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Post by hcpride on Jan 19, 2020 10:12:18 GMT -5
LIU Merrimack Sacred Heart Please make it stop Sacred Heart is like 7-0 in the Patriot League the last 5 years. Bbbbbbut 65 short years ago we played and beat Syracuse and Boston College (and Dayton, Marquette, and the Quantico Marines) the very same year. "Sacred Heart and Monmouth are sooooo beneath us in football"...says nobody who has been paying attention to PL football lately.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jan 19, 2020 12:37:52 GMT -5
Merrimack has recently moved up to FCS, and appears to only two OOC games scheduled for next year. Unfortunately, they are at JMU and UNH (aggressive scheduling), so I would guess that they would probably host a D2 team as the third team. Presbyterian seems to have several openings on their schedule being an FCS independent which would certainly be a bizarre matchup. Sacred Heart looks like they have an opening. Now moving dates around might be tricky... I noticed Merrimack's counterpart (entered NEC football together), LIU, was pretty aggressive in their own scheduling this year as they played South Dakota State and Villanova. Unfortunately they (LIU) are booked September 5 as they are playing Montana State. FWIW they are also playing Delaware and Lehigh this year. On fbsschedules, the HC open date is Sept 26. According to the same site, Sacred Heart is @ Stony Brook on Sept 26th. LIU is at Lehigh. Bryant is at FBS Central Michigan. CCSU is at Toledo. For Merrimack, that site lists only JMU and UNH. Only three OOC foes listed for Marist, and none of these games are on Sept. 26. University of San Diego, which beat Harvard last year, has only three games listed, none on Sept 26.
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Post by bfoley82 on Jan 19, 2020 12:39:52 GMT -5
I really don't want to play Merrimack anytime soon...sorry, not sorry. Merrimack will be better than HC in athletics across the board within five years. What is the problem with playing them? Maybe force a hockey series out of it. Already ahead of Holy Cross in men’s basketball!
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Post by hcpride on Jan 19, 2020 12:50:04 GMT -5
I noticed Merrimack's counterpart (entered NEC football together), LIU, was pretty aggressive in their own scheduling this year as they played South Dakota State and Villanova. Unfortunately they (LIU) are booked September 5 as they are playing Montana State. FWIW they are also playing Delaware and Lehigh this year. On fbsschedules, the HC open date is Sept 26. According to the same site, Sacred Heart is @ Stony Brook on Sept 26th. LIU is at Lehigh. Bryant is at FBS Central Michigan. CCSU is at Toledo. For Merrimack, that site lists only JMU and UNH. Only three OOC foes listed for Marist, and none of these games are on Sept. 26. University of San Diego, which beat Harvard last year, has only three games listed, none on Sept 26. FWIW earlier in this thread a possibility of switching our open/unscheduled date from SEP 26 to the open AUG 29th was discussed as a possible way to book another foe. That would give us a warmup game prior to thrashing BC. It was also noted we have an open date October 31 so there is some flexibility.
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Post by hc87 on Jan 19, 2020 13:14:29 GMT -5
For the record, I'm not averse to scheduling Merrimack (or Bryant, LIU, Wagner etc) in a pinch. Our OOC year to year is going to be mostly formidable with usually 2 of the bettah Ivies (Harvard and Yale), an FBS opponent, some years a CAA school etc....the team could use a break/breather (as compared to other OOC opponents anyway) in the schedule.
As a "rule" though, we should schedule no more than 1 school per year from the NEC, Pioneer, MEAC etc.
Our OOC template in an 11 game schedule should closely follow: 2 or 3 Ivies FBS game CAA game Other: NEC, Pioneer, MEAC
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Post by hcpride on Jan 19, 2020 13:27:53 GMT -5
/\ /\ I’d rather see 2ish Ivies and 3ish CAA (UNH, Maine, Villanova, etc.) each year and a lower-tier FBS when we have to. (And a NEC if that doesn’t work out - and NEC teams can be tough opponents BTW)
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Post by nhteamer on Jan 19, 2020 13:31:35 GMT -5
i don't care that they are 7-0 against the PL
Interest in HC football is lower than I would hope.
Keep playing Wagner, Sacred Heart, CCSU, LIU, etc. and it will be zero.
Sad
True
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Post by hc87 on Jan 19, 2020 13:34:25 GMT -5
LOL...essentially my thought with HC hoop sadly....
