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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 25, 2019 10:51:14 GMT -5
All great points that would make a major difference, but Ralph Willard proved that you can be successful at Holy Cross with those limitations in place. Those are also changes that will take quite a bit of time (if not forever) to implement, so it would not be wise to wait for them to be in place before replacing Carmody - a horrible fit for what we need our basketball coach to be right now. While I agree Ralph is an excellent coach, he had the benefit of playing with scholarships while the rest of the league was transitioning. He made the most it. But even he struggled at the end of his tenure. While the scholarship thing is true, most of his teams would have steamrolled the PL the last few years. The struggles in his final two years had far more to do with injuries than Colgate and Lafayette having scholarships (he was 5-0 against those teams with a somewhat healthy roster in his final year). In 07-08, HC was in the top 5 of the Mid-Major Top 25 when the team was healthy, and after a disastrous PL regular season, they had the eventual PL Champ beat if Pat Doherty (a career 78% FT shooter) made free throws in the final minute. In 08-09, they finished second in the regular season (11-3 record) and lost in the PLC. Lehigh started offering scholarships in 99-00, American always offered scholarships and had a few years with players who got into school before they entered the PL, Army and Navy have always been Army and Navy, and Bucknell was better with non-schollie teams under Flannery from 05-07 than they have been recently. The only other teams who added scholarships were Colgate and Lafayette -- two teams that would not have provided a serious threat to the RW teams. The last 7 guys that RW signed (Evans, Brown, Cavataio, Stevens, Beans, Obeysekere, Goens) would go to town against any collection of 7 guys who Carmody has signed over his 3.5 years. Ralph Willard was superior to Bill Carmody as a coach, recruiter, player developer, and program manager. End.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Jan 25, 2019 10:51:19 GMT -5
KY, you are measured and wise as always. And your post isn't wrong. However, if this specific forum is about athletics, athletics performance, our commentary on such, then criticism is not only accurate, but in my opinion, warranted. We are not saying that HC is not worthy of any willing and able student's attendance, and hard-earned (borrowed?) tuition dollars.
What I would say is that along the lines of our own standings in athletics, there is likely more the college can do to benefit the many programs they maintain while not jeopardizing the academic performance HC is known for. Furthermore, I would argue it could feasibly help the academic standing of the college, and broaden the application base.
I don't think any student or student athlete who chooses to attend HC would regret it. I continue to recommend alma mater no matter what.
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Post by Ignutz on Jan 25, 2019 11:33:01 GMT -5
KY, you are measured and wise as always. And your post isn't wrong. However, if this specific forum is about athletics, athletics performance, our commentary on such, then criticism in not only accurate, but in my opinion, warranted. We are not saying that HC is not worthy of any willing and able student's attendance, and hard-earned (borrowed?) tuition dollars. What I would say is that along the lines of our own standings in athletics, there is likely more the college can do to benefit the many programs they maintain while not jeopardizing the academic performance HC is known for. Furthermore, I would argue it could feasibly help the academic standing of the college, and broaden the application base. I don't think any student or student athlete who chooses to attend HC would regret it. I continue to recommend alma mater no matter what. No better evidence of strengthening the academic standing and broadening the application base than down the road at Flutie U.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 25, 2019 13:42:35 GMT -5
