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Albany
Nov 25, 2017 20:41:14 GMT -5
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 25, 2017 20:41:14 GMT -5
We have replaced having some type of priority for defense in recruiting with caring solely about shooting. A losing formula. Surely you remember how much some freshmen struggled learning and adapting to the complex RW defense. The freshmen class are playing most of the minutes on this team, and it's unrealistic to expect they would just step in and pick multiple defenses up immediately. Comparing this defense to RW’s defense is OUTRAGEOUS, but you already knew that.
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Albany
Nov 26, 2017 10:39:07 GMT -5
Post by WorcesterGray on Nov 26, 2017 10:39:07 GMT -5
Telegram story . . .
Albany 78, Holy Cross 62: Crusader men’s basketball team falls to Great Danes at home Posted Nov 25, 2017 at 5:12 PM Updated Nov 25, 2017 at 5:26 PM
WORCESTER — Basketball is a game of runs, and unfortunately for the Holy Cross men’s team, the Crusaders ran into an Albany team that has been in a full sprint since the season began.
Behind a big game from junior guard Joe Cremo, the visiting Great Danes defeated the Crusaders, 78-62, Saturday at the Hart Center.
Albany (6-0) arrived at Worcester in the midst of a season-opening tear.
The Crusaders (2-3) have lost three straight after opening the season with two wins.
The Great Danes won their first five games with relative ease and were especially powerful last week when they averaged 96 points in blowout wins over Oneonta and Dartmouth.
Albany was led by Cremo, who poured in 30 points while going 7 of 10 from 3-point range.
“Somebody said (Creemo) had a career night; well, we assisted in that career night,” said Holy Cross coach Bill Carmody, who wasn’t pleased with his team’s inability to force Cremo to dribble instead of allowing him to spot up for jump shots. “We’ve played decently, and you could say there were a few good things from some of these young guys, but I don’t really take much solace in that.”
Holy Cross was led by junior Karl Charles, who had a team-high 16 points. Junior guard Patrick Benzan had 13 points and four assists.
The Crusaders fell behind early as the Great Danes jetted to an 18-8 lead, thanks, largely, to senior Travis Charles. Charles, a 6-foot-6, 235-pounder notched 10 of his team’s first 18 points.
The Great Danes’ lead grew to 28-15 midway through the first half before Jacob Grandison hit a 3-pointer to slice into the lead.
Holy Cross trimmed the first-half deficit to 30-25 with just more than four minutes to play in the first half, but David Nichols converted a 3-point play to end a 10-2 Crusaders run that included a long 3-pointer from freshman Connor Niego.
The Great Danes opened the game with several points in the paint, but went to the outside to close the half.
Cremo buried two treys in the final 90 seconds of the half to help his team to a 43-35 lead at the break.
Holy Cross had a noticeable focus on defensive intensity in the second half and used that effort to fuel a hot start and cut the lead to 50-47, when Benzan came up with a steal and a layup with 14:30 left.
“Sometimes our inexperience shows, but during that stretch, we did a great job of sticking to our principles, staying disciplined, being fundamentally sound, just doing what our coaches tell us to do,” Benzan said. “Playing a team like that, when you have miscues, Albany’s going to capitalize.”
That Crusader run, though, was stopped by Cremo, who drained his sixth 3-pointer on the afternoon to push the lead back to 55-47 with 13 minutes left.
Holy Cross again sliced into the lead when Matt Faw drained a 3-pointer to make it 61-56 with 6:50 left, but the Great Danes got a quick bucket from Charles and a floater in the lane from Cremo that made it 66-56 with 3:35 left.
Cremo then delivered the knockout punch with a 3-pointer from the corner and a transition layup that gave Albany a 73-58 lead with less than two minutes to play.
The Crusaders are off until they head to Northern Ireland, where they will take part in the Basketball Hall of Fame Belfast Classic.
Holy Cross opens against Manhattan Friday and will meet La Salle or Towson Saturday.
“I’m not real big on the bonding stuff,” Carmody said of the upcoming trip. “You play two games against two tough teams. We just want to see if we can get better. I still don’t even have my rotation down exactly.”
