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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 28, 2018 10:45:46 GMT -5
Building on WorcesterGray's post---Caleb and JG are both getting a lot more assists now-- getting used to the speed of the college game, y=understanding the offense better, knowing their teammates better, etc:
Caleb OOC= 380 minutes and 29 assists= 3.1 Assists/40 Minutes PL= 293 minutes and 35 assists= 4.8 assists per 40 minutes
Jacob OOC= 217 minutes and 11 assists= 2.0 /40 Minutes PL= 269 minutes and 26 assists= 3.9/40 minutes--this is an impressive number for a freshman non-PG
Austin Butler--not a big playmaker 1.9 OOC 1.7 PL
Matt Faw-- not a big playmaker 1.0 OOC 1.4 PL
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 28, 2018 10:46:50 GMT -5
If we get another crowd of 3,396 (no doubt someone will say that’s a false number, that there maybe 800 in the stands) we will have a leg up versus Lehigh. Attendance figure today was legit -- imagine students were salivating to finally have a home game while they were on campus. Somewhat surprised we broke 3K so easily considering our record and that the opponent was Lafayette, as opposed to last year's Homecoming sellout against local foe BU. Maybe the students wanted to see their Holy Cross team, featuring their classmates, more than an opponent featuring a group of strangers. Of course, that would make them Holy Cross fans so, in the mind of some posters, probably not likely.
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Post by HC92 on Jan 28, 2018 10:50:16 GMT -5
Yes, but these guys were particularly brutal even by PL standards. The foul differential was 9-1 well into the second half. I could accept that against Kentucky. Not against Lafayette. I've seen a lot of games where the team that didn't foul very much during the half end up being put at a disadvantage down the stretch. Kind of a reverse reward for staying out of foul trouble. True. It did help us kill a little extra time that we were not yet in the bonus when they had to start fouling.
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 28, 2018 10:56:57 GMT -5
The Jehyve technical on the dunk was a joke. And, to make it more maddening, the guy called it well after the play was over. I spoke with Reggie Greenwood regarding JF getting T'd up. He said it was the right call! He said that it is OK to grab the rim but you cannot bring your knees up. He said that JF was warned on the previous dunk (when he brought his knees up) that if it happened again he would get a T. He did say that it is OK to bring your knees up if you are doing so to protect yourself. Guess this is all open to interpretation of the rule. Maybe Dado or someone can give a reference to the rule. Have not seen this called before but will be looking for it in future games! I have seen it called, but the "knees up" is usually linked to hanging on the rim. That did not appear to be the case when the "T" was called. Could it have been called - yes. Should it have been called...probably not, especially in the middle of a Holy Cross streak. That could have been a real turning point for the Ards, but HC held tough and moved on.
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 28, 2018 10:58:58 GMT -5
Lafayette took 25 free throws to our 11, and our last 5 attempts came when Lafayette was intentionally fouling toward the end of the game. ...and when they had only three fouls called earlier, so they fouled intentionally (although, of course, that was never the call) over and over.
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Post by hchoops on Jan 28, 2018 12:12:48 GMT -5
IMHO, AB is by far the most improved freshmen this year from day one until now (Caleb started out of the gates more quickly) . . . Caleb has made some mature adjustments in his game during conference play. Not shooting as well, but he's become a better facilitator. During the OOC, he had 29 assists and 21 TOs, a 1.4:1 ratio - last ten games, he's had 33A, just 14TO (2.4:1). Making good decisions (e.g., the feed to Faw for the big three late) and showing plus recognition and skill, firing that one-handed pea to a streaking AB for the last basket of the first half. twitter.com/twitter/statuses/957345921817247744twitter.com/twitter/statuses/957345921817247744My favorite was the threaded pass to JF for a dunk, THE dunk ?
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jan 28, 2018 22:54:50 GMT -5
Aren't all PL Officiating Crews BRUTAL? Yes, but these guys were particularly brutal even by PL standards. The foul differential was 9-1 well into the second half. I could accept that against Kentucky. Not against Lafayette. I was actually thinking with about five min to go yesterday that I hadn't seen a differential like that since the second half of the Duke game in December 2006.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Jan 28, 2018 23:05:52 GMT -5
On Saturdays, especially during the conference play portion of the season, with nearly every D1 squad playing, means bottom feeder leagues like the PL get bottom of the barrel zebras.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 29, 2018 9:46:49 GMT -5
Yes, but these guys were particularly brutal even by PL standards. The foul differential was 9-1 well into the second half. I could accept that against Kentucky. Not against Lafayette. I was actually thinking with about five min to go yesterday that I hadn't seen a differential like that since the second half of the Duke game in December 2006. It's not the job of referees to call an even number of fouls on each team. As shaky as some calls may be, it is extremely rare that referees actually have an impact on the game. For every call that may go against HC, there is the same likelihood that a call will go in HC's favor (for example, a ball that went out of bounds off Grandison down the stretch on Saturday was given to HC rather than Lafayette). Fans tend to only see and emphasize the calls that go against their team.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 29, 2018 12:07:32 GMT -5
Oh, the irony!