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 19, 2020 13:43:02 GMT -5
I'm no doubt missing something, but I don't know what the magic of an eleventh game is (assuming that the PL champ doesn't need to play eleven games) if we can't find an opponent that makes sense. It's not as though we're likely to attract a school that will fill Fitton. If it's even a home game. (For many years now, HC football schedules have had us playing more than 50% of our games on the road every year. What's up with that...especially considering that Fitton is 15th by size on the national list of FCS stadia and a venue with a long, long tradition and track record!?!) We need to remember what we've been over many, many decades and what we hope to become yet again under Coach Chesney. That means eschewing schools like LIU, Merrimack, Sacred Heart and numerous other Eastern schools I could mention. Playing such institutions only confirms that HC is a has been in college football. It means...and it means emphatically...continuing to schedule schools comparable to HC...not only academically but in terms of football history and current commitment to the sport. We're looking to move up and none of the schools mentioned to fill a one Saturday gap will help with that in any way. In saying that, I don't mean to disparage any of those schools in any way. It's just to say that, despite recent travails, HC has an estimable long term track record in the upper echelons of Eastern college football that we shouldn't piss away by playing down. If we can't identify an appropriate opponent for the eleventh game in 2020, let's just forget an eleventh game. Holy Cross must find an 11th opponent for the 2020 season. If Holy Cross has serious playoff aspirations playing a full 11 game schedule of D1 opponents is extremely important for numerous reasons. Should they drop a league game and finish 8-2 or 7-3 they will not get the benefit of the doubt since they willingly decided not to COMPETE for an 11th time like other potential at-large candidates did. If Holy Cross has a great season it would also prevent the Crusaders from garnering a seed consideration. If it was common knowledge that the PL Champion (aka the Patsie League) or PL at-large contender opted not to play an 11th game because they were "too good" for the D1 options available the HC football program and athletic department would look beyond foolish. With that said, there is kinda-sorta precedent for the 10 game line of thinking. Colgate dropped Bryant in 2016 following their 2015 playoff run and failed to find a replacement. They ended up playing 10 games and finished a fitting kissing your sister 5-5. After starting the season in the Top 15, 2016 ended up being a major disappointment for Colgate in many ways. "Enschewing" schools by not scheduling schools like Merrimack, Sacred Heart, LIU, Central Connecticut State etc because of some ridiculous unearned sense of superiority is just the most off the wall whacky thing I've read all week. Especially given Holy Cross's track record in 1-AA/FCS the last 25 years, the Patriot League's current place in the FCS pecking order and the fact the top programs in FCS schedule those programs. The current OOC slate of Brown, Harvard, Yale and BC is solid but certainly not going to garner Holy Cross a tremendous amount of respect nationally unless Yale or Harvard turn out to be a legit, widely regarded Top 10-15 level Ancient 8 team. If I'm a HC fan I would certainly like to see a quality CAA, MVFC, SoCon or Big Sky team added to get a better idea of where their chips stack up nationally. If that's not an option then a NEC or PFL team will have to do. The NEC and PL are basically about the same competitively at this point anyway. Plus, there's a reasonable chance the PL and NEC champ meet up in the playoffs. It happened in 2012, 2013 and 2014. This is a big year for Holy Cross and Chesney. Winning the PL and getting to the playoffs was nice but now can the Crusaders build off of it with a legitimately good Top 25 team that's capable of winning a game or two in the playoffs? Getting back there is no sure thing. Colgate will likely be there to pounce if Holy Cross produces another 2019 type season 2020. I'm big follower and supporter of PL and FCS football. Right now Holy Cross looks like the league's best hope to save face nationally because they have the best coach. The window with Chesney is simply not big so this year or next could be the all chances you get until he bolts. Need to make the most of it. I do think an 8 or 9 win To 25 level season is possible if Holy Cross takes a significant step forward in 2020. It's hard to envision the PL overall being much better in 2020. Still a lot of dumb rules, bad coaches and indifferent administrations imo. My fingers are crossed there's at least more than one team that finishes the 2020 campaign with a winning record. No offense, but isn’t looking for national respect and playing 1-AA football an oxymoron? I understand that us HC fans are a bit (or a lot) delusional, but playing teams like Merrimack, Sacred Heart, etc. does nothing for growing the program. Alums don’t care and locals don’t care. There were two times that someone other than a diehard fan noticed anything about HC football last year: the Navy game and the Syracuse game. The real way for HC to become relevant (or as relevant as possible at the 1-AA level) is by competing well in these 1-A games when casual fans are paying attention, and then playing the best possible 1-AA schedule we can put together (meaning no teams like Merrimack, Sacred Heart, etc.) to try and maintain that interest from these new eyeballs. If Harvard/Yale/Penn/Princeton/etc. went 0-fer next year and Merrimack or Sacred Heart went undefeated, and you asked a casual fan who has a better football team, the answer would be the former. Only the diehard fans (few in number) are paying attention to the 1-AA top 25 and understand conference trends.
