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Post by 6sader7 on Dec 9, 2017 17:34:47 GMT -5
What about Wake Forest?
I believer they're around 4,000 undergrad.
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Post by thecrossisback on Dec 9, 2017 17:54:10 GMT -5
UMass home field attendance on campus was 12,145. 11,889. 10,690. 9,028. 7,696 and they are an FBS independent.
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 9, 2017 19:04:43 GMT -5
Kill this thread. The premise is absurd. This board should have at least a tangential touch on reality and this one doesn't.
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Post by hc87 on Dec 9, 2017 20:20:55 GMT -5
Actually, why is thread so out of touch with reality?
25 years of bad football in the PL has warped our school's vision of football imo....
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Dec 9, 2017 20:26:15 GMT -5
Why? Because you'd see HC win the NCAA tournament again before you'd see them go 1A in football. Independent or otherwise. That's why.
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Post by hc87 on Dec 9, 2017 20:29:54 GMT -5
Mehhh....the college football world is changing drastically....I don't think the level of FCS will be around much longer nationally....schools will either go FBS, drop to D2/D3 or drop football altogether....let's be ahead of the curve for once.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Dec 9, 2017 20:36:50 GMT -5
1AA FB won't be around. Baseball in the NE is dead. Hockey a waste of resources. MBB blows and no one cares. Maybe it'd be a good idea if HC killed all sports and became Hampshire College.
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Post by hc87 on Dec 9, 2017 20:40:54 GMT -5
1AA FB won't be around. Baseball in the NE is dead. Hockey a waste of resources. MBB blows and no one cares. Maybe it'd be a good idea if HC killed all sports and became Hampshire College. No, let's go FBS Indy or CAA in football. Go Big East/A-10 in hoop and drop/keep Olympic sports accordingly. You, me and most everyone on this board knows that is the way the school should go athletically. Many are just afraid to say so.
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 9, 2017 20:46:53 GMT -5
I know it must just be me but I actually enjoy going to Holy Cross football games, especially when they are winning or contending for a league championship or playing Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth, Brown or UNH. I think there is nothing drastically wrong with Fitton Field and while the stadium is old and the bathrooms are decrepit, that's true in almost all college football stadiums in the Northeast. Besides, most of the time you are in the stands and I bring my own stadium seat and I am fine.
For basketball, while the team needs to play better and we've had a tough streak the last year or so before RW left, then SK and MB, I think we are on the right track. No, we aren't an ACC team or even an A-10 team but we are starting to bring in some solid players and CWC seems to have a plan to get us at least back to the successes under RW. We all need patience but we are already seeing some of the potential from our younger players. We've been down too long but another year or two should bring us back to better days.
Maybe it is blind faith but I personally believe patience in both sports will be rewarded.
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Post by hc87 on Dec 9, 2017 20:51:33 GMT -5
I applaud you sader1970 but you are emblamatic of the typical HC football/hoop fan today....we have a fair share of fans ovah 50+ but our fandom is dying on the vine with the Patriot League.
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 9, 2017 21:07:21 GMT -5
And why I started with the caveat: " I know it must just be me but . . ."
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Post by hc87 on Dec 9, 2017 23:35:27 GMT -5
I hear ya sader1970....but you must see it yourself....look around Fitton and/or Hart, do you see many people there who are in their 20s, 30s or 40s???
We are a dying breed my friend.
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 10, 2017 7:07:24 GMT -5
1AA FB won't be around. Baseball in the NE is dead. Hockey a waste of resources. MBB blows and no one cares. Maybe it'd be a good idea if HC killed all sports and became Hampshire College. No, let's go FBS Indy or CAA in football. Go Big East/A-10 in hoop and drop/keep Olympic sports accordingly. You, me and most everyone on this board knows that is the way the school should go athletically. Many are just afraid to say so. Am I part of that "everyone?" If so, please cross my name off that list. I know the future will certainly be different than the present, but let's not get so far ahead of the curve with premature changes that we go from overlooked to a laughing stock as we become multi-sport doormats.
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 10, 2017 7:09:00 GMT -5
I know it must just be me but I actually enjoy going to Holy Cross football games, especially when they are winning or contending for a league championship or playing Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth, Brown or UNH. I think there is nothing drastically wrong with Fitton Field and while the stadium is old and the bathrooms are decrepit, that's true in almost all college football stadiums in the Northeast. Besides, most of the time you are in the stands and I bring my own stadium seat and I am fine. For basketball, while the team needs to play better and we've had a tough streak the last year or so before RW left, then SK and MB, I think we are on the right track. No, we aren't an ACC team or even an A-10 team but we are starting to bring in some solid players and CWC seems to have a plan to get us at least back to the successes under RW. We all need patience but we are already seeing some of the potential from our younger players. We've been down too long but another year or two should bring us back to better days. Maybe it is blind faith but I personally believe patience in both sports will be rewarded. AMEN to that!
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 10, 2017 18:39:26 GMT -5
I hear ya sader1970....but you must see it yourself....look around Fitton and/or Hart, do you see many people there who are in their 20s, 30s or 40s??? We are a dying breed my friend. Unfortunately, this isn't wrong.
Former players excepted, if I were to decide on a Saturday morning that I wanted to spend a day where I would be guaranteed NOT to run into a Holy Cross classmate, Fitton Field might be one of the safest places in the Northeast to go.
And this problem isn't isolated to football. 2016 Cinderella run notwithstanding, the last REALLY good basketball team we had was over a decade ago now. I don't see many young people attending games in the Hart Center these days, either.
