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Post by hc87 on May 4, 2021 10:35:56 GMT -5
We should develop a "Commander's Cup" type rivalry between Holy Cross, Harvard and Yale. Think they'd be up for it?
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Post by hcpride on May 4, 2021 11:10:17 GMT -5
We should develop a "Commander's Cup" type rivalry between Holy Cross, Harvard and Yale. Think they'd be up for it? It’s exactly what each school needs! Even more (if possible) than a Turnpike Trophy or a Commanders Cup. I’ve always thought Harvard, for example, just needs a rival.🤔 Call it the Augsburg Cup (after the Peace of Augsburg, of course). We join CAA football, also compete for the Augsburg Cup, and play a Pennsy patsy and a local FBS (UMass or BC or UCONN) each year. Fans in the seats and a stronger program. Win-win-win-win.🤗
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Post by CHC8485 on May 4, 2021 13:21:44 GMT -5
With Holy Cross, Georgetown, and Fordham in the same Province (Jesuits USA East), the Provincial's Cup would be quite feasible and apropos, in Football at least. If the 3 schools committed to play annually in other sports it could extend formally to include other sports as well, even though the schools are in separate conferences. And yes I know that's a HUGE "IF" but as far as some of the proposals put forth in this thread it would not be the proposal voted "least likely to actually occur!
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on May 4, 2021 13:24:57 GMT -5
We should develop a "Commander's Cup" type rivalry between Holy Cross, Harvard and Yale. Think they'd be up for it? They'd have zero interest as it would do nothing for brand development at either Yale or Harvard
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Post by hc87 on May 4, 2021 13:26:23 GMT -5
Like Don Rickles, I kid because I love....
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Post by longsuffering on May 4, 2021 17:13:36 GMT -5
With Holy Cross, Georgetown, and Fordham in the same Province (Jesuits USA East), the Provincial's Cup would be quite feasible and apropos, in Football at least. If the 3 schools committed to play annually in other sports it could extend formally to include other sports as well, even though the schools are in separate conferences. And yes I know that's a HUGE "IF" but as far as some of the proposals put forth in this thread it would not be the proposal voted "least likely to actually occur! That vote is stalled with a 37 proposal tie at the top.😋
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Post by longsuffering on May 4, 2021 17:15:30 GMT -5
We should develop a "Commander's Cup" type rivalry between Holy Cross, Harvard and Yale. Think they'd be up for it? It’s exactly what each school needs! Even more (if possible) than a Turnpike Trophy or a Commanders Cup. I’ve always thought Harvard, for example, just needs a rival.🤔 Call it the Augsburg Cup (after the Peace of Augsburg, of course). We join CAA football, also compete for the Augsburg Cup, and play a Pennsy patsy and a local FBS (UMass or BC or UCONN) each year. Fans in the seats and a stronger program. Win-win-win-win.🤗 Didn't Harvard used to have some sort of mild rivalry with a college in Connecticut?
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Post by nycrusader2010 on May 4, 2021 21:20:42 GMT -5
While not realistic or desired by a majority on the board- what would it require us to do to have a 5 year plan to be in the FBS as a legitimate team-not like UMASS or UCONN, but like Army/Navy? Zero shot. Like a complete non-starter.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on May 4, 2021 21:22:56 GMT -5
We coulda (and shoulda) been in the Big East....we lost a lot of past and future notoriety/brand etc when we didn't do so. Going FBS in football really isn't feasible for a host of reasons. Even if you turned back the clock to 1979 and HC took the red pill and joined the Big East, we still never would've ever been I-A/FBS in football.
