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Post by hc811215 on Feb 14, 2018 12:04:31 GMT -5
Probably just my purple tinted glasses, but I thought the students represented their position well. Healthy disagreement about issues is what makes for academic rigor. You can't expect the students who were leading the charge for the name change to not be disappointed at the decision. To many current students, and even some alumni, the name evokes participants in the actual Crusades. The administration has stated that it wants to distance itself from that meaning of the term and in conjunction with such distancing will revisit the visual representation. I think these students and faculty are just keeping pressure on the administration to make the change in visual representation. Their shocking supposition that the BoTs may have given more weight to important donors than current students may be offensive to some; however, it is hard to imagine that loss of donor dollars did not enter into the decision making.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 14, 2018 12:05:19 GMT -5
Read all the comments in the Telegram. Faculty members can leave and find another college job if they think they're so valuable. As for the students, leave also if you don't like what HC has historically represented. Oh, by the way, read true historical accounts of the Islamic incursions into Europe and slavery/slaughter of thousands/millions. Cupcakes! I wonder if these students knew that Holy Cross had the Crusader as its mascot when they applied to the school?
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 14, 2018 12:23:37 GMT -5
Let's see, they got this published in the T&G on Wednesday, but it won't be sent to the President until Friday. I guess publicity is more important than Holy Cross and its administration in their eyes. This is the "let's have free and open discussion and then keep it up until we get what we want." Nonsense. I went back to an old avatar. Muslims and Jews are welcome. But, if they will only come when HC changes, then another school might be a better choice for them. It seems that some possible future applicants are felt to more important than alumni who contribute to support the school (including those faculty and student "whiners"). Amazing. There is already a discussion of how to best represent the Crusader moving forward. The destruction of the name and HC tradition is now officially over. I am fine with that. It seems this call for more "open discussion" is only to find a way to get what a minority of members of the Holy Cross Community want. (Also, I am an alum who contributes to HC annually - even after my son was not accepted. I am sorry to see that expressed with such distain.) Perhaps we could start an alumni open forum on cutting faculty salaries so that undergrads can have more financial aid...and keep having it until salaries are cut. Not a good idea? Why not? It seems that this small group wants everything on the table for discussion.
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Post by thecrossisback on Feb 14, 2018 12:28:11 GMT -5
Read all the comments in the Telegram. Faculty members can leave and find another college job if they think they're so valuable. As for the students, leave also if you don't like what HC has historically represented. Oh, by the way, read true historical accounts of the Islamic incursions into Europe and slavery/slaughter of thousands/millions. Cupcakes! I wonder if these students knew that Holy Cross had the Crusader as its mascot when they applied to the school? Of course they did. How can you avoid something like that during orientation. It's just a plot to get in the news and push political views on everybody else. The article says 85 people signed a petition. So what? A small group of people are mad, so we change everything?! “I’m trying to get a group of students to commit to a day,” said Ms. Bowles, who added tjat she knows there are students from marginalized backgrounds who “adamantly disagree” with keeping the nickname. “I personally hate to think there are Muslims or Jewish students who look at this school and say, ‘I can never be a Crusader.’ ” This nonsense, irks me to the nth degree. A protest. You know what I would tell them. Be Quiet and Go Home. Please. Go help the homeless. Go help people effected by human rights violations across the world. Do something that really matters.
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Post by hcpride on Feb 14, 2018 12:38:10 GMT -5
Perhaps the snowflakes don't realize there are no actual medieval crusaders on campus - that is the only rational explanation for the frighty-scared bleating from this handful of triggered millennials.
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Post by Tom on Feb 14, 2018 12:46:59 GMT -5
Probably just my purple tinted glasses, but I thought the students represented their position well. Healthy disagreement about issues is what makes for academic rigor. You can't expect the students who were leading the charge for the name change to not be disappointed at the decision. To many current students, and even some alumni, the name evokes participants in the actual Crusades. The administration has stated that it wants to distance itself from that meaning of the term and in conjunction with such distancing will revisit the visual representation. I think these students and faculty are just keeping pressure on the administration to make the change in visual representation. Their shocking supposition that the BoTs may have given more weight to important donors than current students may be offensive to some; however, it is hard to imagine that loss of donor dollars did not enter into the decision making. I expect them to be disappointed. People who voiced their opinion on the topic were about 90 percent in favor of the Crusader. Support among the students was somewhat less (I believe I read 83 percent) but still a significant majority. If we were talking about abolishing slavery or getting the vote for women, I can see the moral imperative to fight on even though a vast majority opposes you. We are talking about a nickname here. I expect them to be disappointed but move on. I don't recall Walter Mondale wanting a recount
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Post by ncaam on Feb 14, 2018 12:55:25 GMT -5
Hopefully there is a safe space for them to retire to.
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Post by crusader12 on Feb 14, 2018 12:56:55 GMT -5
Don't like it? TRANSFER!!!!!!!
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Post by alum on Feb 14, 2018 13:02:17 GMT -5
Don't like it? TRANSFER!!!!!!! Because that is what you do every time you disagree with anything in life? Run away? There is nothing wrong with a few people complaining. How would it be college if they were not?
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Post by crusader12 on Feb 14, 2018 13:02:45 GMT -5
It's simple. Don't like it? Transfer!
Moving on!