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Post by lehighowl on Jan 19, 2020 15:44:47 GMT -5
Holy Cross must find an 11th opponent for the 2020 season. If Holy Cross has serious playoff aspirations playing a full 11 game schedule of D1 opponents is extremely important for numerous reasons. Should they drop a league game and finish 8-2 or 7-3 they will not get the benefit of the doubt since they willingly decided not to COMPETE for an 11th time like other potential at-large candidates did. If Holy Cross has a great season it would also prevent the Crusaders from garnering a seed consideration. If it was common knowledge that the PL Champion (aka the Patsie League) or PL at-large contender opted not to play an 11th game because they were "too good" for the D1 options available the HC football program and athletic department would look beyond foolish. With that said, there is kinda-sorta precedent for the 10 game line of thinking. Colgate dropped Bryant in 2016 following their 2015 playoff run and failed to find a replacement. They ended up playing 10 games and finished a fitting kissing your sister 5-5. After starting the season in the Top 15, 2016 ended up being a major disappointment for Colgate in many ways. "Enschewing" schools by not scheduling schools like Merrimack, Sacred Heart, LIU, Central Connecticut State etc because of some ridiculous unearned sense of superiority is just the most off the wall whacky thing I've read all week. Especially given Holy Cross's track record in 1-AA/FCS the last 25 years, the Patriot League's current place in the FCS pecking order and the fact the top programs in FCS schedule those programs. The current OOC slate of Brown, Harvard, Yale and BC is solid but certainly not going to garner Holy Cross a tremendous amount of respect nationally unless Yale or Harvard turn out to be a legit, widely regarded Top 10-15 level Ancient 8 team. If I'm a HC fan I would certainly like to see a quality CAA, MVFC, SoCon or Big Sky team added to get a better idea of where their chips stack up nationally. If that's not an option then a NEC or PFL team will have to do. The NEC and PL are basically about the same competitively at this point anyway. Plus, there's a reasonable chance the PL and NEC champ meet up in the playoffs. It happened in 2012, 2013 and 2014. This is a big year for Holy Cross and Chesney. Winning the PL and getting to the playoffs was nice but now can the Crusaders build off of it with a legitimately good Top 25 team that's capable of winning a game or two in the playoffs? Getting back there is no sure thing. Colgate will likely be there to pounce if Holy Cross produces another 2019 type season 2020. I'm big follower and supporter of PL and FCS football. Right now Holy Cross looks like the league's best hope to save face nationally because they have the best coach. The window with Chesney is simply not big so this year or next could be the all chances you get until he bolts. Need to make the most of it. I do think an 8 or 9 win To 25 level season is possible if Holy Cross takes a significant step forward in 2020. It's hard to envision the PL overall being much better in 2020. Still a lot of dumb rules, bad coaches and indifferent administrations imo. My fingers are crossed there's at least more than one team that finishes the 2020 campaign with a winning record. No offense, but isn’t looking for national respect and playing 1-AA football an oxymoron? I understand that us HC fans are a bit (or a lot) delusional, but playing teams like Merrimack, Sacred Heart, etc. does nothing for growing the program. Alums don’t care and locals don’t care. There were two times that someone other than a diehard fan noticed anything about HC football last year: the Navy game and the Syracuse game. The real way for HC to become relevant (or as relevant as possible at the 1-AA level) is by competing well in these 1-A games when casual fans are paying attention, and then playing the best possible 1-AA schedule we can put together (meaning no teams like Merrimack, Sacred Heart, etc.) to try and maintain that interest from these new eyeballs. If Harvard/Yale/Penn/Princeton/etc. went 0-fer next year and Merrimack or Sacred Heart went undefeated, and you asked a casual fan who has a better football team, the answer would be the former. Only the diehard fans (few in number) are paying attention to the 1-AA top 25 and understand conference trends. Absolutely not! There's national respect gained at the 1-AA level, just like at the D2 and D3 level and every other sport down to gymnastics and swimming and diving. Lehigh, Colgate and Fordham have garnered plenty of national respect at the 1-AA/FCS level in recent years. Colgate had a nationally televised playoff game with North Dakota State last year on ESPN. The one thing I noticed about the HC football program (athletics in general) is the propensity for its followers to live more in a regional bubble tied back to years gone by. It's not so much about success as it is association. I think those those who support athletics at Colgate, Lehigh, Lafayette, Fordham and Bucknell etc simply