While I agree Ralph is an excellent coach, he had the benefit of playing with scholarships while the rest of the league was transitioning. He made the most it. But even he struggled at the end of his tenure. While the scholarship thing is true, most of his teams would have steamrolled the PL the last few years. The struggles in his final two years had far more to do with injuries than Colgate and Lafayette having scholarships (he was 5-0 against those teams with a somewhat healthy roster in his final year). In 07-08, HC was in the top 5 of the Mid-Major Top 25 when the team was healthy, and after a disastrous PL regular season, they had the eventual PL Champ beat if Pat Doherty (a career 78% FT shooter) made free throws in the final minute. In 08-09, they finished second in the regular season (11-3 record) and lost in the PLC. Lehigh started offering scholarships in 99-00, American always offered scholarships and had a few years with players who got into school before they entered the PL, Army and Navy have always been Army and Navy, and Bucknell was better with non-schollie teams under Flannery from 05-07 than they have been recently. The only other teams who added scholarships were Colgate and Lafayette -- two teams that would not have provided a serious threat to the RW teams. The last 7 guys that RW signed (Evans, Brown, Cavataio, Stevens, Beans, Obeysekere, Goens) would go to town against any collection of 7 guys who Carmody has signed over his 3.5 years. Ralph Willard was superior to Bill Carmody as a coach, recruiter, player developer, and program manager. End. Would you indulge us all on a little ranking exercise? You're the coach in this case, not Ralph or Bill Carmody. You're staring a team. so this is not a matter of what the current team needs or what any other team needs. How would you rank Ralph's 7 and the 6 current Holy Cross sophomores 1 thru 13. So, #1 is, in your opinion, the best or most desired of the 13 players (Ralph's 7 plus Grandison, Green, Butler, Faw, Niego, Copeland) , #2 is the second most desired, and so forth. 1= 2= 3= 4= 5= 6= 7= 8= 9= 10= 11= 12= 13=
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 25, 2019 13:59:09 GMT -5
While the scholarship thing is true, most of his teams would have steamrolled the PL the last few years. The struggles in his final two years had far more to do with injuries than Colgate and Lafayette having scholarships (he was 5-0 against those teams with a somewhat healthy roster in his final year). In 07-08, HC was in the top 5 of the Mid-Major Top 25 when the team was healthy, and after a disastrous PL regular season, they had the eventual PL Champ beat if Pat Doherty (a career 78% FT shooter) made free throws in the final minute. In 08-09, they finished second in the regular season (11-3 record) and lost in the PLC. Lehigh started offering scholarships in 99-00, American always offered scholarships and had a few years with players who got into school before they entered the PL, Army and Navy have always been Army and Navy, and Bucknell was better with non-schollie teams under Flannery from 05-07 than they have been recently. The only other teams who added scholarships were Colgate and Lafayette -- two teams that would not have provided a serious threat to the RW teams. The last 7 guys that RW signed (Evans, Brown, Cavataio, Stevens, Beans, Obeysekere, Goens) would go to town against any collection of 7 guys who Carmody has signed over his 3.5 years. Ralph Willard was superior to Bill Carmody as a coach, recruiter, player developer, and program manager. End. Would you indulge us all on a little ranking exercise? You're the coach in this case, not Ralph or Bill Carmody. You're staring a team. so this is not a matter of what the current team needs or what any other team needs. How would you rank Ralph's 7 and the 6 current Holy Cross sophomores 1 thru 13. So, #1 is, in your opinion, the best or most desired of the 13 players (Ralph's 7 plus Grandison, Green, Butler, Faw, Niego, Copeland) , #2 is the second most desired, and so forth. Despite knowing that the haters will disagree no matter what this list says, I will indulge: 1=Evans 2=Brown 3=Cavataio 4=Green 5=Grandison 6=Beans 7=Stevens 8=Niego 9=Obeysekere 10=Faw 11=Butler 12=Goens 13=Copeland Note: "My" team would, in fact, be interested in defense and rebounding.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 25, 2019 14:06:30 GMT -5
Would you indulge us all on a little ranking exercise? You're the coach in this case, not Ralph or Bill Carmody. You're staring a team. so this is not a matter of what the current team needs or what any other team needs. How would you rank Ralph's 7 and the 6 current Holy Cross sophomores 1 thru 13. So, #1 is, in your opinion, the best or most desired of the 13 players (Ralph's 7 plus Grandison, Green, Butler, Faw, Niego, Copeland) , #2 is the second most desired, and so forth. Despite knowing that the haters will disagree no matter what this list says, I will indulge: 1=Evans - 90.7 2=Brown - 114.1 3=Cavataio - 107.0 4=Green - 107.0 5=Grandisonn - 108.3 6=Beans - 92.6 (Jr season as he missed his Soph) 7=Stevens - 100.7 8=Niego - 118.0 9=Obeysekere - 93.9 10=Faw - 97.3 11=Butler - 96.4 12=Goens - 77.3 13=Copeland - 80.8 Note: "My" team would, in fact, be interested in defense and rebounding. Note that for the RW players, I listed their rating from when they were sophomores for equal comparison. I placed the Pomeroy ORtg next to each player.