Carmody said he will work on ways in which he can get Faw, a promising 6-foot-9 freshman, more playing time, and devise lineups that feature Faw and 6-foot-8 junior Jehyve Floyd on the floor at the same time.
Floyd had 10 points and three blocked shots.
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Albany
Nov 26, 2017 11:00:14 GMT -5
Post by WorcesterGray on Nov 26, 2017 11:00:14 GMT -5
Telegram story . . . Carmody said he will work on ways in which he can get Faw, a promising 6-foot-9 freshman, more playing time, and devise lineups that feature Faw and 6-foot-8 junior Jehyve Floyd on the floor at the same time.We've talked here about this a little already, in the FDU thread. Believe this would really be helpful, especially if it could be done in the context of a straight zone, which would mask MF's match-up defensive weakness and reduce his fouls (currently a staggering 10+/ 40 minutes). Faw is scoring a team-best 20.3 points/40 (shooting 60%+, 50% from three), and his 6.3 rebs/40 is second only to Jehyve. Having the two of them on the floor together would improve the rebounding and - in the right scheme - probably improve the interior defense as well. Maybe have to wait until Carmody sees what, if anything, Stevens can do as JF's back-up. But really need to see Faw out there more than 12 mpg.
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Post by bigfan on Nov 26, 2017 11:19:18 GMT -5
Need Faw to learn tips from Togo,best teacher on how to rebound and play in the paint.
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Albany
Nov 26, 2017 11:55:43 GMT -5
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 26, 2017 11:55:43 GMT -5
The rebounding numbers are most discouraging. Here's how HC ranked (per KenPom) over the last 17 years among all D-1 teams
Offense= Rank for % of own missed shots rebounded Defense= Rank for preventing opponents from rebounding their missed shots
Year= Offensive/Defense
2001-02= 56/7 2002-03= 36/1 2003-04= 65/61 2004-05= 36/17 2005-06= 111/14 2006-07= 35/34 2007-08= 5/121 2008-09= 17/20
2009-10= 49/155
2010-11= 112/66 2011-12= 244/106 2012-13= 287/77 2013-14= 209/31 2014-15= 217/112
2015-16= 332/167 2016-17= 347/304 2017-18= 343/335 Note: incomplete season--no PL play yet
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 26, 2017 12:09:20 GMT -5
These rebounding numbers don't figure to improve.
Northwestern rebounding --
2012-13: 325 / 322 2011-12: 320 / 326 2010-11: 309 / 79 2009-10: 258 / 195 2008-09: 322 / 274 2007-08: 341 / 317
Do we need to see more?
Another statistic that is worth investigating more is defensive effective FG%. Holy Cross the past three seasons:
2017-18: 57.0% (309) 2016-17: 53.3% (304) 2015-16: 53.2% (311)
If we aren't forcing turnovers, we're screwed. Fortunately, last season, we ranked #3 in the nation in forcing turnovers, which was able to mask our incredibly poor defensive rebounding and defensive FG% numbers. This is a risky proposition, though. As we saw yesterday, Albany protected the ball nicely (turned the ball over just seven times).
At Northwestern:
2012-13: 48.2% (153) 2011-12: 51.6% (270) 2010-11: 52.5% (311) 2009-10: 48.3% (143) 2008-09: 49.6% (191) 2007-08: 56.8% (336)
It's a little unsettling, but I think Carm is betting on our ability to out-shoot teams.
The good thing about Willard's strategy is that defense and rebounding would show up every night. Team's can have an off-shooting night, but don't think that's the case with defense and rebounding.
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Post by hchoops on Nov 26, 2017 12:13:46 GMT -5
thanks for the stats what were Princeton's comparable numbers where the playing field was more balanced ?
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Albany
Nov 26, 2017 12:17:57 GMT -5
Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 26, 2017 12:17:57 GMT -5
thanks for the stats what were Princeton's comparable numbers where the playing field was more balanced ? My friend Ken Pomery's numbers do not go back that far. Was the playing field really more balance though in the Ivy League when Princeton and Penn were running roughshod over everyone?
