth at pg so that this roster can be completive next season.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Aug 19, 2019 7:25:53 GMT -5
How the new guards can hit threes against D-1 defenses is a relative unknown right now. The four top returnees - Butler, Faw, Copeland, and Niego - were a collective 114-318 from deep last year - nearly 36%, which is quite good enough. I doubt any of the frosh can hit at that rate, but it's not critically important that they do.
Personally, I'm more interested in seeing major improvements defensively and on the glass, and hoping for a style of play that emphasizes attacking the rim rather than putzing around the perimeter.
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Post by Xmassader on Aug 19, 2019 8:41:06 GMT -5
IIRC, the 3 pt. line is being moved back to 22 ft. this season (15 inches farther back than the college line in ‘18-‘19 and 27 inches farther back than the high school line). We don’t know how individual players, particularly the freshmen, will react to the change. Hopefully, a greater emphasis on defense and rebounding (especially offensive rebounding) and Coach Nelson’s talents as a shooting coach will minimize any drop in 3pt. shooting % or the impact from it.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Aug 19, 2019 10:21:53 GMT -5
PG. Lowder, Reilly, Yeutter SG. Butler, Wade, Copeland, Le Sann SF. Pridgen, Hart PF. Niego, Hargis, Lovisolo, Sandy
C. Faw, Verbeek
Bump. Let's talk about the team. Aside from Hargis, who we haven't seen play a meaningful minute, none of the players who are not in bold are even average defenders at the positions where they are listed. It will be very interesting to see Nelson is able to do on defense until he is able to turn the roster over with more guys who can defend.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Aug 19, 2019 10:51:28 GMT -5
Right you are, you've got the definitive answer on every one of these players. For example, Lincoln Yeutter played three minutes in garbage time last season in another defensive system and that was sufficient for you to conclude that he was certain to be a poor defender in whatever system Coach Nelson will put in place this year. Same holds true for the other players, right, no matter how many minutes you observed them playing last season? Nine players and not one of them is even average---what are the odds of that? Amazing-
Prediction: Reilly will be the only player you like all season because he has no association with Coach Carmody.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Aug 19, 2019 11:31:30 GMT -5
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Post by hchoops on Aug 19, 2019 11:40:34 GMT -5
Thanks Hopefully the weights of the bigs will also be updated at some point.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Aug 19, 2019 12:24:14 GMT -5
Right you are, you've got the definitive answer on every one of these players. For example, Lincoln Yeutter played three minutes in garbage time last season in another defensive system and that was sufficient for you to conclude that he was certain to be a poor defender in whatever system Coach Nelson will put in place this year. Same holds true for the other players, right, no matter how many minutes you observed them playing last season? Nine players and not one of them is even average---what are the odds of that? Amazing- Prediction: Reilly will be the only player you like all season because he has no association with Coach Carmody. Yeutter is a walk-on who didn't get minutes on the last place PL team (what was that Chris Spitler quote about being the worst player on the worst team in America?) -- that tells me everything I need to know. I am excited to see Reilly and the Michigan guys and am hopeful that they (along with Coach Nelson & Evans) will inject a level of aggressiveness and toughness that has been sorely missing from the program. Expectations are low other than that, and I hope I'm proven wrong. Prediction: You will some day realize that the people who questioned the job that Bill Carmody was doing at HC were (unfortunately) right.
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Post by hcpride on Aug 19, 2019 12:50:06 GMT -5
/\ I don’t think it is outrageous to suggest the returnees from last year’s last place PL team might be below-average PL players on defense (and offense) .
(FWIW JF was an excellent PL player and Grandy was an average to above average PL player IMHO...but they are gone)
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Post by southernsader on Aug 19, 2019 13:57:00 GMT -5
/\ I don’t think it is outrageous to suggest the returnees from last year’s last place PL team might be below-average PL players on defense (and offense) . (FWIW JF was an excellent PL player and Grandy was an average to above average PL player IMHO...but they are gone) Not a shot at JF, who was a warrior who did a great job for us, but speaking just in general, JMO, but there is no such thing as an "excellent" basketball player who can't make free throws.