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Post by hc87 on May 4, 2021 21:30:18 GMT -5
We coulda (and shoulda) been in the Big East....we lost a lot of past and future notoriety/brand etc when we didn't do so. Going FBS in football really isn't feasible for a host of reasons. Even if you turned back the clock to 1979 and HC took the red pill and joined the Big East, we still never would've ever been I-A/FBS in football. Oh, I've always agreed with this....we were really playing de facto 1-AA football since Eddie Anderson stepped down in the early 1960s. Playing mostly Ivies and Yankee Conf. schools with a few 1-A schools mixed in yearly along with BC. My Big East aspirations were always only hoop related ala Nova and GTown. Holy Cross football at the the highest level really became untenable once we went co-ed....along with a laundry-list of other reasons.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on May 4, 2021 21:35:29 GMT -5
Even if you turned back the clock to 1979 and HC took the red pill and joined the Big East, we still never would've ever been I-A/FBS in football. Oh, I've always agreed with this....we were really playing de facto 1-AA football since Eddie Anderson stepped down in the early 1960s. Playing mostly Ivies and Yankee Conf. schools with a few 1-A schools mixed in yearly along with BC. My Big East aspirations were always only hoop related ala Nova and GTown. And you're spot on for the most pahhhtt. HC swung and missed at the Big East basketball opportunity. Is what it is. But Big East football never came to be until 1991 -- 8 years after HC was forced to reclassify to I-AA along with the likes of the Ivies, W&M, Richmond, VMI and Colgate.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on May 4, 2021 21:38:24 GMT -5
Nebraska ain't what it used to be but really? What is the point besides the almighty dollar. The almighty dollar is very often the point They get paid $1 million to go out and play a team in the same region and thats maybe 10-14 points better than the South Dakota State team we just played. In a classic college football venue in front of 90,000 people. SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD DEAL TO ME. GREAT FOR FORDHAM AND THE PL.
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Post by hc87 on May 4, 2021 21:38:51 GMT -5
The PL was football only for the first 5 or so years....if we had gone BE in hoop, we could have found a way (like Villanova or GTown) to do both at those levels imo.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on May 4, 2021 21:46:46 GMT -5
The PL was football only for the first 5 or so years....if we had gone BE in hoop, we could have found a way (like Villanova or GTown) to do both at those levels imo. 100% And if not PL, we would've gone the Yankee => A-10 => CAA route in football a ala UMASS, UNH, URI
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Post by longsuffering on May 4, 2021 21:54:43 GMT -5
The PL was football only for the first 5 or so years....if we had gone BE in hoop, we could have found a way (like Villanova or GTown) to do both at those levels imo. True.
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Post by DFW HOYA on May 4, 2021 22:14:07 GMT -5
Even if you turned back the clock to 1979 and HC took the red pill and joined the Big East, we still never would've ever been I-A/FBS in football. Were Holy Cross to have maintained a 15,000 attendance average, I-A would have been doable. Sellouts every other year with BC, Syracuse, maybe Pitt, and certainly Miami would have topped 15,000 on average. Rev. Brooks did not see the future of what the Big East TV package would have meant to funding football and other sports. Or then again, maybe he did see it coming and wanted to firmly align the college closer to an Ivy model than to be associated with BC, Syracuse, and Pitt, and by extension, Georgetown, St. John's and Villanova.
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Post by longsuffering on May 4, 2021 22:25:22 GMT -5
Even if you turned back the clock to 1979 and HC took the red pill and joined the Big East, we still never would've ever been I-A/FBS in football. Were Holy Cross to have maintained a 15,000 attendance average, I-A would have been in range, but Rev. Brooks did not see the future of what the Big East TV package would have meant to funding football and other sports. Or then again, maybe he did see it coming and wanted to firmly align the school closer to the Ivy/NESCAC model than to be associated with BC, Syracuse, and Pitt. Two roads diverged in a wood. Both had their advantages but one had much less financial risk at the time. I have a figure stuck in my mind of the Holy Cross endowment being around 2.5 million in the early seventies, so perhaps Fr. Brooks felt the need to be fiscally cautious as much as having a philosophical preference for the IVY/NESCAC model.
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Post by Crucis#1 on May 4, 2021 22:48:31 GMT -5
Big East membership has not provided a path to high financial grade for a number of private schools according to Forbes. Providence College with a C- rating is the prime example that whatever bonanza there appears to be with the TV contract, has not been enough to place them in a sound footing. The same is true for Seton Hall with a C rating. HC has a A+ rating with Forbes.