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Albany
Nov 26, 2017 12:20:59 GMT -5
Post by WorcesterGray on Nov 26, 2017 12:20:59 GMT -5
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Albany
Nov 26, 2017 12:22:48 GMT -5
Post by hchoops on Nov 26, 2017 12:22:48 GMT -5
sov, i believe that the recruiting field was more balanced than when CBC was in the big 10. Princeton and Penn did a better job of recruiting and coaching during their reign. thanks, WG you have helped prove the defensive point. I still wonder about the def rebounding
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Albany
Nov 26, 2017 12:26:08 GMT -5
Post by WorcesterGray on Nov 26, 2017 12:26:08 GMT -5
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Albany
Nov 26, 2017 12:40:21 GMT -5
Post by WorcesterGray on Nov 26, 2017 12:40:21 GMT -5
If you believe the numbers, there seems to have been an increased emphasis on defensive rebounding occurring during the last few seasons, at least. Getting 2/3 of available rebounds defensively had Princeton ranked in the Top 100 twenty years ago. Last season, that performance would have ranked a team about 340th.
HC getting about 61% early on here this year.
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Albany
Nov 26, 2017 18:50:24 GMT -5
HC16 likes this
Post by Non Alum Dave on Nov 26, 2017 18:50:24 GMT -5
Reading the thread, I've seen a little, but not much, credit being given to Albany. I think the low turnovers was probably more what they did (and didn't do). We beat them last year with experience - we had the minutes heavy senior class, and Nichols and Cremo were still feeling their way along. Now they are juniors, and it shows.
Just my opinion, but I'm thinking the 2 straight wins to start the season proved to be a bit of fools gold, and got the board collectively excited (especially beating Harvard). After 5 games, is anyone really shocked with a 2-3 record?
Also wondering (and maybe this is a silly thought/question): with so many guys going from 32 minute games to 40 minutes, is there a mental (focus) hump to get over? Now, I know CG is the only guy even playing over 30 minutes, but still, I'm curious if focus might have something to do with the late game fades (I'm contradicting myself here to a degree, since I think Albany had a LOT to do with the last 5-6 minutes of yesterday's game.
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Albany
Nov 26, 2017 19:19:41 GMT -5
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 26, 2017 19:19:41 GMT -5
Reading the thread, I've seen a little, but not much, credit being given to Albany. I think the low turnovers was probably more what they did (and didn't do). We beat them last year with experience - we had the minutes heavy senior class, and Nichols and Cremo were still feeling their way along. Now they are juniors, and it shows. Just my opinion, but I'm thinking the 2 straight wins to start the season proved to be a bit of fools gold, and got the board collectively excited (especially beating Harvard). After 5 games, is anyone really shocked with a 2-3 record? Also wondering (and maybe this is a silly thought/question): with so many guys going from 32 minute games to 40 minutes, is there a mental (focus) hump to get over? Now, I know CG is the only guy even playing over 30 minutes, but still, I'm curious if focus might have something to do with the late game fades (I'm contradicting myself here to a degree, since I think Albany had a LOT to do with the last 5-6 minutes of yesterday's game. Here are the composite scores by quarter as recorded by Ken Pomeroy Holy Cross: vs Opponent then HC Advantage/(deficit) per game 1st QTR= 77 vs 85 HC (1.6) PTS per game 2nd QTR= 108 vs 88 HC + 4.0 PTS per game 3rd QTR= 74 vs 93 HC (3.8) PTS per game 4th QTR= 86 vs 120 HC (6.8) PTS per game
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Albany
Nov 26, 2017 19:45:13 GMT -5
Post by Tom on Nov 26, 2017 19:45:13 GMT -5
random thoughts
- i thought yesterday was the worst performance of the young season. Even against URI, I felt it was competitive until about the mid point of the second half. Albany seemed to be comfortably in control basically the whole way - maybe that quick 2nd half spurt. This was the only game thus far I felt like that
- For the past several years, it seems the team has played their worst from Thanksgiving to the end of finals. On the flip side, once finals are over come the best practices of the season. I usually refrain from judgement on any edition until the start of second semester. By that point, what you see is what you get.