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Post by hc811215 on Feb 14, 2018 13:05:03 GMT -5
Probably just my purple tinted glasses, but I thought the students represented their position well. Healthy disagreement about issues is what makes for academic rigor. You can't expect the students who were leading the charge for the name change to not be disappointed at the decision. To many current students, and even some alumni, the name evokes participants in the actual Crusades. The administration has stated that it wants to distance itself from that meaning of the term and in conjunction with such distancing will revisit the visual representation. I think these students and faculty are just keeping pressure on the administration to make the change in visual representation. Their shocking supposition that the BoTs may have given more weight to important donors than current students may be offensive to some; however, it is hard to imagine that loss of donor dollars did not enter into the decision making. I expect them to be disappointed. People who voiced their opinion on the topic were about 90 percent in favor of the Crusader. Support among the students was somewhat less (I believe I read 83 percent) but still a significant majority. If we were talking about abolishing slavery or getting the vote for women, I can see the moral imperative to fight on even though a vast majority opposes you. We are talking about a nickname here. I expect them to be disappointed but move on. I don't recall Walter Mondale wanting a recount I don't think I ever saw a student poll number. 83% would surprise me. I just googled it and couldn't find anything. I think you will be hearing from students and faculty until the school changes the visual representation. You really can't blame them for wanting to see some follow through on their issue.
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Post by alum on Feb 14, 2018 13:06:08 GMT -5
It's simple. Don't like it? Transfer! Moving on! Because running away makes more sense than trying to change something for what you believe (right or wrong) is better.
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Post by deep Purple on Feb 14, 2018 13:23:15 GMT -5
I’m sure it’s been noted by others before, but these same students very likely have a problem with the name of the college as well.
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Post by rickii on Feb 14, 2018 13:38:18 GMT -5
As I said previously.... good bye, good luck and best wishes to finding what your looking for....elsewhere !
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Post by joutsHC77 on Feb 14, 2018 13:48:34 GMT -5
I’m sure it’s been noted by others before, but these same students very likely have a problem with the name of the college as well. Probably true.
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Post by Tom on Feb 14, 2018 14:15:59 GMT -5
I expect them to be disappointed. People who voiced their opinion on the topic were about 90 percent in favor of the Crusader. Support among the students was somewhat less (I believe I read 83 percent) but still a significant majority. If we were talking about abolishing slavery or getting the vote for women, I can see the moral imperative to fight on even though a vast majority opposes you. We are talking about a nickname here. I expect them to be disappointed but move on. I don't recall Walter Mondale wanting a recount I don't think I ever saw a student poll number. 83% would surprise me. I just googled it and couldn't find anything. I think you will be hearing from students and faculty until the school changes the visual representation. You really can't blame them for wanting to see some follow through on their issue. The 83 percent was from a poll to keep the name of the paper "The Crusader" I do not know of a referendum on the nickname of the school. I made the assumption that there would be very few students who wanted to keep the name of paper the Crusader but change the nickname of the sports teams
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Post by hc6774 on Feb 14, 2018 14:28:46 GMT -5
Perhaps the push-backers to the BoT decision would suggest a mascot/iconography that would be acceptable to them. After all, to the extent they participated in the name change to the student newspaper, they appeared to have reach a result acceptable to many although their reasoning was not as widely accepted.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Feb 14, 2018 14:32:57 GMT -5
What was the decision of the college?
The moniker stays, and the visual depiction of the moniker, i.e., the mascot, will be changed.
The chair of the BoT unambiguously declared there will be no association with the medieval knights who went 'crusading' to the Holy Land, or places along the way, such as Constantinople or the Rhineland.
This is stare decisis.
I await to read the persuasive arguments that will overturn the decision by the college. __________________
My ancestral family, of whom numerous members, by blood or marriage, became leaders and financiers of the First Crusade, was at the forefront of William the Conquerors campaign in 1069-70 in northern England, --Lincolnshire to be precise. The campaign is called the Harrying of the North. The death toll of English (Catholic English, BTW) was estimated by contemporary chroniclers as 100,000 or more That represented six percent of the entire English population This was a scorched earth genocidal campaign. More English died, as a percentage of the population, than Jews did in the Holocaust.
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 14, 2018 14:41:27 GMT -5
I think "The Spire" our have pleased at least one great figure in history...Vlad the Impaler. Scourge of Muslin invaders, also known as Count Dracula.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Feb 14, 2018 15:05:04 GMT -5
I think "The Spire" our have pleased at least one great figure in history...Vlad the Impaler. Scourge of Muslin invaders, also known as Count Dracula. All well and good, but Vlad impaled mostly Saxons. Vlad was Eastern Orthodox, and his realm was under the Ottoman Empire, whose Muslim leaders were astounded by his cruelty (of the Saxons).
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Post by hc2489 on Feb 14, 2018 15:43:46 GMT -5
"there was no real forum for conversation"
There was literally two public forums about this on campus.
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Post by Tom on Feb 14, 2018 16:07:12 GMT -5
I’m sure it’s been noted by others before, but these same students very likely have a problem with the name of the college as well. I think it's very likely that if someone has a sincere issue with the Crusader, they would also have an issue the symbol of the Cross. However, I wouldn't be surprised if there are some who's belief isn't that deep but are on board because protest a cause is kind of a collegiate thing to do
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Post by hc811215 on Feb 14, 2018 16:11:40 GMT -5
I’m sure it’s been noted by others before, but these same students very likely have a problem with the name of the college as well. That seems like a real straw man argument. I don't believe these students have ever expressed any need for a name change. They seem bright enough to distinguish between the actual holy cross and the crusades. Pope John Paul II apologized for the excess of the crusades and there is general agreement that the crusades were not a high point in church history. That is why Fr. Boroughs and the BofTs are looking at ways to disassociate the term "Crusader" from the historical crusades.
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 14, 2018 16:12:34 GMT -5
Anyone else remember the late 60s protest on the hill when they tried to raise the price of the fresh donuts in the caf from 5 cents to 10 cents? Now THERE was a cause.
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 14, 2018 16:14:25 GMT -5
Not necessarily a straw man argument. Remember not too long ago when Muslim students at Georgetown wanted crucifixes taken down on their DC campus?
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