want to win and really don't care who that success comes against once they're done with league games. In general, I get an overall indifference to the FCS playoffs too relative to other PL schools. I think HC's lack of history in them (even turning down an invite in the 80s) makes it easier to dismiss them. The reality is Holy Cross plays in the PL so they are severely hamstrung by its rules. You simply can't have your cake and eat it too with this setup. The PL at this point has more in common with the NEC and PFL than it does the CAA, MVFC, Big Sky etc. Montana, JMU, Illinois State, Villanova, Eastern Washington etc will schedule HC because it's an easy win just like Merrimack, St. Francis, Butler, Morgan State etc would be. Holy Cross has no room to look down at scheduling perceived "lesser programs" when they themselves are a lesser program. Trust me, their fans have little interest in playing a PL program. That's the sad reality and trust me it pisses me off to no end. The move to scholarships has the league on competitive life support. I personally think Holy Cross is one of those unique examples that could survive as an independent FCS program due what really matters to the institution and its supporters. It would allow the Crusaders to schedule who they want to, they don't have to live by the idiotic PL rules and if the playoffs come about great, if not perhaps even better......
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Post by timholycross on Jan 19, 2020 15:54:07 GMT -5
The only rule I don't like following, Lehighbowl, is the AI. I don't understand why it exists. Wasn't the league formed by presidents (Brooks being one of them) that committed to being in charge of their respective schools? How can that be true and they didn't/don't trust each other?
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Post by hcpride on Jan 19, 2020 16:15:22 GMT -5
/\ I think it (academic index) is an offshoot of Fr Brooks' unrequited Ivy envy. (And I say that as someone who had many conversations with Father Brooks back in the 80's.)
Without it HC could show a little discretion - especially towards solid high character football kids who successfully navigate Catholic high schools (for example) but don't do so well on the boards - those are the very kids that might favor us over secular alternatives.
(Many of the top schools in America maintain their sterling academic reputations without an AI)
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Post by timholycross on Jan 19, 2020 16:42:47 GMT -5
(Many of the top schools in America maintain their sterling academic reputations without an AI) Exactly.
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Post by lehighowl on Jan 19, 2020 16:43:03 GMT -5
/\ I think it (academic index) is an offshoot of Fr Brooks' unrequited Ivy envy. (And I say that as someone who had many conversations with Father Brooks back in the 80's.) Without it HC could show a little discretion - especially towards solid high character football kids who successfully navigate Catholic high schools (for example) but don't do so well on the boards ---those are the very kids that might favor us over secular alternatives. (Many of the top schools in America maintain their sterling academic reputations without an AI) The AI is certainly ridiculous but when it comes to putting a consistently strong FCS program together it's only part of the problem. Lack of redshirts and the roster limits are also major hurdles that have proven to be extremely difficult to overcome. Even without the AI Villanova, W&M, Wofford, Richmond, Furman etc have a hard time building depth. It's just really tough to find 60/63 really good FCS players that want to deal with the stresses of a tough school. For their sake, those schools can redshirt and are more liberal with transfers to make up for the lack of recruiting depth. I can't speak for Colgate but when Lehigh had Top 10 level non-scholarship teams they were able to load up on capable bodies to blend in with a few legit All-American level FCS players. The "Air Lehigh" reputation helped to attract FBS level talent on offense. Colgate also forged a strong identity under Biddle which helped to attract the "right" recruit to Hamilton. The Tom Osborne method of inner-competition during Higgins and Lembo era led to some tremendous overachievers at Lehigh . At This level, especially in the PL, you need a lot of guys who can out kick their coverage. That's why coaching is sooo important! When you can't redshirt you need to make up for the lost year of development some how. Chesney seems like the type of guy who can bring in a handful of studs and raise the level of the others! Sadly I can't say the same for Gilmore...lol
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 19, 2020 21:06:07 GMT -5
Does Holy Cross have any restrictions on where they play? It seems to play a very parochial group of schools within New England, and would get more attention getting on a schedule outside the Northeast at Duke (playing Elon this year) or Northwestern (playing Morgan State) than scheduling Sacred Heart or Merrimack.
