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Post by mm67 on Feb 28, 2022 9:53:47 GMT -5
It has been obvious from the very beginning that USNWR ratings are at best specious. I could cite instances provided to me by university administrators & guidance counselors of USNWR ratings flaws and distortions. ( Actually my memory is shot. I have "Can't Remember Nuthin' (CRN) "disease." TBT I would have difficulty citing anything. But the aforementioned discussions did occur.) USNWR was developed to save a dying publication not to add value to tertiary education. Nonetheless, due to the commonality of its platform, the ratings have gained an outsized influence on students and colleges. It is more pop culture than academia. Prospective students & their families most especially those with limited knowledge of the college landscape rely on these public ratings. It is a game and little more. Colleges & universities regularly game the ratings. . Understandably, HC will be moving to improve its rankings. Hopefully, HC will also be moving to improve the educational experience holistically for all its students.
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Post by sader1970 on Feb 28, 2022 10:07:14 GMT -5
All you've said is true or likely true.
However, like it or not, as you've also said, people take these ratings very seriously when looking for what college their kids should go to. I don't have the time/energy/smarts to do it but I'd bet that the higher the USN&WR ranking, the higher the number of applicants.
The example already laid out is Northeastern.
I'm also a believer that winning begets winning and there is a real thing called the self-fulfilling prophecy. Higher ratings = more and better applicants. Better applicants = better students. Better students = better quality education and attracts better faculty.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Feb 28, 2022 10:24:22 GMT -5
Georgetown's EA for the class of 2026. N=8,852 applicants.
Holy Cross has now joined Questbridge. And hired an admissions counselor specifically assigned for international students. HC applicants for the class of 2025 numbered 6,498. Bucknell's were 11,263.
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Post by mm67 on Feb 28, 2022 10:43:44 GMT -5
"A Change is Gonna Come" -- Sam Cooke.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 28, 2022 12:29:26 GMT -5
Georgetown's EA for the class of 2026. N=8,852 applicants. Holy Cross has now joined Questbridge. And hired an admissions counselor specifically assigned for international students. HC applicants for the class of 2025 numbered 6,498. Bucknell's were 11,263. Egads. Code blue.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Feb 28, 2022 12:53:47 GMT -5
The flags were raised over 25 years ago, but there were several who refused to react to the shift in demographics trends. There was a high degree of hubris behind the doors on Mahogany Row regarding changes that were needed.
They were arrogant and did not listen when many tried to help them.
PVR and the BOT have much on their plate to resolve over the next five years.
Many are watching and willing to provide resources to resolve.
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Post by football44 on Feb 28, 2022 13:37:19 GMT -5
Crucis is correct but PVR and Cornell LeSane have the ship going in the right direction. You call it hubris I call it arrogance.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Feb 28, 2022 13:47:02 GMT -5
They made my hair hurt with their refusal to see clear trends in demographics and pedagogical models and their refusal to take the necessary steps for remediation.
Fortunately, PVR is not being encumbered with the myopia of the past.
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Post by mm67 on Feb 28, 2022 14:07:39 GMT -5
It would be most interesting to read the necessary steps for remediation as some have speculated.
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Post by football44 on Feb 28, 2022 14:43:48 GMT -5
It would be most interesting to read the necessary steps for remediation as some have speculated. mm67 you can start by researching and reading up on Questbridge. You don't get accepted into that "Club" without being thoroughly vetted. Got that from a VERY reliable source.
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 28, 2022 14:56:49 GMT -5
Interesting discussion. A few thoughts:
1. Colgate and Georgetown provide trend analysis, but Holy Cross doesn't need to follow them as a rule. HC is distinct and that's a selling point all its own. Many Jesuit schools today lack an academic distinction or a core competency that leads them to really struggle in the marketplace. What are the particular strengths of a Detroit Mercy or a St. Joe's these days?
2. The two headwinds for LAC's are demographics and perception. The raw number of graduates in the Northeast is in steady decline and there are fewer applicants from Florida or Arizona or Texas with the familiarity to a LAC education than their cousin might have in Connecticut or the 128 corridor does. A liberal arts education is skewing very female, with 62-65% of degrees nationally being awarded to women, and close to 80% in subjects such as psychology and sociology. The perception that a liberal arts degree isn't marketable pushes more men away in favor of business or engineering. Schools that chase after Chinese nationals or US students with no interest in a program is a short-term fix, either, so the positioning of HC in the LAC ecosystem comes with opportunities and with threats to enrollment.
3. Since this is a football board, do not underestimate the ability of sports as a living, walking billboard for the college. Colgate's visit to Stanford to open the season is not just a chance to pick up a check, one that they probably could have picked up at Buffalo or Syracuse with far less expense. It's absolutely an opportunity to introduce and promote that school to applicants, parents, and benefactors across Silicon Valley, and if Colgate is smart, which we know it is, their president and admissions director will be all over the Bay Area that weekend, especially to families that want a great education but aren't a candidate amidst Stanford's 5.2% admit rate.
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Post by mm67 on Feb 28, 2022 15:17:25 GMT -5
It would be most interesting to read the necessary steps for remediation as some have speculated. mm67 you can start by researching and reading up on Questbridge. You don't get accepted into that "Club" without being thoroughly vetted. Got that from a VERY reliable source. Football 44 Thank you. Good point. Questbridge looks great. I am quite familiar with a program for high performing inner city youth., Gateway.. The program was extremely intensive and involved Saturday classes, summer school residential camp and parent buy in.These students were terrific!The program provided buses to take these students to visit various campuses in New England and elsewhere. HC was not on the list. Why not? There are other programs, too. Almost all Gateway students enrolled in college and many in high level colleges the Ivies & others and graduated. Give youngsters the opportunity and they will succeed. Many years ago I alerted a former HC president about the need for diversity and the large number of students who would do great at HC. We had an on-going discussion. He famously made some efforts with success A truly diverse student body would add immeasurably to the educational experience for all students. I have had a blended family for close to 50 years and my feelings are personally invested in this issue. I could go on about many other things. More needs to be done. Peace mm
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