- There has been talk about maybe Stevens helping out the rebounding woes. Early indications are Faw isn't ready to play anywhere but the middle of the zone, which seems to be Floyd's only spot. When Stevens is ready to contribute, he either has to be able to play with one of those guys, or take their minutes. I'm not sure that's the rebounding help
- Early on it looked like Niego was the last man on the bench. When Charles' injury got him into the URI line-up, he hasn't come out. Zignorski and LeSann seemed to have dropped to 9th and 10th men. HC used an 8 man rotation the other night
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Post by efg72 on Nov 26, 2017 20:29:43 GMT -5
New to the board, and find the analysis and comments interesting. The freshmen are talented and think they bring to this team what Garry Witts, Dave Mulquin, Tom Seaman and Charlie Browne brought to the program in 76-77/80-81. Different time and game but I think the comparison is legitimate and if I am correct the bigs along with a mature and talented CG this will be a group that enjoys success and moments of pleasure for alums and the Worcester community.
While you all know well, defense, especially a mixture of zone/match-ups, is very difficult for freshman to execute because most HS and AAU coaches have them playing m/m. Offensive skills, and the self confidence to create are unusual for freshmen, especially in a style and system that requires discipline and precision. But that does not look to be a big issue for most of this group.
As the players develop and better understand what the coaches, their teammates and the team need for them to be successful will take time. For example, the matador defense in the middle of the zone during the first half against Albany seemed to me to be little more than a desire to keep the experienced players out of foul trouble and on the floor for the entire game. I would be surprised if the coaching staff embraces that approach as part of future game plans.
Rotations for now are erratic and confusing as the staff sorts out who should be on the floor together and how to exploit match-ups when they get to Conference play. IMHO one starter is getting time that should go to any of the other freshmen as I think they have greater upside over the next few years. Some have talked about the recruiting gaps and roster balance, but the game being what it is today you would think the staff will have one or more openings at the end of this season as it is quite possible that not all freshmen will be happy with their future path at HC, and the upperclassmen might very well look at other options.
The balance of 2017 will see a number of different combinations, teaching and uneven performances. Guards come in ready to play in terms of skills, but need to have a better appreciation for strength, quickness and speed of the game. That takes coaching, hard work, film sessions and time. For the bigs( over 6’7”), they usually lag a year or so behind as their feet and bodies match up to their size. That is why I compared this group, although not as talented) to the Class of ‘81 bigs, who shared similar offensive skillsets entering HC. As someone mentioned earlier having Togo work with the big guys then served as a tremendous advantage.
I would encourage all of us to be patient this year, enjoy the games and the season for what it might bring. If you are like me, however, and watch games possession by possession, we will lose sight of the improvement and growth of the team and some of exciting plays they make this year and wonderful moments they bring to HC over the next four years.
As I said up front, different time and a different game but this group has the chance to be very good by 2021.
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Albany
Nov 26, 2017 20:42:10 GMT -5
Post by hchoops on Nov 26, 2017 20:42:10 GMT -5
welcome,efg interesting comparison with that class of 81 i hope we develop another Gary Witts Seaman and Mulquin could shoot from the outside the way Faw and Niego possibly will.. i guess the biggest difference is at the point. Green could be a special player.
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Albany
Nov 26, 2017 20:42:53 GMT -5
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Post by ncaam on Nov 26, 2017 20:42:53 GMT -5
Add 72 to the growing list of thoughtful posters. This has been a period of growth on the board. Manny intelligent posters have joined in.I disagree with much of what 72 says here, but he does so in such an interesting and thoughtful way that I give him much credit. Go cross go!
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Albany
Nov 26, 2017 20:49:14 GMT -5
Post by DiMarz on Nov 26, 2017 20:49:14 GMT -5
Welcome to the board efg72! nice opening post, I agree with all you said..I also believe this crop of freshmen will be quite a handful in a few seasons!
