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Post by bison137 on Dec 26, 2017 10:54:06 GMT -5
Take away Eric Meister, and we were 8-36 FG. Thomas and Simmons a combined 3-21. That Saluki defense was one of the best in the country that season. I'm sure you know it, but for those who don't, Southern Illinois ranked #3 in the nation that year (Pomeroy) in defense. Carrying your shooting pct observation one step further, if you take away Meister and Clifford, the rest of the team was 4-29. There is a reason Southern IL earned a 4 seed, even after being upset in the MVC tournament.
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Post by possum on Dec 26, 2017 11:34:34 GMT -5
Obviously SIU was a tremendous defensive team and it wasn't going to be easy to score, however, you can't score if you don't shoot and Keith only took 5 shots. Sure Torey shot poorly but at least he was aggressive and got to the line 10 times and totaled 16 points. Against Duke McCollum only hit 9 of 24 shots but got to the line 16 times and scored 30 points because he remained aggressive. I don't care how good there defense was there's no way Keith should have only attempted 5 shots. A low mid major is never going to upset one of the higher seeds if their best player is completely taken out of the game.
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Post by HC1843 on Dec 26, 2017 11:41:26 GMT -5
I loved Keith as a player but his very poor effort against SIU was a horrible way to end his career, the Bucknell groups won legit NCAA games That SIU team was a juggernaut. The current team would have trouble scoring 40 points and getting 1 rebound against them. Almost every single HC team for the past 9 years would struggle against that team, even Milan's powerhouse 20 wins team. At the end of the day, there is whole hell of a lot of nitpicking on a team that is relying primarily on freshmen play. Could our sophomore class be stronger, sure, but that is not why we are losing, nor is it Carmody's coaching. We need senior leaders and we do not have them. That is what the current state of afairs boils down to. You all can keep being petty. Your choice. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Cheers.
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Post by hchoops on Dec 26, 2017 11:45:40 GMT -5
Obviously SIU was a tremendous defensive team and it wasn't going to be easy to score, however, you can't score if you don't shoot and Keith only took 5 shots. Sure Torey shot poorly but at least he was aggressive and got to the line 10 times and totaled 16 points. Against Duke McCollum only hit 9 of 24 shots but got to the line 16 times and scored 30 points because he remained aggressive. I don't care how good there defense was there's no way Keith should have only attempted 5 shots. A low mid major is never going to upset one of the higher seeds if their best player is completely taken out of the game. You certainly cannot bury that axe you are unjustifiably grinding for a great Crusader
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Post by hcnation on Dec 26, 2017 11:46:22 GMT -5
Tough draw. www.thefreelibrary.com/Salukis+sap+HC%27s+strengths.-a0160705183Byline: Jennifer Toland COLUMBUS, Ohio - Holy Cross' season ended here early yesterday morning - just after midnight - and for HC's players, coaches and fans, the 61-51 loss to Southern Illinois was a disappointing finish to a very fine year. Playing some of its best basketball over the final weeks of the season, Holy Cross came to Nationwide Arena with strong and legitimate hopes of pulling off a first-round NCAA tournament upset against the Salukis. SIU's relentless man-to-man defense prevented HC from finding any kind of offensive rhythm. Fouls and missed free throws (nine of them) also hurt the Crusaders as they suffered the program's ninth straight NCAA loss. "We were really excited to be here, but this is very disappointing for us," senior Keith Simmons said. "We didn't want to just show up and have fun, we wanted to win this game, and this loss does hurt." The game marked the end of the season and also the end of an era, as Simmons and Torey Thomas played their final games. Holy Cross coach Ralph Willard has called Simmons and Thomas two of the finest young men he's ever coached. "I think the biggest thing is not only have they been great players in the program, but they've also been great leaders on campus, very selfless people," Willard said. "You couldn't ask for better role models, representatives of our school. I'm very proud of them." The Salukis succeeded in shutting down Simmons (0 for 5 from the field, 4 points), while Thomas - trying to take the Crusaders on his back - scored a team-high 15 points, but was just 3 of 16 from the floor and turned the ball over seven times. Simmons, who came in averaging 17.3 points, was held to his least number of attempts in a game this season. He hadn't been held without a field goal since going 0 for 1 in 12 minutes against Marist in the 12th game of his freshman year. Simmons had scored in double figures in 44 straight games. "We just went out there and tried to pressure the ball the best we could," said SIU guard Tony Young, who did a good job on Simmons until getting in foul trouble. "We knew they had the strength and what they try to do, but that's always part of the game plan - try to take people out of the game." Simmons, who battled cramping issues last season, had no problems in that regard until Friday night. He had to go to the bench twice in the second half.
