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Post by efg72 on Jan 20, 2020 9:35:37 GMT -5
Will take a game with Rice They look to have openings in 24 and 25
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Post by hcpride on Jan 20, 2020 9:46:43 GMT -5
/\ Apparently (who knew?) it is not as simple as wanting to play - there are all sorts of complications and agreements involved. Off the topic but Rice (Conference USA) is yet another example of a school not defined by the academic reputation of some of its football conference members.
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Post by td128 on Jan 20, 2020 9:48:01 GMT -5
In an attempt to provide a degree of perspective to the conversation, I welcome highlighting the following points regarding our current Holy Cross Football program:
1. A young, dynamic and energetic head coach for whom the players clearly like to play.
2. A PLC in Year 2 of the Chesney-era. Oh my.
3. Quality of incoming recruits is higher than what has been experienced atop Mt. St. James in a long time.
4. Highly attractive future schedules replete with games against traditional rivals, selected BCS games, and league games. To focus on one game as yet unannounced to potentially spoil the overall quality of these schedules is the ultimate in focusing on a sapling amidst a bountiful forest.
5. Facilities that a year ago were ranked among the ABSOLUTE BEST NEW facilities in the nation including the top BCS programs.
6. An Alumni Mentoring Program that is best in class and is firing on all cylinders in terms of impacting our recruiting, our current student-athletes' development, and recent alumni career growth.
7. An energized alumni that has reconnected with the program in a big way as exemplified by the turnout at events, festivities, and games.
I appreciate that there were many long days walking lonely through that desert wondering if anybody atop Mt. St. James actually cared about Holy Cross Football but those days are now in the past and days of being perennial league champs, attracting ever more qualified future Crusaders, and transforming the program and by extension the college are right in front of us.
I welcome helping further energize the supporters of Holy Cross Football so that the administration has no other choice but to get on board and ride this train to the promised land. In the process, one can only hope that the administration gains an even greater appreciation for what vibrant and successful athletic programs mean to the health and well being of the campus community and the college at large.
For those who want to get distracted by one game as yet unannounced , I think you are missing out on what is a thoroughly enjoyable ride but we still have seats available in case you care to get on board.
LET'S WIN!!
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Post by hcpride on Jan 20, 2020 9:52:10 GMT -5
/\ Don't confuse off-season musings (fantastical and otherwise) regarding an open football date with pessimism towards our football program.
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Post by purplehaze on Jan 20, 2020 9:57:51 GMT -5
Thanks, td for offering the proper perspective on this - this 12 page thread is really too much - let's move on and wait for ADMB to do his job and maybe we can just be quiet for a little while.
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 20, 2020 10:00:51 GMT -5
Thanks, td for offering the proper perspective on this - this 12 page thread is really too much - let's move on and wait for ADMB to do his job and maybe we can just be quiet for a little while. Based on our past performance...that (being quiet) is asking an awful lot of us.
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Post by efg72 on Jan 20, 2020 10:03:44 GMT -5
Lol
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Post by Chu Chu on Jan 20, 2020 10:28:21 GMT -5
td not only "gets it", he helped to make it happen! Thanks, td, and #GoCross
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Post by Xmassader on Jan 20, 2020 13:28:03 GMT -5
If we’re going to play a BCS team once a year, why not the Georgia Bulldogs in Athens. Should be good weather, a bigger payday than BC, UCONN, Navy or Syracuse, greater visibility on the national scene and an opportunity for Georgia to get “off the schneid” vs. HC in the all-time series 😊 (which HC leads 3-0).
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Post by hcpride on Jan 20, 2020 13:46:47 GMT -5
If we’re going to play a BCS team once a year, why not the Georgia Bulldogs in Athens. Should be good weather, a bigger payday than BC, UCONN, Navy or Syracuse, greater visibility on the national scene and an opportunity for Georgia to get “off the schneid” vs. HC in the all-time series 😊 (which HC leads 3-0). I'm not sure if you are serious, but don't think of it as an either-or proposition. We played two BCS games this year. We could play BC (for example) AND Georgia. Double the national exposure. Realistically (after reviewing this past season and eyeballing the respective incoming recruits), I don't see us beating Georgia next season so the series would likely go to 3-1.