Post often! It's always good to hear what all posters have to say!
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 26, 2017 21:02:02 GMT -5
Add 72 to the growing list of thoughtful posters. This has been a period of growth on the board. Manny intelligent posters have joined in.I disagree with much of what 72 says here, but he does so in such an interesting and thoughtful way that I give him much credit. Go cross go! We are all so happy to have your approval and thoughts, Henry!
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 26, 2017 21:07:52 GMT -5
Welcome efg72 to Crossports. Post often.
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Post by efg72 on Nov 26, 2017 21:52:51 GMT -5
Interestingly Garry was a terrific defender, quick hands/feet, and long when he arrived. Adapted well to the very disciplined and deliberate offensive sets, and his offensive skills and instincts improved each day. Bob Ferry, GM of the Bullets loved him and the fact he worked so hard and was fundamentally sound.
David was a 6’7 shooter that could play the 2-3-4 and like his brother Mike(Nova NCAA Champ) was a terrific rebounder. Each year he delivered offensively and as a rebounder, and as a senior hit big shots to beat BC and a corner jumper at the buzzer to beat Southern Miss
Tom was special out of HS, and with a tremendous work rate became a very talented 4/5 his junior and senior year and a tough match-up for other bigs
Charlie Browne had his moments and is the kind of body this team would welcome in the middle. JF could then get minutes at the 4/5 and be more effective on both ends—reminds me a lot of Ernie Floyd but a year delayed in development.
IMO CG is not a traditional/true point guard ( I think he is a 1 1/2) but he is a wonderful combo guard/talent who you want on the floor for 40 min. I think he might develop faster if paired with MZ in the backcourt who could help him control the pace and direct the offense, and then have JF, KC and MF on the floor together. That would allow Carmody to bring experience and energy off the bench with PB and then rotate CN, JG, AB and JS as needed. As players develop that could change, but for now would give them a better chemistry and leadership on the floor.
CN reminds me of Tommy Seaman, but perhaps a bit better offensively away from the basket at this point. MF could be the most versatile player a year from now, JG seems to be sorting out how he should play, not unlike AB and most freshmen. AB is an interesting 2/3 and if he grows another inch or two a problem for inside players because he can pull them out and pass or shoot the 3. Not sure about Copeland although I saw him play a few years back.
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Albany
Nov 27, 2017 6:56:48 GMT -5
Post by hc811215 on Nov 27, 2017 6:56:48 GMT -5
Surely you remember how much some freshmen struggled learning and adapting to the complex RW defense. The freshmen class are playing most of the minutes on this team, and it's unrealistic to expect they would just step in and pick multiple defenses up immediately. Comparing this defense to RW’s defense is OUTRAGEOUS, but you already knew that. Thank God we are not comparing this team's offense with Fredo's offense. That would be depressing.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 27, 2017 8:27:44 GMT -5
Comparing this defense to RW’s defense is OUTRAGEOUS, but you already knew that. Thank God we are not comparing this team's offense with Fredo's offense. That would be depressing. Yes, this wonderful offense that is currently ranked 277th by KenPom. After finishing at 278 last year, and 307 the two years ago. RW's offense was ranked 270th in 2004, and then never again below 245. While at Western Kentucky, he averaged 84.2, 79.9, 85.1, 77.5 PPG in his four seasons. For the millionth time, he changed his style to fit what would win at HC instead of ramming his head into a wall thinking we could just out-shoot teams. The idea that he had no clue how to coach offense is just nonsense. HC's best chance to win is to grind more talented teams down, and that's exactly what RW's offense at HC was designed to do, and did. (For the record, I did not bring up RW. Again, it's other who are foolish enough to think a comparison between him and Carmody will stand up.)
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Albany
Nov 27, 2017 9:14:03 GMT -5
hc80 likes this
Post by rgs318 on Nov 27, 2017 9:14:03 GMT -5
So you are saying that the HC offense has been ranked higher each year...correct? Also, are you comparing the last 5 games to stats from full seasons? Meaningless, to be sure, at this point.
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