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 26, 2017 11:58:09 GMT -5
Thanks for posting this article. It is consistent with my memory that Keith had physical problems and battled more than just the Salukis.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 26, 2017 12:27:16 GMT -5
That SIU team was a juggernaut. The current team would have trouble scoring 40 points and getting 1 rebound against them. Almost every single HC team for the past 9 years would struggle against that team, even Milan's powerhouse 20 wins team. At the end of the day, there is whole hell of a lot of nitpicking on a team that is relying primarily on freshmen play. Could our sophomore class be stronger, sure, but that is not why we are losing, nor is it Carmody's coaching. We need senior leaders and we do not have them. That is what the current state of afairs boils down to. You all can keep being petty. Your choice. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Cheers. Nonsense. Would “senior leadership” help? Sure. Would seniors make us into a good defensive and rebounding team in the current system? No. If the 4 juniors are not bringing enough in the leadership department now (your implication, but I also don’t disagree with it), why should we expect them to magically change next year? We are struggling now because we have a poorly put together basketball team that has not been coached effectively, and is not put into a position where the whole can be greater than the sum of the parts. Any other excuse is just putting lipstick on the pig.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 26, 2017 12:30:15 GMT -5
The run to the NCAAs two years ago is blinding a lot of people around here about the struggles this program has endured under Carmody. I was cautiously optimistic heading into this season about the future of the program, but now I really don't feel so good about it. We are regressing.
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Post by hcpride on Dec 26, 2017 13:59:03 GMT -5
I'd expect the team this year and next year to be substantially down from last year's team (in terms of wins)...and last year's team was below .500. I think that is realistic.
(The team's Patriot League tournament win three years ago - on the heels of a very poor regular season - doesn't obscure the struggles under Coach Carmody)
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Post by HC1843 on Dec 26, 2017 16:24:48 GMT -5
Almost every single HC team for the past 9 years would struggle against that team, even Milan's powerhouse 20 wins team. At the end of the day, there is whole hell of a lot of nitpicking on a team that is relying primarily on freshmen play. Could our sophomore class be stronger, sure, but that is not why we are losing, nor is it Carmody's coaching. We need senior leaders and we do not have them. That is what the current state of afairs boils down to. You all can keep being petty. Your choice. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Cheers. Nonsense. Would “senior leadership” help? Sure. Would seniors make us into a good defensive and rebounding team in the current system? No. If the 4 juniors are not bringing enough in the leadership department now (your implication, but I also don’t disagree with it), why should we expect them to magically change next year? We are struggling now because we have a poorly put together basketball team that has not been coached effectively, and is not put into a position where the whole can be greater than the sum of the parts. Any other excuse is just putting lipstick on the pig. I simply do not see this as a coaching issue in its entirety. Someone much smarter than me once said PL teams rise and fall on upperclassmen. Accordingly, when you have six frosh playing where juniors and seniors should be, then you are going to be in a world of hurt. We do not have the experienced talent that we need....and, yes, the juniors are not getting it done. Cheers.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 26, 2017 16:32:30 GMT -5
The freshmen have played 48% of our minutes and scored 49% of our points
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Post by efg72 on Dec 26, 2017 17:45:20 GMT -5
We are fortunate to have a solid to strong group of individual players in the freshmen class-Otherwise it possibly could be worse.
I hope the staff is actively engaged in searching for senior talent in case we lose 1-3 players at the end of the season —transfer or injuries preventing them from playing. We don’t need an absence of senior leadership again.