Maybe the Big East with their TV package has provided enough to have kept PC and Seton Hall from going under.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on May 5, 2021 5:48:13 GMT -5
Even if you turned back the clock to 1979 and HC took the red pill and joined the Big East, we still never would've ever been I-A/FBS in football. Were Holy Cross to have maintained a 15,000 attendance average, I-A would have been doable. Sellouts every other year with BC, Syracuse, maybe Pitt, and certainly Miami would have topped 15,000 on average. Rev. Brooks did not see the future of what the Big East TV package would have meant to funding football and other sports. Or then again, maybe he did see it coming and wanted to firmly align the college closer to an Ivy model than to be associated with BC, Syracuse, and Pitt, and by extension, Georgetown, St. John's and Villanova. The issue is that Big East FOOTBALL didn't come to fruition until 1991 -- 12 years later. By 1983, Holy Cross and other similar Eastern football schools had already been relegated to I-AA. We were still playing BC home-and-home through 1986. I guess its possible, had we not announced scholarship reductions and joined the Patriot League in football, and given the dominance of the Duffner years, that we would have been considered for football membership as an established, founding, all-sports Big East member. Holy Cross would've been the smallest I-A school in the country though. Wouldn't have made sense in the long run, just like Villanova football to the Big East didn't make any sense. Remember in the late 2000's they were briefly thinking of moving up and using the Philadelphia Union soccer stadium for home games?
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Post by thecrossisback on May 5, 2021 6:53:41 GMT -5
Found this on the Nebraska message board.
Per OWH, Fordham gets $500, 000. SE La gets $600,000 if game isn't rescheduled.
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Post by timholycross on May 5, 2021 7:39:00 GMT -5
Perhaps it was simplistic to think this way, but it seemed to me that when they rebuilt Fitton another row or two coupled with keeping the wooden high school bleachers in the end zone would have made the place 30K and thereby qualified HC for the next level. I'm pretty sure that was one of the criteria at the time because HYP and Penn all qualified for FBS if they wanted to be there.
However, I'm happy they didn't do that type of charade, especially since it was pretty clear that playing BC at the end of every season was a mistake that had to be corrected. Liked what the program was seemingly going to be (no doubt would have ended up in the CAA for football) before it was clear that it was being taken in another direction.
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Post by trimster on May 5, 2021 8:01:53 GMT -5
We coulda (and shoulda) been in the Big East....we lost a lot of past and future notoriety/brand etc when we didn't do so. Going FBS in football really isn't feasible for a host of reasons. Even if you turned back the clock to 1979 and HC took the red pill and joined the Big East, we still never would've ever been I-A/FBS in football. And they’re off with Big East Revisited in the lead at the quarter turn......
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Post by rickii on May 5, 2021 8:17:30 GMT -5
We should develop a "Commander's Cup" type rivalry between Holy Cross, Harvard and Yale. Think they'd be up for it? They'd have zero interest as it would do nothing for brand development at either Yale or Harvard Eh ? Since when are Haaaved and Yale even remotely concerned with brand development ?
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Post by trimster on May 5, 2021 8:20:21 GMT -5
They'd have zero interest as it would do nothing for brand development at either Yale or Harvard Eh ? Since when are Haaaved and Yale even remotely concerned with brand development ? At their Palo Alto recruiting office?
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Post by DFW HOYA on May 5, 2021 10:44:46 GMT -5
By 1983, Holy Cross and other similar Eastern football schools had already been relegated to I-AA. We were still playing BC home-and-home through 1986. I guess its possible, had we not announced scholarship reductions and joined the Patriot League in football, and given the dominance of the Duffner years, that we would have been considered for football membership as an established, founding, all-sports Big East member. Holy Cross would've been the smallest I-A school in the country though. Wouldn't have made sense in the long run, just like Villanova football to the Big East didn't make any sense. Remember in the late 2000's they were briefly thinking of moving up and using the Philadelphia Union soccer stadium for home games? Three points: 1. HC made no visible efforts to avoid relegation. By contrast, Louisville came very, very close to being relegated and went all-in on community ticketing to get over the minimum. Where is that program today if it had been left behind? 2. Holy Cross is the same size as the undergraduate population at Tulsa (3,174). They average about 18,000 per game in the far flung AAC with a 30,000 stadium not much younger than Fitton (built in 1930). 3. Villlanova was within one week of a trustee vote in 2011 to go to I-A and move home games to PPL Park in Chester. That vote was tabled when Pitt announced that week it was leaving for the ACC.
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