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Post by realism on Jan 25, 2019 14:21:02 GMT -5
Keep the coach and get rid of the people in admissions...Get a broader pool of athletes who can compete at a higher level...That small pool of recruit-able students makes getting those prime time players sooo much tougher... I'd be curious to see how many players from other PL teams could get in to HC.....The great majority could get into HC. And the great majority of HC players could get into other PL schools. Every PL school, except maybe Lehigh, occasionally has its issues with admissions. There is nothing unique about the HC situation. Ridiculous HC has close to the lowest A.I. in the P.L.( ask someone to explain that to you )
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 25, 2019 15:33:48 GMT -5
Milan Brown through 118 games: 53-65 (32-28 in PL regular season)
Bill Carmody through 118 games: 53-65 (24-37 in PL regular season)
At this point in Milan's tenure at HC, many were calling for him to be fired -- justifiably so.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 25, 2019 15:46:12 GMT -5
Do the numbers above include post season?
Milan Brown 2-5 in PL tournament and 1-1 in postseason tournament
Bill Carmody 5-2 in PL tournament and 1-1 in NCAA tournament
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 25, 2019 15:47:34 GMT -5
Do the numbers above include post season? Milan Brown 2-5 in PL tournament and 1-1 in postseason tournament Bill Carmody 5-2 in PL tournament and 1-1 in NCAA tournament Yes, inclusive of postseason. That run in Carmody's first season certainly was special.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 25, 2019 16:01:50 GMT -5
Milan Brown through 118 games: 53-65 (32-28 in PL regular season) Bill Carmody through 118 games: 53-65 (24-37 in PL regular season) At this point in Milan's tenure at HC, many were calling for him to be fired -- justifiably so. Truly remarkable. Carmody at NW: 192-220 (.476) Carmody at HC: 53-65 (.449) Carmody at NW+HC: 245-285 (.462) Milan at THE MOUNT: 95-120 (.442) Milan at HC: 69-83 (.454) Milan at MOUNT+HC: 164-203 (.447) So over a 100 game sample, Carm's NW+HC teams would win 1.5 more games than Milan's MOUNT+HC teams. Two very different styles producing two sets of very similar results.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 25, 2019 16:36:23 GMT -5
If we were to be honest and anywhere approaching objectivity, if not for the PL tournament championship run, I would bet there would be a lot more than the usual suspects calling for Carmody's head as indeed his record is sub-par and well below expectations of any but the most loyal fans.
But, like Tom Gilmore, both have won championships, albeit just one each, which is more than their predecessors and give them a little more breathing room. Speaking for myself and probably others here if you look back on earlier posts before the season started, this was the year that all the pieces had to fall together. There's still time but the margin for doing so is closing rapidly.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 25, 2019 16:45:29 GMT -5
I believe that before the season began I stated that I wanted to be in the PL final this year and to win it next season.
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Post by bison137 on Jan 25, 2019 18:33:22 GMT -5
The great majority could get into HC. And the great majority of HC players could get into other PL schools. Every PL school, except maybe Lehigh, occasionally has its issues with admissions. There is nothing unique about the HC situation. Ridiculous HC has close to the lowest A.I. in the P.L.( ask someone to explain that to you ) I know tha AI very well. So you’re saying HC is admitting players with lesser academic rankings than the other PL schools?
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Post by jkh67 on Jan 25, 2019 20:30:50 GMT -5
Milan Brown through 118 games: 53-65 (32-28 in PL regular season) Bill Carmody through 118 games: 53-65 (24-37 in PL regular season) At this point in Milan's tenure at HC, many were calling for him to be fired -- justifiably so. Truly remarkable. Carmody at NW: 192-220 (.476) Carmody at HC: 53-65 (.449) Carmody at NW+HC: 245-285 (.462) Milan at THE MOUNT: 95-120 (.442) Milan at HC: 69-83 (.454) Milan at MOUNT+HC: 164-203 (.447) So over a 100 game sample, Carm's NW+HC teams would win 1.5 more games than Milan's MOUNT+HC teams. Two very different styles producing two sets of very similar results. The principal problem is really very simple. We just don't get the on court talent needed to succeed. There are no doubt a number of reasons why we don't. But, until we solve that one, we are highly likely to see more of the same. We need a young coach who's both good at the Xs and Os and who can relate well to today's high school athletes. Carmody is clearly not that guy.