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Post by timholycross on Jan 19, 2020 22:35:35 GMT -5
I don't think HC wants 2 FBS opponents in a season as a general rule.
Aside from that, you'd think an occasional trip to another part of the country would be a good recruiting tool. Especially if you could do it at the beginning or end of that vacation week.
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 19, 2020 22:41:08 GMT -5
I don't think HC wants 2 FBS opponents in a season as a general rule. Aside from that, you'd think an occasional trip to another part of the country would be a good recruiting tool. Especially if you could do it at the beginning or end of that vacation week. That's why Dartmouth is geographically diversifying it's OOC games, according to published, or unpublished reports. Can't remember exactly where I heard or read that.
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Post by Ignutz on Jan 19, 2020 23:45:59 GMT -5
Not sure why, but for years I’ve thought we should play Rice. Nice trip to Houston, very good academic school, an FBS opponent (but not someone really ridiculous), and probably a decent check for the effort. Another option might be Northwestern - Illinois instead of Texas, but otherwise, the same characteristics.
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Post by hcpride on Jan 20, 2020 6:36:01 GMT -5
Not sure why, but for years I’ve thought we should play Rice. Nice trip to Houston, very good academic school, an FBS opponent (but not someone really ridiculous), and probably a decent check for the effort. Another option might be Northwestern - Illinois instead of Texas, but otherwise, the same characteristics. I've thought the same (as long as we must play an FBS) and would add Wake Forest (they are playing Villanova next year) year and Vanderbilt (they are playing Mercer next year and Nashville is a great place to visit).
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Jan 20, 2020 7:46:04 GMT -5
Apparently some think HC can simply pick & choose what schools they play; bust a call to their AD and its a done deal. That's not how it works. It takes another school agreeing to play, and a huge amount of logistics to be hammered out for starters.
As an example- reason HC played UM Boston in hoops earlier this year is because they tried but were unable to secure a road game on the way back from San Diego.
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Post by hcpride on Jan 20, 2020 7:51:32 GMT -5
Apparently some think HC can simply pick & choose what schools they play; bust a call to their AD and its a done deal. That's not how it works. It takes another school agreeing to play, and a huge amount of logistics to be hammered out for starters. Nobody thinks that. If it is any comfort, I don't really think we'll see Rice, Wake Forest, Vanderbilt, or Northwestern on the schedule any time soon (if ever).
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Post by timholycross on Jan 20, 2020 8:20:48 GMT -5
Apparently some think HC can simply pick & choose what schools they play; bust a call to their AD and its a done deal. That's not how it works. It takes another school agreeing to play, and a huge amount of logistics to be hammered out for starters. As an example- reason HC played UM Boston in hoops earlier this year is because they tried but were unable to secure a road game on the way back from San Diego. Too bad that initiative failed....only thing I can think of that was good about the UMB loss was that it for the most part went unnoticed.
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Post by bigfan on Jan 20, 2020 8:20:57 GMT -5
If Umass can schedule Georgia, maybe we could play LSU or Alabama for one million dollars.
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Post by timholycross on Jan 20, 2020 8:26:33 GMT -5
BCS patsies command much larger fees than FCS, although the FCS guarantees are still substantial. And you can only play one FCS school a year and have it count.
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Post by nhteamer on Jan 20, 2020 9:25:35 GMT -5
Does Holy Cross have any restrictions on where they play? It seems to play a very parochial group of schools within New England, and would get more attention getting on a schedule outside the Northeast at Duke (playing Elon this year) or Northwestern (playing Morgan State) than scheduling Sacred Heart or Merrimack. A disease endemic to Mt St. James: myopia
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