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 20, 2020 13:55:41 GMT -5
I believe that is a safe call.
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Post by moose1970 on Jan 20, 2020 13:59:40 GMT -5
If we’re going to play a BCS team once a year, why not the Georgia Bulldogs in Athens. Should be good weather, a bigger payday than BC, UCONN, Navy or Syracuse, greater visibility on the national scene and an opportunity for Georgia to get “off the schneid” vs. HC in the all-time series 😊 (which HC leads 3-0). I'm not sure if you are serious, but don't think of it as an either-or proposition. We played two BCS games this year. We could play BC (for example) AND Georgia. Double the national exposure. Realistically (after reviewing this past season and eyeballing the respective incoming recruits), I don't see us beating Georgia next season so the series would likely go to 3-1. the last time we played the georgia bulldogs in football was 1939. there may be a reason for that? do you think they are still seething over our 3 game win streak?
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 20, 2020 14:16:12 GMT -5
Those who saw it may be...but that would not be a large crowd today.
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Post by nhteamer on Jan 20, 2020 14:27:58 GMT -5
I want td128 to be the next Holy Cross president
Actually, no, I'm not kidding.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jan 20, 2020 14:31:14 GMT -5
The only rule I don't like following, Lehighbowl, is the AI. I don't understand why it exists. Wasn't the league formed by presidents (Brooks being one of them) that committed to being in charge of their respective schools? How can that be true and they didn't/don't trust each other? The AI exists because without the AI, it is a race to the bottom, and HC is at a disadvantage being liberal arts as well as asserting that is academically rigorous. In the AI bands for football, the standard deviation for the low band is two sigma, meaning that for an athlete whose high school grades and test scores place him/her at the bottom of the low band, 95.5 percent of the students matriculating with that particular athlete will have an AI 'score' higher than that athlete. A recruit who is in the low band can be admitted to HC. A recruit with an AI score lower than that, i.e., with an AI score that is in the low low band -- or more than two standard deviations from the school-wide AI -- could still be admitted and play a sport, PROVIDED the athlete's AI score is above the AI floor for the PL, which is 168. (The AI range is 80-220, with 80 being a score for someone who received the minimum score on the SATs, which is 400, and a GPA of 1.0.) A standard deviation of 2.5 sigma would mean that about 99 percent of the matriculating students would have an AI score higher than the recruit. Of an entering class of 800, the recruit would probably be in the bottom six/seven of that class. The problem becomes the amount of time a student-athlete devotes to his/her sport over the course of the academic year. An academic ally weak student is spending x hours per week on his/her sport, which often represents a substantial percentage of his/her waking hours. This means less time for the athlete to keep himself in good academic standing. How do some academically rigorous schools, without an AI, address this situation? One approach is to 'tutor' the student through his/her four years of attendance. This is the study "lounge" in a new athletic center for a PL football school. This is basically a study hall, and surrounding the main study area, are, IIRC, five or six rooms (of which one is shown in the photo). Several of the rooms are large enough for mentoring /tutoring / advising a small group of athletes, and others are offices of the tutors. I remember measuring the rough size of the study lounge when I reviewed the plans, but I can't recall how many square feet it is. Maybe 3,000 sq ft?? In this photo, the lounge is on the second floor, three-four windows long to the right of the corner, and three- four windows long on the left. Finally, I cannot recall seeing a complaint about the AI interfering with recruiting in any sport other than football. (True, I have seen mentions (but not a complaint) about the AI keeping recruits for certain IL sports other than football from being admitted.) HC seems to take great pride in its APR; I very much doubt that the school would take any action that would materially detract from its APR achievements.