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Post by CHC8485 on Jan 29, 2018 12:13:43 GMT -5
I expect bad calls both ways that generally even out over the course of a game, but whether the refs are good or bad, I expect them to be consistent.
On Saturday, in the second half in particular, the officiating was, to be kind, uneven.
They were calling touch fouls on HC and not calling the same thing on the other end against Lafayette. The disparity in talent and style of play between the two teams was not the 9-1 foul differential on the scoreboard with about 5 minutes to play.
I think that's all most are saying about the bad officiating.
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Post by purplenurple on Jan 29, 2018 13:32:46 GMT -5
Board Question: Was that Dave screaming at the ref w/about 5 min to go? Possible Tim...I kept it together most of the way, but I remember losing it a bit around then....don't even remember the call! By the way, I wonder if 57 points Is a record for 2 PL frosh in the same game? It may have been me ....I was letting him have it, with JF dunk call, the subsequent run Laffy went on, along with a number of ticky tack calls, I was frustrated. I waited for relative quiet in the gym before I unleashed. Thankfully my wife had to take a call around that time so she did not scold me afterwards. She knew she was marrying into a fan of passionate fans having attended premarital games with my dad and I.
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Post by hchoops on Jan 29, 2018 14:11:14 GMT -5
Jehyve named C&R Crusader of the Week
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 29, 2018 14:14:29 GMT -5
I expect bad calls both ways that generally even out over the course of a game, but whether the refs are good or bad, I expect them to be consistent. On Saturday, in the second half in particular, the officiating was, to be kind, uneven. They were calling touch fouls on HC and not calling the same thing on the other end against Lafayette. The disparity in talent and style of play between the two teams was not the 9-1 foul differential on the scoreboard with about 5 minutes to play. I think that's all most are saying about the bad officiating. Talent differential has no direct correlation with # of fouls called. If a team passes the ball around the perimeter and shoots a ton of 3's they are not going to be drawing fouls. If you look at the first half of the second half, 8 of our first 14 shots were 3FGs (57% -- the highest % in the country this year is 56%), compared to only 5 of Lafayette's first 14 shots being 3FGs (26% -- the lowest % in the country this year is 23%). Unlike talent differential, aggressiveness would have a direct correlation with drawing fouls. The idea that there would be some type of bias or conspiracy against one team that would create a 9-1 foul differential is just lunacy. 4
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 29, 2018 14:58:04 GMT -5
The 75th percentile for 3FG rate is 41.3% (HC is at 42.2%). Of the 88 teams who shoot a higher 3FG rate than that, only 14% are in the top 100 in Free Throw Rate, compared to 50% in the bottom 100, and 71% in the bottom half for FT rate.
There are only 4 teams who take over 50% of their FGAs from beyond the 3 point line -- their average FT rate ranking is 320.5.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 29, 2018 15:13:29 GMT -5
Nice recap--I don't think anyone would argue with the analysis.
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Post by CHC8485 on Jan 29, 2018 15:54:20 GMT -5
I expect bad calls both ways that generally even out over the course of a game, but whether the refs are good or bad, I expect them to be consistent. On Saturday, in the second half in particular, the officiating was, to be kind, uneven. They were calling touch fouls on HC and not calling the same thing on the other end against Lafayette. The disparity in talent and style of play between the two teams was not the 9-1 foul differential on the scoreboard with about 5 minutes to play. I think that's all most are saying about the bad officiating. Talent differential has no direct correlation with # of fouls called. If a team passes the ball around the perimeter and shoots a ton of 3's they are not going to be drawing fouls. If you look at the first half of the second half, 8 of our first 14 shots were 3FGs (57% -- the highest % in the country this year is 56%), compared to only 5 of Lafayette's first 14 shots being 3FGs (26% -- the lowest % in the country this year is 23%). Unlike talent differential, aggressiveness would have a direct correlation with drawing fouls. The idea that there would be some type of bias or conspiracy against one team that would create a 9-1 foul differential is just lunacy. 4 No one said there was a bias in officiating due to talent differential. But talent differential leads to more fouls by the less talented team - i.e., a middle of the pack team will commit more fouls against the #5 team in the country than they will against the # 340 team. That's what you would generally expect as a smaller, slower, less talented team will grab more, be a half beat late, etc against a bigger, faster, more talented team team. The 75th percentile for 3FG rate is 41.3% (HC is at 42.2%). Of the 88 teams who shoot a higher 3FG rate than that, only 14% are in the top 100 in Free Throw Rate, compared to 50% in the bottom 100, and 71% in the bottom half for FT rate. There are only 4 teams who take over 50% of their FGAs from beyond the 3 point line -- their average FT rate ranking is 320.5. Convenient that you left out that Lafayette has a HIGHER 3FG rate than us (43.2%) and though their FT rate is higher (30.3% vs. 26.1%) we had 59 FGA to their 49 on Saturday, so .... On average, in that game Saturday the FTA should have been roughly the same (15) if that was an average game. Lafayette took 25 FT, HC 11. I am NOT saying or even hinting that there was a conspiracy against Holy Cross, simply that the game was unevenly officiated and therefore the referees were AWFUL in the game. Period.
