Univ of Albany downs BC

What's a difense?

I wrote about the topic of zone v M2M during the Siena game (see below) but it got overlooked. Would love to hear from some folks who have watched this team closely over the years and get their feedback. I’ve been surprised that we haven’t even fooled around with a little bit of zone D during the Nelson tenure.


Siena Game Day
Honest question for posters that have watched this team closely over the last 3 years.

Have we played zone defense at all during the Nelson tenure?

I’m not here to start a debate or conversation about the benefits/drawbacks of one D over another. I know Nelson is a M2M guy fundamentally, and that’s fine.

I’m just curious if we have ever tried to mix it up at all during his tenure. Again, honest question and not trying to push an agenda.

I haven’t watched all of the games during Nelson’s tenure, but I’ve watched at least 80% of them (yes, there is something wrong with me and I need to get out more). I’ve personally have never seen them switch out of their core D.

Great coaches have advocated the use of constantly changing defenses, matchup zones, etc. to keep your opponent off guard and make it hard for them to scout. Imagine the defensive genius in the days before the shot clock. Go watch Rollie’s teams in the early to mid 80s.

They also tried it for a possession in the BC game; it was just as "successful".

The thing I hate about this coaching staff's approach is that there's nothing about what we're doing that makes us tough to prepare for. That was a hallmark of the Willard era, that you had to prep for the matchup zone. And even if you did prep, it wasn't going to be fun to play against.

Ironically, the only time we've seen anything like that in the ensuing decade-plus is the only other time we've had success over that timespan: when Carmody rolled out the 1-3-1 in March 2016. (Carmody's Princeton Offense might have qualified as making us "tough to prepare for", but I feel like we never fully realized that, and/or the accompanying defense was so bad it didn't matter.)

I don't understand why our last four coaches have been largely unable to figure this out: you're not going to win this league simply by out-recruiting/out-talenting the rest of the league. The schools/selling points/philosophies have too much in common... and now everyone has a full complement of scholarships. And even if you do win the recruiting wars, you're not winning them by such a margin that you can just take your team and win games when you play "up a level", be that in OOC or post-season play.

What's distinctive about the current team, either offensively or defensively? Nothing. There's nothing you need to see on film to figure out how to beat us. Heck, if I were an opposing coach, I wouldn't want to show HC film to my team, lest they become overconfident. ("Wow, they're short AND they can't shoot straight? This is gonna be fun, I'm going for 30 tonight!")

I don't think there's any hope for this program until we get a coach who wants to put their stamp on it. I see no evidence that Nelson even owns a stamp, other than his "Attack and Serve" email signature.

I don't necessarily disagree with your larger point, but would you be able to identify the "hallmark" of any of the teams that won the last 10 PLC's?
2021 - Colgate (Langel) 
2020 - BU (Jones)
2019 - Colgate (Langel)
2018 - Bucknell (Davis)
2017 - Bucknell (Davis)
2016 - Holy Cross (Carmody)
2015 - Lafayette (O'Hanlon)
2014 - American (Brennan)
2013 - Bucknell (Paulsen)
2012 - Lehigh (Reed)

Did any of these teams do anything that you would want HC to try and "emulate" -- a la how the RW and Flannery teams both played great, tough defense?

IMHO, the vast majority of these titles were won by the most talented teams in the league, and there isn't a coach on that list who would come close to having the type of impact that the top tier of coaches had in the pL over the past 25 years (Willard, Flannery, Jeff Jones).

Holy Cross needs to play better and coach better, and we also need to get more experienced (both players and coach). The only way that's going to happen is with time.

I suggest reviewing the early tenures of Matt Langel at Colgate and Wes Miller at UNC Greensboro (now Cincinnati). If Crossports posters were the ADs at these schools, both those guys would have been fired before they turned each program around.

Albany improved to 3-9 with that victory BTW....really rolling in the wins this season. 

So, keep waiting and things are certain to improve in time?

You have referenced Langel at Colgate a number of times---how the team was sub.500 each of his first 5 years at Colgate. Of course, there's a difference between going 8-22, 11-21, and 13-18 and the W-L records we have been posting. How did Langel do with the X's and O's those early Colgate years? Did he attempt to install some kind of offense and ask his team to play defense or did he just "roll the ball out there"? Is Brett Nelson doing the things early in his tenure at HC that Langel did at Colgate and Miller did at Greensboro?

II may have asked this before, but if you were AD would you have whacked Sean Kearney or would you have had the same patience with him that you advocate we have with BN?

I'm actually not sure you want to go down that path. 

On this date in Langel's third year, Colgate was 5-4 with narrow losses to Wake Forest and Georgetown. While they finished the season 13-18 (6-12), it was their best season since 2008 when Emmett Davis took Colgate to the PLC. Langel's team ranked fifth in the nation in effective FG% (56.4%). He also had successfully brought in a number of impactful transfers (Murphy Burnatowski, Ethan Jacobs, and Austin Tillotson). Also, we talk a lot about being able to identify a plan / system that Nelson has beyond "attack and serve" (what's the mean, by the way?), and it was plainly obvious what the identity of Langel's teams would be: shoot the piss out of the ball. 

At the end of year three, Langel's record at Colgate was 32-61 (13-33). Not good, but the records were improving each season. Nelson might not reach ten Division 1 wins after his third season. 

After three seasons in Greensboro, Miller was 36-59. I don't know enough about the Greensboro program to comment on things beyond record, but what I do know is that his winning percentage after three seasons there will be a lot better than Nelson's. 

BBC,
When you watch our team, what gives you any optimism about Nelson’s coaching ?

I certainly understand that concept but it presumes that another coach can't be more effective with the current crop of players until he (she?) gets their own players. I don't subscribe to that theory. 

I believe (blind faith?), the right coach, who doesn't have to be a Rick Pitino, can teach and work with these athletic players to accomplish successes that apparently are beyond Brett. 

My read on this board is that there is almost universal agreement that Brett should have the rest of this season to turn things around at least to the level that there is evidence that the team is putting it all together. Failing that, there should be a parting of the ways. I'm sure with Brett's background and experience that he would get a job as an assistant at a higher level where he'd probably make close to what he's making at Holy Cross. 
 

It’s a bit unfair to compare BN’s first two years with other coaches. He had a mass exodus of players in year one, going into year two. Were some of those players “run off” - we really don’t know. Certainly Green & Grandy we’re leaving before he got here. Year two was unprecedented with COVID, and a schedule of their playing mainly the league’s two top teams.
That said, year three has been very disappointing. Other than a few decent halves of basketball, none of which were consecutive, the team has looked unprepared and outmatched. I still can’t figure out the offense, and wish he could master some zone defense, as they certainly haven’t mastered MTM.
Yes, the team is young and I believe BN has recruited pretty well. I once played for a legendary and now an infamous head coach who used to say when things were not going great: “keep playing hard, good things will start to happen!” I’ve been to most of the games, and watched the others. I think the kids are still playing hard, and if that stops, maybe it will be time for a change. Until then, let’s see what happens this year.