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Post by gks on Jan 20, 2020 14:35:40 GMT -5
The only rule I don't like following, Lehighbowl, is the AI. I don't understand why it exists. Wasn't the league formed by presidents (Brooks being one of them) that committed to being in charge of their respective schools? How can that be true and they didn't/don't trust each other? The AI exists because without the AI, it is a race to the bottom, and HC is at a disadvantage being liberal arts as well as asserting that is academically rigorous. In the AI bands for football, the standard deviation for the low band is two sigma, meaning that for an athlete whose high school grades and test scores place him/her at the bottom of the low band, 95.5 percent of the students matriculating with that particular athlete will have an AI 'score' higher than that athlete. A recruit who is in the low band can be admitted to HC. A recruit with an AI score lower than that, i.e., with an AI score that is in the low low band -- or more than two standard deviations from the school-wide AI -- could still be admitted and play a sport, PROVIDED the athlete's AI score is above the AI floor for the PL, which is 168. (The AI range is 80-220, with 80 being a score for someone who received the minimum score on the SATs, which is 400, and a GPA of 1.0.) A standard deviation of 2.5 sigma would mean that about 99 percent of the matriculating students would have an AI score higher than the recruit. Of an entering class of 800, the recruit would probably be in the bottom six/seven of that class. The problem becomes the amount of time a student-athlete devotes to his/her sport over the course of the academic year. An academic ally weak student is spending x hours per week on his/her sport, which often represents a substantial percentage of his/her waking hours. This means less time for the athlete to keep himself in good academic standing. How do some academically rigorous schools, without an AI, address this situation? One approach is to 'tutor' the student through his/her four years of attendance. This is the study "lounge" in a new athletic center for a PL football school. This is basically a study hall, and surrounding the main study area, are, IIRC, five or six rooms (of which one is shown in the photo). Several of the rooms are large enough for mentoring /tutoring / advising a small group of athletes, and others are offices of the tutors. I remember measuring the rough size of the study lounge when I reviewed the plans, but I can't recall how many square feet it is. Maybe 3,000 sq ft?? In this photo, the lounge is on the second floor, three-four windows long to the right of the corner, and three- four windows long on the left. Finally, I cannot recall seeing a complaint about the AI interfering with recruiting in any sport other than football. (True, I have seen mentions (but not a complaint) about the AI keeping recruits for certain IL sports other than football from being admitted.) HC seems to take great pride in its APR; I very much doubt that the school would take any action that would materially detract from its APR achievements. So what you're saying is that without the AI Holy Cross and the others would be recruiting D students with horrible SATs? The schools couldn't trust themselves to do what's right for themselves? Oh no....some schools have tutors!!!! Are tutors available to the general student population? Do you have any idea the commitment that student-athletes make? What is the problem with a little extra help? I think it's safe to say EVERY student in America has gone for extra help at one point or another. What a bunch of crap.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jan 20, 2020 14:42:10 GMT -5
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Post by hcpride on Jan 20, 2020 15:17:46 GMT -5
The only rule I don't like following, Lehighbowl, is the AI. I don't understand why it exists. Wasn't the league formed by presidents (Brooks being one of them) that committed to being in charge of their respective schools? How can that be true and they didn't/don't trust each other? The AI exists because without the AI, it is a race to the bottom, and HC is at a disadvantage being liberal arts as well as asserting that is academically rigorous. LOL Before we got into the Patriot League (and adopted the AI) we were on a "race to the bottom"? (At HC we are in the position of knowing the sort of student-athletes we accepted before the AI and knowing the sort of students we accepted after the AI so we can readily dispense with unfounded fears.) I would argue our academic reputation was stronger BEFORE we got involved with the AI but that is another story.
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Post by Tom on Jan 20, 2020 15:26:37 GMT -5
How do some academically rigorous schools, without an AI, address this situation? One approach is to 'tutor' the student through his/her four years of attendance. So what you're saying is that without the AI Holy Cross and the others would be recruiting D students with horrible SATs? The schools couldn't trust themselves to do what's right for themselves? Oh no....some schools have tutors!!!! Are tutors available to the general student population? Do you have any idea the commitment that student-athletes make? What is the problem with a little extra help? I think it's safe to say EVERY student in America has gone for extra help at one point or another. What a bunch of crap. Take note that the word "tutor" was in quotes. Sometimes as Phreek noted a tutor's duties include things like writing papers and taking exams. No one is saying there's anything wrong with giving a kid who's struggling some extra help. Never mind tutors, at HC the profs are really good about it. Where people have an issue is when athletes don't meet the academic profile by an order of magnitude. If the last 10 percent of the kids that get into the school had a high school GPA of about 3.2 and some athletes are admitted with a 3.0, I don't think it's a huge deal. Yes, it's the bottom of the incoming class, but not that much different than the bottom kid who wasn't an athlete. If the athlete's high school GPA was 2.0, it's a different story
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Post by gks on Jan 20, 2020 16:07:52 GMT -5
The AI exists because without the AI, it is a race to the bottom, and HC is at a disadvantage being liberal arts as well as asserting that is academically rigorous. LOL Before we got into the Patriot League (and adopted the AI) we were on a "race to the bottom"? (At HC we are in the position of knowing the sort of student-athletes we accepted before the AI and knowing the sort of students we accepted after the AI so we can readily dispense with unfounded fears.) I would argue our academic reputation was stronger BEFORE we got involved with the AI but that is another story. Agreed! Remember those trouble makers Gordie Lockbaum and Jeff Wiley? Renegades! I don't think either even went to class.