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Post by hchoops on Dec 26, 2017 17:51:16 GMT -5
Rising seniors or juniors rarely transfer, even if it looks as if they will play little. Where would they go for free for two or three years at a comparable school ?
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Post by efg72 on Dec 26, 2017 18:13:02 GMT -5
Just saying it doesn’t hurt to be prepared. If a rising senior remains injured they could move that individual to financial aid and let him graduate without any hardship.
Your not looking or hoping for anybody to leave, but it happens and if a kid truly wants to play he will transfer as a rising junior
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Post by Tom on Dec 27, 2017 11:20:46 GMT -5
Just saying it doesn’t hurt to be prepared. If a rising senior remains injured they could move that individual to financial aid and let him graduate without any hardship. Your not looking or hoping for anybody to leave, but it happens and if a kid truly wants to play he will transfer as a rising junior Not the worst plan to keep your ear to the ground in case a scholarship becomes available. Just due diligence. That being said, although it happens on rare occasions, I think it is unlikely that any members of the classes of 2019 or 2020 will transfer out after spending 2-3 years here. Statistically freshmen are more likely to transfer than the older kids - and with six in the class of 2021, there are more opportunities so the chances increase. Obviously transferring to any other college on the planet will result in a downgrade in the overall college experience for anyone silly enough to consider leaving HC. Although losing a member of 2021 is more likely than the older kids, I think it is still unlikely. It's hard to imagine a 19 or 20 year old kid getting Criswell'ed, but sadly it can happen.Once again even with no scholarships available for next year, the staff should have some awareness of high school seniors, or PG's should the unthinkable happen. When we talk about a "rising senior remaining injured", my thoughts go to Perkins. For what it's worth, during the Sienna pre-game, Dick Lutsk said Perkins was recovering from shoulder surgery. With no inside information and wild speculation, I am assuming Perkins will be in uniform as a senior
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Post by ncaam on Dec 27, 2017 12:19:39 GMT -5
What is Lutsk smoking? At Iona game he said Siena game was the 29th. CBC had to correct him. Previous last word was an ankle.
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Post by dadominate on Dec 27, 2017 12:56:02 GMT -5
that southern illinois team was one of my favorite non-hc teams over the last 20 years. their defense was absolutely suffocating.
despite the fact that the salukis were/are a "no name" program, that was the worst possible matchup we could have faced in the tournament of any 4 seed that year (and arguably, any 3 or 2 seed for that matter) and my heart absolutely sunk when i saw the draw. despite having a 13 seed, that was the least optimistic i had been of all of our ncaa tournament appearances (including kansas when we were a 16 seed) as it was hard (for me at least) to envision how we could beat them.
i'll never forget traveling on the day of the game as nhteamer and i eventually succumbed to a winter storm - actually deboarding a plane in bwi, iirc? - and i attempted to then fly to the game from dc, eventually getting stuck there, as well. i heard that simmons was indeed cramping, but i think much of that can be attributed to the absolute bulldog defense he faced from siu and tony young (one of the top pound-for-pound defenders) and the effort he needed to exert just to touch the ball. when he did, he seemed exhausted. we hadn't faced defense like that and it was impossible (even for a great coach like rw) to prepare.
siu did everything we did under rw, only they did it better and with superior athletes. after a slow start to #1 seed kansas (which eventually doomed them), siu held kansas to the low 60s. much like our rw teams, they were too offensively challenged to get the big bucket they needed on the final possession of the game.
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Post by lou on Dec 27, 2017 13:14:38 GMT -5
Thanks dado ... the great Dick Enberg, died earlier this week at 82
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Post by hchoops on Dec 27, 2017 13:17:20 GMT -5
Thanks dado ... the great Dick Enberg, died earlier this week at 82 O My !