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Post by res on Aug 19, 2019 14:07:32 GMT -5
I thought Wilt was at least "OK". Shaq, too.
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Post by hcpride on Aug 19, 2019 15:20:25 GMT -5
/\ I don’t think it is outrageous to suggest the returnees from last year’s last place PL team might be below-average PL players on defense (and offense) . (FWIW JF was an excellent PL player and Grandy was an average to above average PL player IMHO...but they are gone) Not a shot at JF, who was a warrior who did a great job for us, but speaking just in general, JMO, but there is no such thing as an "excellent" basketball player who can't make free throws. Note the actual quote "an excellent PL Player". Speaking just in general I'd say a guy who is the 2-time PL DEF Player of the Year who led the PL in blocks and was sixth in the PL in rebounding (and 2nd team All PL Offense whose .659 career field goal percentage is the best career mark in Patriot League history) can safely be described as an "excellent PL Player".
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Post by bison137 on Aug 19, 2019 15:23:06 GMT -5
Not a shot at JF, who was a warrior who did a great job for us, but speaking just in general, JMO, but there is no such thing as an "excellent" basketball player who can't make free throws. Note the actual quote "an excellent PL Player". Speaking just in general I'd say a guy who is the 2-time PL Player of the Year (and 2nd team All PL Offense whose .659 career field goal percentage is the best career mark in Patriot League history) with can safely be described as an "excellent PL Player". I think you meant 2-time defensive POY. Floyd, as I'm sure you know, never made 1st team All-PL, never mind POY. (Note that the PL does not have an All-PL offensive team.) Having said that, I agree he was an excellent player - one who would have thrived in a different system.
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Post by DiMarz on Aug 19, 2019 15:23:26 GMT -5
The big question in my mind is what will the re-incarnation of the team be? A fast paced shoot 'em style, an aggressive dribble-drive and kick, straight up motion? And what will we look like on D? Switching pressure? Man? match-up? zone pressures? gadgets? Something different every night? Will we see a short bench or a platoon system? If I were in Coach Nelson's position, I'd use multiple defenses all the time, change on every dead ball, time out, free throw...The players at HC are smart and can handle the changing D's. This would give teams so much to prepare for, and then go with the most successful for the night at crunch time....Coach did say he and his staff had a lot of evaluating to do, hopefully they will discover some precious eggs in the basket! The problem with the multiple defenses is the more you play many,ds, the less time you have to practice any 1 or maybe a secondary one. better to use the practice and early OOC games to pick a primary and secondary D, and stick with them. Hoops, In todays game, I think teams that play just one or two d's are too easy to prepare for...That was one of my negative with Coach Carmody, too easy to prepare for the 1-3-1..Many teams play similar zones spread over the court, a base 2-3, a half court trap (1-3-1), a 3/4 court 2-2-1 and a full court zone of some kind..Same basic principals in each zone, but just a bigger area to cover..Same for the m2m...lets say a helping m2m inside the 3 pt. arc, then doubling the ball in the top corners just over the half court line, and a run and jump in the full court pressure...One has to build the defenses from the basket out....Playing like this, frequently changing up the look, means teams have to prepare for a lot of looks..Not easy to do.... Change up the D on dead balls, off made free throws and coming out of time outs...Today's players can handle that type of mental game easily, and it wears on the opponent....This is what Coach Willard did with his match-up..Each night that m2m2 looked different and reacted differently from game to game..That is why teams didn't want to play against it...(It is what the Patriots do!)...
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Post by bison137 on Aug 19, 2019 15:25:45 GMT -5
But there are a number of good teams that only play M2M. They just try to do it really well.
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Post by DiMarz on Aug 19, 2019 15:33:57 GMT -5
But there are a number of good teams that only play M2M. They just try to do it really well. IF a team has superior quickness over and opponent, they can dictate what they want to do...But when they meet a team that is equal to them, to be successful, they have to have something else in their bag of tricks....HC played their 1-3-1 through the Patriot League Tourney and a win in the NCAA, but that run ended against Oregon's superior athletes....and HC didn't have an answer for them..... A team can certainly live with one very good D, (Syracuse comes to mind), but eventually the team needs a different look....
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