|
|
Post by hcpride on Nov 9, 2017 16:01:22 GMT -5
See the thread about National Letters of Intent for the purpose of identifying HC sports with scholarships. There were some for women's volleyball, soccer, track, lax, and men's soccer so far. The amusing thing about these announcements is that nobody ever says they received a quarter scholarship. They all let everyone believe they got a "full ride" or a "full boat." I am convinced that HC should have a little bit of money to offer in every sport. I think some would take it and come just so they could go to the LOI ceremony at their school. Good points I think sometimes these signing event /announcements are a bit of a PR show. NLI comes with athletic aid ... those who know realize it can be any amount at all but some don't realize this...and you'll also see high school 'signing ceremonies' for a kid who's planning on playing a college sport with no athletic aid at all (for example a kid on the thread who is heading to Yale) . |
|
|
|
Post by hchoops on Nov 9, 2017 16:14:34 GMT -5
“Yale-...no athletic aid at all.”
Am I misunderstanding something ?
|
|
|
|
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 9, 2017 16:34:44 GMT -5
“Yale-...no athletic aid at all.” Am I misunderstanding something ? Don't the Ivy League schools state that they give no athletic aid at all, i.e. that all aid is based on family financials?? Isn't that how Amaker can sign 5 players every year if he so desires, i.e. none are getting athletic aid so they don't count against a scholarship limit?? |
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on Nov 9, 2017 16:42:34 GMT -5
“Yale-...no athletic aid at all.” Am I misunderstanding something ? Is this news to you? No academic aid and no athletic aid at an Ivy. |
|
|
|
Post by bison137 on Nov 9, 2017 20:41:05 GMT -5
“Yale-...no athletic aid at all.” Am I misunderstanding something ? Yes, Yale aid is all based on parental income. Athletes don't get more money than non-athletes if family income etc is the same. As pointed out above, that is why Ivy's can bring in 5 or 6 recruited players a year in hoops. That is also why a player can quit a team the first week after he/she enters the school and still receive the same aid for four years. The only Ivy issue is that any school can match an aid offer from another Ivy. So if Harvard or Yale, with their extremely generous aid formula, offers a player a certain amount of financial aid, then Cornell or Dartmouth could match that offer - even if it is more than their formula would generate. Not sure how often that happens, but it can. There are many All-League athletes in the Ivy League who didn't receive any financial aid at all during their four years. That includes some very good football and basketball players. |
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on Nov 10, 2017 5:58:13 GMT -5
Bill Bradley, arguably the top collegiate basketball player of his day, paid full tuition at Prnceton (and turned down 75 full athletic scholarships). His family did not qualify for financial aid and, again, no athletic aid at an Ivy. HYP are so rich they offer financial (never academic or athletic) aid to accepted students at a level that would shock those who are not current and familiar with their practice. As one example, a non athlete (or athlete for that matter) offered 0 financial aid at HC , BU, Fordham, etc might be offered 45k (or more) financial aid at Harvard. With no loans in that package bison137 It is highly unlikely (essentially impossible) for a recruited HYP athlete to be accepted 'restricted early action', receive their financial aid package, then apply as a non-recruit to regular decision at another Ivy, gain admission, receive financial aid package, and then appeal financial aid for a matching sum. The 'likely letter' received by Ivy recruits does not include a financial aid package - if it did this sort of thing would be a real factor for recruited Ivy athletes. It is true that non-athletes can and do receive financial aid matches within the Ivy League. Not sure hchoops was serious. |
|
|
|
Post by timholycross on Nov 11, 2017 9:23:37 GMT -5
Wonder if this endowment tax will have an effect on the aid formula at the deep pockets schools
|
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Nov 11, 2017 11:22:44 GMT -5
Wonder if this endowment tax will have an effect on the aid formula at the deep pockets schools When you are speaking about multi-billion dollar endowments (yes, with a "B") I am not sure that will be an issue. |
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on Nov 11, 2017 11:29:50 GMT -5
Wonder if this endowment tax will have an effect on the aid formula at the deep pockets schools No, but maybe HC (and others like it) would re-look 'need blind' and 'meeting 100 percent of demonstrated need', or raise tuition, or cut schollies. |
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 13, 2017 8:25:27 GMT -5