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Post by moose1970 on Jan 20, 2020 16:14:01 GMT -5
Those who saw it may be...but that would not be a large crowd today. let sleeping bulldogs lie!!!
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jan 20, 2020 17:17:59 GMT -5
So what you're saying is that without the AI Holy Cross and the others would be recruiting D students with horrible SATs? The schools couldn't trust themselves to do what's right for themselves? Oh no....some schools have tutors!!!! Are tutors available to the general student population? Do you have any idea the commitment that student-athletes make? What is the problem with a little extra help? I think it's safe to say EVERY student in America has gone for extra help at one point or another. What a bunch of crap. Take note that the word "tutor" was in quotes. Sometimes as Phreek noted a tutor's duties include things like writing papers and taking exams. No one is saying there's anything wrong with giving a kid who's struggling some extra help. Never mind tutors, at HC the profs are really good about it. Where people have an issue is when athletes don't meet the academic profile by an order of magnitude. If the last 10 percent of the kids that get into the school had a high school GPA of about 3.2 and some athletes are admitted with a 3.0, I don't think it's a huge deal. Yes, it's the bottom of the incoming class, but not that much different than the bottom kid who wasn't an athlete. If the athlete's high school GPA was 2.0, it's a different story In the University of Florida's annual report to the NCAA on revenue and expenses (from eight or ten years ago), the Gators provided an extraordinary level of detail, including how much the university had spent mentoring, tutoring, academically advising athletes. I divided the total, which I recall as being about $1.8 million, by the number of athletes (from the Title IX report), and it came to something like $25,000 or so per athlete. Recognizing that many (most?) Gator athletes don't need such a high level of academic support, I calculated that those who did were benefiting from $60-70,000 in annual compensation cost of the mentors, tutors, advisers assigned to that athlete. That's hand-holding. From the 2018-19 common data sets University of Rhode Island ACT English score between 18-23 38.2% ACT Math score between 18-23 36.1% ACT English score between 12-17 5.8% ACT Math score between 12-17 6.4% SAT English score between 400-499 4.9% S AT Math score between 400-499 6.1% Percent graduating in the bottom half of their high school class 17% Percent graduating in the bottom quarter of their high school class 1% Holy Cross ACT English score between 18-23 1.7% ACT Math score between 18-23 5.2% ACT English score between 12-17 0.4% ACT Math score between 12-17 0% SAT English score between 400-499 0% SAT Math score between 400-499 0.3% Percent graduating in the bottom half of their high school class 0% Percent graduating in the bottom quarter of their high school class. 0% A recruited athlete at URI who graduated in the bottom half of his/her high school could probably matriculate at URI without that much difficulty. The URI faculty would probably recognize such, and adjust the course syllabus/rigor. HC won't admit a student in the bottom half of their graduating class.