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Post by ncaam on Jan 29, 2018 15:56:26 GMT -5
Our not getting fouled in the Lafayette game was similar to what has been going on all year. Do all the refs all hate us?
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 29, 2018 16:34:10 GMT -5
Talent differential has no direct correlation with # of fouls called. If a team passes the ball around the perimeter and shoots a ton of 3's they are not going to be drawing fouls. If you look at the first half of the second half, 8 of our first 14 shots were 3FGs (57% -- the highest % in the country this year is 56%), compared to only 5 of Lafayette's first 14 shots being 3FGs (26% -- the lowest % in the country this year is 23%). Unlike talent differential, aggressiveness would have a direct correlation with drawing fouls. The idea that there would be some type of bias or conspiracy against one team that would create a 9-1 foul differential is just lunacy. 4 No one said there was a bias in officiating due to talent differential. But talent differential leads to more fouls by the less talented team - i.e., a middle of the pack team will commit more fouls against the #5 team in the country than they will against the # 340 team. That's what you would generally expect as a smaller, slower, less talented team will grab more, be a half beat late, etc against a bigger, faster, more talented team team. The 75th percentile for 3FG rate is 41.3% (HC is at 42.2%). Of the 88 teams who shoot a higher 3FG rate than that, only 14% are in the top 100 in Free Throw Rate, compared to 50% in the bottom 100, and 71% in the bottom half for FT rate. There are only 4 teams who take over 50% of their FGAs from beyond the 3 point line -- their average FT rate ranking is 320.5. Convenient that you left out that Lafayette has a HIGHER 3FG rate than us (43.2%) and though their FT rate is higher (30.3% vs. 26.1%) we had 59 FGA to their 49 on Saturday, so .... On average, in that game Saturday the FTA should have been roughly the same (15) if that was an average game. Lafayette took 25 FT, HC 11. I am NOT saying or even hinting that there was a conspiracy against Holy Cross, simply that the game was unevenly officiated and therefore the referees were AWFUL in the game. Period. Where Lafayette ranks over the course of the year is essentially irrelevant to the 9-1 foul stretch on Saturday that was brought up here. During that stretch, Lafayette took 26% of their shots from 3, versus 57% for HC.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 29, 2018 16:56:42 GMT -5
No one said there was a bias in officiating due to talent differential. But talent differential leads to more fouls by the less talented team - i.e., a middle of the pack team will commit more fouls against the #5 team in the country than they will against the # 340 team. That's what you would generally expect as a smaller, slower, less talented team will grab more, be a half beat late, etc against a bigger, faster, more talented team team. Convenient that you left out that Lafayette has a HIGHER 3FG rate than us (43.2%) and though their FT rate is higher (30.3% vs. 26.1%) we had 59 FGA to their 49 on Saturday, so .... On average, in that game Saturday the FTA should have been roughly the same (15) if that was an average game. Lafayette took 25 FT, HC 11. I am NOT saying or even hinting that there was a conspiracy against Holy Cross, simply that the game was unevenly officiated and therefore the referees were AWFUL in the game. Period. During that stretch, Lafayette took 26% of their shots from 3, versus 57% for HC. Mousetrapped.
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Post by CHC8485 on Jan 29, 2018 18:07:19 GMT -5
Mousetrapped, perhaps, if the math were right.
A quick reconstruction from the play by play - 8 of Lafayette's 22 shots in the first 15 minutes of the second half (36.4%) were from 3. HC still took about 50% of our shots from 3 during that time, but it's not like we weren't going inside and driving at all for 15 minutes. The styles of play were not that disperate, but yes LC was getting in the lane and to the hoop more. But not THAT much more.
You seem to have no qualms saying the coaching or the playing is bad. Why can't officiating be bad?
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Post by ncaam on Jan 29, 2018 18:41:51 GMT -5
Officiating in the patriot league stinks every night. I’m just saying the bad officiating can’t go against us in every case. To suggest so is absurd.
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 29, 2018 18:53:57 GMT -5
As a former and current official, the two biggest problems with officials are inconsistent calls, and not knowing the rule book (and how it is to be applied). Of the two, the Cardinal Sin is inconsistency - IMHO. A distant third is making anticipatory calls...where the violation the official expected to occur never actually happens.
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