Yes, none. In the PL both Lehigh and Lafayette have a couple. Bucknell,and HC have none. A lot of good info here -- thanks all. 137 (or anyone else) -- where do you get the info about number of schollies schools give in various sports? Is there a database or do you get it from reviewing schools' financial docs? You can get a rough approximation by looking at expenses by individual sport in the Title IX reports on the Department of Education website. What one needs to do is compare total expenses for a sport across a like group of colleges; e.g., all PL schools playing field hockey. If there are significant differences in the expense totals, the most likely reason for most of the differences is financial aid. Do not compare public institutions with private institutions for this purpose. For a baseline, compare Ivy League schools spending for a sport with PL schools. The Ivies always include zero financial aid, so much of the difference between a PL school and the Ivy baseline would be financial aid, either true scollie or need-based. This is the Title IX website. ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/For those very few schools that publicly publish their NCAA financial report, you can get a much clearer indication of the number of scollies by sport. See Penn State's report, starting on pdf page 29. grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/psu/genrel/auto_pdf/2016-17/misc_non_event/FY-2016-NCAA-Financial-Report.pdf^^^^ In looking at PSU, one can see how many partial scollies are awarded. A lot! PSU football rostered 128 players receiving financial aid, and was still under the 85 full scollie equivalency cap. That is one reason why public schools, even with a partial scollie, are financially so attractive to an athlete's parents. The total cost of attendance at PSU may be half that of Bucknell. A half scollie at PSU would mean a parent spends much less for their child to attend PSU than for the same child receiving a half scollie to Bucknell. |
|
|
|
Post by bison137 on Nov 13, 2017 10:43:47 GMT -5
A lot of good info here -- thanks all. 137 (or anyone else) -- where do you get the info about number of schollies schools give in various sports? Is there a database or do you get it from reviewing schools' financial docs? See Penn State's report, starting on pdf page 29. grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/psu/genrel/auto_pdf/2016-17/misc_non_event/FY-2016-NCAA-Financial-Report.pdf^^^^ In looking at PSU, one can see how many partial scollies are awarded. A lot! PSU football rostered 128 players receiving financial aid, and was still under the 85 full scollie equivalency cap. That is one reason why public schools, even with a partial scollie, are financially so attractive to an athlete's parents. The total cost of attendance at PSU may be half that of Bucknell. A half scollie at PSU would mean a parent spends much less for their child to attend PSU than for the same child receiving a half scollie to Bucknell. FBS schools, such as Penn State, cannot give out partial scholarships in football. So in PSU's case, there can be no more than 85 athletes on scholarships (all full ones). In fact, due to the sanctions that were placed on PSU, they actually have less than 85 scholarships. I can't tell you how PSU gets the number of athletes receiving aid up to 128 since even need-based or academic scholarships given to "recruited" athletes counts against the 85-person scholarship limit. Some of the difference could be non-recruited players, i.e. true walk-ons, who receive need-based aid - but that kind of aid technically is NOT athletic aid. PSU btw "only" had 119 players on their roster last year, with a number being true walk-ons. |
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 13, 2017 12:29:24 GMT -5
See Penn State's report, starting on pdf page 29. grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/psu/genrel/auto_pdf/2016-17/misc_non_event/FY-2016-NCAA-Financial-Report.pdf^^^^ In looking at PSU, one can see how many partial scollies are awarded. A lot! PSU football rostered 128 players receiving financial aid, and was still under the 85 full scollie equivalency cap. That is one reason why public schools, even with a partial scollie, are financially so attractive to an athlete's parents. The total cost of attendance at PSU may be half that of Bucknell. A half scollie at PSU would mean a parent spends much less for their child to attend PSU than for the same child receiving a half scollie to Bucknell. FBS schools, such as Penn State, cannot give out partial scholarships in football. So in PSU's case, there can be no more than 85 athletes on scholarships (all full ones). In fact, due to the sanctions that were placed on PSU, they actually have less than 85 scholarships. I can't tell you how PSU gets the number of athletes receiving aid up to 128 since even need-based or academic scholarships given to "recruited" athletes counts against the 85-person scholarship limit. Some of the difference could be non-recruited players, i.e. true walk-ons, who receive need-based aid - but that kind of aid technically is NOT athletic aid. PSU btw "only" had 119 players on their roster last year, with a number being true walk-ons. Finding these NCAA reports is like finding needles in a haystack. University of Utah Football 83 equivalencies, 93 total getting financial aid www.utahutes.com/documents/2017/4/20//FY16_NCAA_Revenue_and_Expense_Report.pdf?id=7956University of Akron (FBS) Football 61 equivalencies, 85 total. und.edu/finance-operations/_files/docs/ncaa-2016-financial-report.pdf_____________________________ Not the NCAA report per se, but contain interesting summary information. www.jmu.edu/financeoffice/fin-statements/JMUncaa2015.pdf^^^^ $35 million of the JMU athletics budget comes from student fees. Helps to have a big enrollment. www.cga.ct.gov/apa/reports/Central%20Connecticut%20State%20University-NCAA_20171005_FY2016.pdf^^^^ CCSU: Note the painfully small amount of revenue from ticket sales |
|
|
|
Post by actualfactual on Dec 9, 2017 21:37:42 GMT -5
As generous as the HC alumni base is, I am surprised you all don't exert more pressure on the school concerning athletic scholarships. If someone donated cash for baseball scholarships only, the pushback would be "Title IX." If you then say, "okay, I'm not writing the check." you may be surprised at how quickly raising cash for an offsetting women's track scholarship would become a development office priority. Although the college is 50/50 coed today, the alumni base is not. Are you GUYS being too nice???