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Post by gks on Jan 20, 2020 20:50:01 GMT -5
Take note that the word "tutor" was in quotes. Sometimes as Phreek noted a tutor's duties include things like writing papers and taking exams. No one is saying there's anything wrong with giving a kid who's struggling some extra help. Never mind tutors, at HC the profs are really good about it. Where people have an issue is when athletes don't meet the academic profile by an order of magnitude. If the last 10 percent of the kids that get into the school had a high school GPA of about 3.2 and some athletes are admitted with a 3.0, I don't think it's a huge deal. Yes, it's the bottom of the incoming class, but not that much different than the bottom kid who wasn't an athlete. If the athlete's high school GPA was 2.0, it's a different story In the University of Florida's annual report to the NCAA on revenue and expenses (from eight or ten years ago), the Gators provided an extraordinary level of detail, including how much the university had spent mentoring, tutoring, academically advising athletes. I divided the total, which I recall as being about $1.8 million, by the number of athletes (from the Title IX report), and it came to something like $25,000 or so per athlete. Recognizing that many (most?) Gator athletes don't need such a high level of academic support, I calculated that those who did were benefiting from $60-70,000 in annual compensation cost of the mentors, tutors, advisers assigned to that athlete. That's hand-holding. From the 2018-19 common data sets University of Rhode Island ACT English score between 18-23 38.2% ACT Math score between 18-23 36.1% ACT English score between 12-17 5.8% ACT Math score between 12-17 6.4% SAT English score between 400-499 4.9% S AT Math score between 400-499 6.1% Percent graduating in the bottom half of their high school class 17% Percent graduating in the bottom quarter of their high school class 1% Holy Cross ACT English score between 18-23 1.7% ACT Math score between 18-23 5.2% ACT English score between 12-17 0.4% ACT Math score between 12-17 0% SAT English score between 400-499 0% SAT Math score between 400-499 0.3% Percent graduating in the bottom half of their high school class 0% Percent graduating in the bottom quarter of their high school class. 0% A recruited athlete at URI who graduated in the bottom half of his/her high school could probably matriculate at URI without that much difficulty. The URI faculty would probably recognize such, and adjust the course syllabus/rigor. HC won't admit a student in the bottom half of their graduating class. These posts are ridiculous. No kidding a large, public university has different admissions standards than a tiny, northeast private college. All your numbers do is give people popsicle headaches and make old-time alumni puff their chests.
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 20, 2020 21:52:59 GMT -5
The AI exists because without the AI, it is a race to the bottom, and HC is at a disadvantage being liberal arts as well as asserting that is academically rigorous. So, by that analogy, only schools with the AI are avoiding a race to the bottom? Someone tell Stanford, Vanderbilt, Duke etc. to stop this folly right away. How do some academically rigorous schools, without an AI, address this situation? One approach is to 'tutor' the student through his/her four years of attendance. If the issue is to "tutor" these wayward students, it sure seems quiet in that unnamed study hall at an unnamed PL football school. How many of these students were admitted without an AI in their sports? Outside of football...100 percent. They must be wholly unsuited for a rigorous college curriculum without an AI to guide them, correct? Not at all. More than half of the unnamed school's student-athletes maintain a 3.0 average or better. The overall average across over 700 athletes is 3.24. For the 10th-consecutive year, the unnamed school in question had 13 different teams honored by the NCAA for Academic Progress Rate (APR) scores of 1000, the top score possible. That tied for ninth in the nation. And without any AI in admissions. Imagine that! As to the need for "tutors" (or in this case, potentially dozens of "tutors" for over 700 students), it's not prevalent, in large part because an admissions committee, not an arbitrary calculation, determined that these men and women were already capable of the work, and they prove it year after year. Athletes at this unnamed school graduate at the same rate as do students at large....without a calculator to restrict their admission. One of these teams at that unnamed school just won an NCAA championship in men's soccer that would be all but impossible with an AI. Let's call the Academic Index what it is: a sop to a league in Princeton NJ to curry favor with them. It is an artificial restriction to attract and retain student-athletes who can compete in and out of the classroom and maybe, just maybe bring extended success to the athletic teams at those institutions. And somehow, HC survived for 80 years without having to run an AI on Cousy or Foley or Lockbaum. If students can be duly admitted and succeed at Holy Cross, is that not more important than someone at the ETS determine their SAT score is 15 points below the sigma and send them elsewhere to excel? Or is it enough to sleep well knowing that the College admits only what an Ivy League calculator tells them to?
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 21, 2020 0:44:09 GMT -5
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for me to ever understand the AI or many transformative BB players to qualify for admission under it.
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