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Post by gks on Dec 10, 2017 18:47:14 GMT -5
The lack of interest is a result of a decade of terrible teams subtract a couple of exceptions. Win and fans will be interested again...doesn't matter what level you play.
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Post by efg72 on Dec 10, 2017 19:12:00 GMT -5
We enjoy a wonderful athletic history and tradition, but I am not sure you can call what exists today as much more than an average athletic program. That said over the next few years we have every opportunity to correct it with certain teams and then address those barriers to success, which include the admissions process, so these changes are sustainable. If successful, the school will have an athletic program that supports the values of the institution and Improves the college experiences for all of our students/student athletes.
Nobody is suggesting we compromise our academic standing, however it might be defined, but relaxing the AI average for the team to 170-175 ( IMO) would be fine and not hurt any intellectual experiences of the student body. While tough, Jim Halperin and Father Brooks were fair and they were willing to meet the kids, interview them, and make a call. Today I am not sure that happens.
We talk about the time in college being an opportunity to grow and educate the mind, body and soul, but I am not sure the Admissions staff looks beyond the mind and uses it as a process to meet the needs of the faculty.
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Post by ncaam on Dec 10, 2017 19:35:30 GMT -5
We are a below average program.
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Post by hcpride on Dec 10, 2017 19:46:40 GMT -5
We are a below average program. Football and men’s basketball yes. And for many years. Everyone knows that. But not every sport every year. Last year was an above average baseball year (relative to our PL competition) This year is more of a rebuilding year. And men’s lacrosse may not be too good but it’s trajectory seems upward at least.
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Post by thecrossisback on Dec 10, 2017 19:53:40 GMT -5
I am 18 and I went to the football game against Colgate and I plan on going to a few basketball games. I go because I like the teams, but they could step up their promotions!
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Post by richh on Dec 11, 2017 9:30:52 GMT -5
We enjoy a wonderful athletic history and tradition, but I am not sure you can call what exists today as much more than an average athletic program. That said over the next few years we have every opportunity to correct it with certain teams and then address those barriers to success, which include the admissions process, so these changes are sustainable. If successful, the school will have an athletic program that supports the values of the institution and Improves the college experiences for all of our students/student athletes. Nobody is suggesting we compromise our academic standing, however it might be defined, but relaxing the AI average for the team to 170-175 ( IMO) would be fine and not hurt any intellectual experiences of the student body. While tough, Jim Halperin and Father Brooks were fair and they were willing to meet the kids, interview them, and make a call. Today I am not sure that happens. We talk about the time in college being an opportunity to grow and educate the mind, body and soul, but I am not sure the Admissions staff looks beyond the mind and uses it as a process to meet the needs of the faculty. Not a fan of PL AI as it is now but it is extremely unlikely Presidents will abandon it altogether. It is not however a program killer. PL AI floor is well below the avg admissions levels of all PL football teams. Banding , as applied here, may limit the number of low band recruits. Each year PL redoes each school AI which sets their band parameters. I note that Lehigh and Colgate have higher AIs than Cross which has not adversely impacted their recruiting. Of course both have administration and admissions support. The AI was enacted to prevent Fordham from having a big advantage in recruiting with a lower AI than everyone else. IMO that edge was more imaginary than substantial. PL should return to leaving admissions up to each school without any banding. As a sop to Ivy Lite Presidents we could leave in a floor.
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Post by realism on Dec 11, 2017 10:33:29 GMT -5
I note that Lehigh and Colgate have higher AIs than Cross which has not adversely impacted their recruiting. Of course both have administration and admissions support. I can accept the assertions that H.C. has had more internal difficulty in fb admissions than other PL institutions. This may have as much to do with H.C. admissions trying to prevent their admissions metrics from deteriorating further as it does with problems with A.I. bands. This is a complex subject. I think H.C. supporters that want to throw out the "admissions card" as a defense/justification of the deterioration of their fb performance should exercise more care. H.C. is the only PL institution that has seen its acceptance rate balloon downward ( 39% ) over the same time its fb performance has deteriorated. Every other PL institution has enjoyed impressive improvement in their admissions metrics over the same time period. It wouldn't be surprising that the H.C admissions dept. was being "unpredictably" rigid compared to its PL peers. It's behind the 8 ball.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 11, 2017 12:30:54 GMT -5
Mathematically, I don't think accepting an additional few or a half dozen football players in the numerator could have much of an effect on the admissions percentage when you have many thousands of applicants in the denominator
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Post by realism on Dec 11, 2017 13:00:44 GMT -5
Mathematically, I don't think accepting an additional few or a half dozen football players in the numerator could have much of an effect on the admissions percentage when you have many thousands of applicants in the denominator Totally agree. The conjecture on this board is that admissions has been asserting its independence ( maintaining its credibility during a difficult period overall for admissions policy ), not seeking a mathematical impact. As Rich suggests above, it appears that admissions and athletic administration have greater synchronicity at other PL institutions. I'm merely suggesting the "admissions card" could be nuanced from the very comments made on this board.
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Post by crusader12 on Dec 11, 2017 14:45:56 GMT -5
Holy Cross football needs to drop the Patriot League. The conference is terrible. There are no rivalries, no excitement and no recognition. If they want more people to go to games, you need a reason for people to go. Right now the Patriot League is a joke. All it is doing is holding back the crusaders. If they go independent, they can play FBS teams like UConn, UMass, and Boston College more regularly. Also they can still play a patriot league team or two. Really a new conference needs to be founded. It should have Holy Cross, Umass, Boston College, Uconn, and any other teams in the northeast you want. Maybe Maine, Rhode Island or New Hampshire. You're about 30 years late and $100 million short.......
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