|
|
|
|
Post by lou on Dec 10, 2017 8:58:21 GMT -5
It seems HC made that call when it decided on 60 football schollies, don't blame the women
|
|
|
|
Post by actualfactual on Dec 10, 2017 9:28:27 GMT -5
Women are not at fault here and Title IX is what it is. I was commenting on what I see as lack of resolve by male alums. If somebody said, "I'll give my usual hundred bucks this year but it would be a hundred thousand if you start a baseball scholarship fund," it would be interesting to see HC make that call! All I'm saying.
|
|
|
|
Post by hcgrad94 on Dec 10, 2017 9:53:41 GMT -5
If someone said I will give you 2 million to endow one baseball scholarship and one scholarship for a women's athlete that might work.
|
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 10, 2017 10:22:04 GMT -5
As generous as the HC alumni base is, I am surprised you all don't exert more pressure on the school concerning athletic scholarships. If someone donated cash for baseball scholarships only, the pushback would be "Title IX." If you then say, "okay, I'm not writing the check." you may be surprised at how quickly raising cash for an offsetting women's track scholarship would become a development office priority. Although the college is 50/50 coed today, the alumni base is not. Are you GUYS being too nice??? If someone endowed baseball scollies (as is done at Duke for the hoops players, and even the managers), HC would have baseball scollies. (Would need an endowment gift of $1.3 million or so for one full scollie ) Colgate gives out more athletically-related financial aid than does the University of Texas at Austin. HC gives out a bit less than UT, and about $2 million less than Colgate. The difference between HC and Colgate is almost entirely in women's sports. The scollies for HC women's ice hockey will help close the gap. And I recognize that cost of attendance at U of Texas is significantly less that at Colgate. |
|
|
|
Post by hcgrad94 on Dec 10, 2017 10:50:51 GMT -5
Need to endow women's equivalency at same time.
|
|
|
|
Post by bison137 on Dec 10, 2017 16:49:32 GMT -5
As generous as the HC alumni base is, I am surprised you all don't exert more pressure on the school concerning athletic scholarships. If someone donated cash for baseball scholarships only, the pushback would be "Title IX." If you then say, "okay, I'm not writing the check." you may be surprised at how quickly raising cash for an offsetting women's track scholarship would become a development office priority. Although the college is 50/50 coed today, the alumni base is not. Are you GUYS being too nice??? If someone endowed baseball scollies (as is done at Duke for the hoops players, and even the managers), HC would have baseball scollies. (Would need an endowment gift of $1.3 million or so for one full scollie ) Curios why you are sure about that. At Bucknell and a number of peer schools, that is definitely not the case. If someone offered to donate $2 million for a male and female athletic scholarship, they would be told that general need-based financial aid is THE priority and your donation for that purpose would be more than welcome. Bucknell alums have wanted to establish lax scholarships for years and gave been turned down. No Title IX issues. Thus Bucknell still does not have scholarships in men's soccer, lax, track, baseball, etc. that has also been the case at some similar schools for certain sports. |
|
|
|
Post by hcgrad94 on Dec 10, 2017 17:13:42 GMT -5
I would strongly suspect that to endow one men's lacrosse scholarship at Bucknell you would also need to endow 1 womens scholarship at the same time.
|
|
|
|
Post by bison137 on Dec 10, 2017 17:34:33 GMT -5
I would strongly suspect that to endow one men's lacrosse scholarship at Bucknell you would also need to endow 1 womens scholarship at the same time. No, that's not the issue. For years the Administration has not allowed most athletic scholarships to be endowed. It has nothing to do with Title IX. If I offered them $10 million tomorrow to endow 4 men's lax scholarships and 4 women's, it would be turned down. Only contributions to endow general need-based aid, or certain merit scholarships are allowed. That is why Bucknell has no athletic scholarships for mens lax, soccer, track, or baseball etc. it is not due to Title IX and us not due to having no prospective donors. |
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 10, 2017 19:55:05 GMT -5
bison. I was basing my example on Duke, where there are 13 hoop scholarships funded through a restricted endowment, as well as, IIRC, the team managers. From Google, I read that Duke has endowed 107 more scholarships. www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=211661442And the 107 appear to be in addition to the hoops scollies. today.duke.edu/2003/10/20031027.htmlThis article is from 2003, soon after the Legacy Fund was created, when coach K endowed a scholarship in honor of his brother, a retired captain on the Chicago Fire Dept. The Legacy Fund stood at $37 million ten years ago. |
|
|
|
Post by hc6774 on Dec 11, 2017 8:38:49 GMT -5
do any PL schools endow a coaching position? I believe that this is not uncommon in IL.
|
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 11, 2017 12:09:28 GMT -5
do any PL schools endow a coaching position? I believe that this is not uncommon in IL. Dan Hunt at Colgate, Fred '50 and Marilyn Dunlap Head Football Coach I believe there are several others. |
|
|
|
Post by alum on Dec 11, 2017 15:00:24 GMT -5
do any PL schools endow a coaching position? I believe that this is not uncommon in IL. HC does! Jim Kavanagh has been the Richard L. Ahern '51 Director of Cross Country, Track and Field for quite some time. |
|