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Post by Tom on Dec 27, 2017 13:33:57 GMT -5
that southern illinois team was one of my favorite non-hc teams over the last 20 years. their defense was absolutely suffocating. despite the fact that the salukis were/are a "no name" program, that was the worst possible matchup we could have faced in the tournament of any 4 seed that year (and arguably, any 3 or 2 seed for that matter) and my heart absolutely sunk when i saw the draw. despite having a 13 seed, that was the least optimistic i had been of all of our ncaa tournament appearances (including kansas when we were a 16 seed) as it was hard (for me at least) to envision how we could beat them. i'll never forget traveling on the day of the game as nhteamer and i eventually succumbed to a winter storm - actually deboarding a plane in bwi, iirc? - and i attempted to then fly to the game from dc, eventually getting stuck there, as well. I was the least optimistic of Kentucky. Going in, I didn't think HC had a chance. After Kentucky, I thought HC had an outside chance vs Kansas You were not alone in your Columbus snow woes. Pat Doherty's dad was also snowed out and we wound up getting his ticket for former hoopster Derek Farkus '93
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Post by hchoops on Dec 27, 2017 15:25:22 GMT -5
I got snowed out of JFK watched in a NYC pub designated for HC alums, most were more interested in the beer than the ball.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Dec 27, 2017 18:25:34 GMT -5
that southern illinois team was one of my favorite non-hc teams over the last 20 years. their defense was absolutely suffocating. despite the fact that the salukis were/are a "no name" program, that was the worst possible matchup we could have faced in the tournament of any 4 seed that year (and arguably, any 3 or 2 seed for that matter) and my heart absolutely sunk when i saw the draw. despite having a 13 seed, that was the least optimistic i had been of all of our ncaa tournament appearances (including kansas when we were a 16 seed) as it was hard (for me at least) to envision how we could beat them. i'll never forget traveling on the day of the game as nhteamer and i eventually succumbed to a winter storm - actually deboarding a plane in bwi, iirc? - and i attempted to then fly to the game from dc, eventually getting stuck there, as well. i heard that simmons was indeed cramping, but i think much of that can be attributed to the absolute bulldog defense he faced from siu and tony young (one of the top pound-for-pound defenders) and the effort he needed to exert just to touch the ball. when he did, he seemed exhausted. we hadn't faced defense like that and it was impossible (even for a great coach like rw) to prepare. siu did everything we did under rw, only they did it better and with superior athletes. after a slow start to #1 seed kansas (which eventually doomed them), siu held kansas to the low 60s. much like our rw teams, they were too offensively challenged to get the big bucket they needed on the final possession of the game. Totally agree with your assessment of Keith's situation. That defense was suffocating enough to dehyrdrate anyone! A team full of tough guys; one to really admire (except for our game, sadly).
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Post by Tom on Dec 28, 2017 9:21:24 GMT -5
Nothing to do with the Saluki's, but through the OOC part of the schedule, Green, Butler, Grandison, and Niego have all been named HC player of the game. Only Butler's came in a winning effort.
Nice spread to have 4 different freshmen get that honor. It's a fairly recent promotion so you can't go back and say when we had multiple freshmen win it. Thompson and Alexander both had games as freshmen that might have been considered worthy of player of the game. Same can be said for Brown and Evans. That's about it for the last decade. Granted they've been forced to grow up faster than normal freshmen and they've been expectedly inconsistent, but this is one random metric saying the group has decent depth
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Post by hc6774 on Dec 28, 2017 9:30:53 GMT -5
Nothing to do with the Saluki's, but through the OOC part of the schedule, Green, Butler, Grandison, and Niego have all been named HC player of the game. Only Butler's came in a winning effort. Nice spread to have 4 different freshmen get that honor. It's a fairly recent promotion so you can't go back and say when we had multiple freshmen win it. Thompson and Alexander both had games as freshmen that might have been considered worthy of player of the game. Same can be said for Brown and Evans. That's about it for the last decade. Granted they've been forced to grow up faster than normal freshmen and they've been expectedly inconsistent, but this is one random metric saying the group has decent depth strength or weakness...what is the count for the junior class, excluding Floyd?
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Post by hchoops on Dec 28, 2017 9:48:49 GMT -5
Current weakness, future strength PB I think
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