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Post by trimster on Jan 25, 2019 20:52:34 GMT -5
Do the numbers above include post season? Milan Brown 2-5 in PL tournament and 1-1 in postseason tournament Bill Carmody 5-2 in PL tournament and 1-1 in NCAA tournament Could we please stop with the nonsense that a win over a weak Southern team in a play in game qualifies as an NCAA tournament victory. HC hasn't won an NCAA game since the early 1950's.
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Post by realism on Jan 25, 2019 21:06:14 GMT -5
Ridiculous HC has close to the lowest A.I. in the P.L.( ask someone to explain that to you ) I know tha AI very well. So you’re saying HC is admitting players with lesser academic rankings than the other PL schools? Bison 137, this wasn't addressed to you. It was addressed at DiMarz's flippant statement. There's not much credibility behind his statement. In contrast, I've followed your posts over the years. And I think you kinow your stuff and present it professionally. I would say your posts are objectively presented, even when you represent an issue related to Bucknell.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 25, 2019 21:18:10 GMT -5
Do the numbers above include post season? Milan Brown 2-5 in PL tournament and 1-1 in postseason tournament Bill Carmody 5-2 in PL tournament and 1-1 in NCAA tournament Could we please stop with the nonsense that a win over a weak Southern team in a play in game qualifies as an NCAA tournament victory. HC hasn't won an NCAA game since the early 1950's. Okay, let's agree: you call it nonsense and I'll call it a NCAA tournament win.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jan 25, 2019 22:53:30 GMT -5
Carmody's NCAA win over Southern is about as major an accomplishment as Milan Browns "Top 25 win" over Harvard in 2014.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 25, 2019 23:03:00 GMT -5
Losses to Kentucky, Kansas, and Marquette were better showings and more satisfying than a win over Southern and 40 point loss to Oregon.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 25, 2019 23:27:10 GMT -5
Well, I was at the loss to Marquette (bad call on goal tending) and at the win over Southern and I enjoyed the win a lot more than the loss.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jan 26, 2019 5:10:22 GMT -5
Does it really matter?
I'm not sure about this young, energy thing either. Lots of coaches in their 60's and above doing pretty well. I'm also not sure I'm up for one of those "his passion" vs "his antics" debates again.......
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Post by trimster on Jan 26, 2019 7:57:03 GMT -5
Carmody's NCAA win over Southern is about as major an accomplishment as Milan Browns "Top 25 win" over Harvard in 2014. I’ll take the Harvard win. I remember it well and thought it was a major accomplishment. Southern win, not so much.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jan 26, 2019 8:51:16 GMT -5
Well, I was at the loss to Marquette (bad call on goal tending) and at the win over Southern and I enjoyed the win a lot more than the loss. The entire "5 games in March" post-season run in 2016 was easily the most fun I've had following HC basketball to include the 2007 Patriot League Championship and NCAA appearance and the BC win at DCU in 2011. I was in attendance for the PL semis and finals Carm's first year and it was absolutely exhilarating. Equally enjoyed the Southern game. Oregon -- not so much. By the time the bartender figured out what channel TruTV was, it was 11-1 already!
But beating Southern was not a major accomplishment. Bucknell beating Kansas was. Vermont beating Syracuse was. The laundry list of schools that have won NCAA play-in games is long and unimpressive but everyone knew that already.
You know who else won an NCAA tournament game? Wait for it.....MILAN BROWN.
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Post by lou on Jan 26, 2019 9:29:42 GMT -5
Well I'm sure glad we beat Southern. They were a pretty good team as I recall. Please no stats on how un-good they were...
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