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Post by alum on Jan 31, 2019 7:55:17 GMT -5
1. While I find aspects of the play by both AB and PB maddening at times, they are both willing to try and put the team on their back when it is needed. I am not going to complain about them.
2. JF had a rough night. It is a team game and he cannot succeed offensively unless the three point shooters stretch the defense.
3. As we know, the PO also cannot work if the defense is not forced to defend the three. BU got out on our shooters early and when they did not make any, they were able to clog the middle some.
4. MZ played 12 minutes but did not appear to be an option in the offense. He only took one shot (as the announcer noted, it looked like a set shot) and had two turnovers and one assist. KC was only slightly more involved. In a game going like this one was, BC ought to make it clear to them that they should step up without fear of being replaced for a missed shot.
5. I think that BC was right. If we stayed within 10 rebounds we probably would have won. Sadly, we weren't even close.
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Post by alum on Jan 31, 2019 8:01:41 GMT -5
This program needs to take a step back and do some searching for a new coach. Start now and look for a former player. Memphis Penny St Johns Mullin Georgetown Ewing All three are leading successful programs. Get somebody that played here that knows what it's like and knows what it takes to win. We need someone who knows how to COACH, and can develop a scheme that will make our whole greater than the sum of our parts.The last three coaches we’ve had were not close to capable of doing this. Serious question--How much are you willing to pay to get a coach. BC makes around $300,000
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billy72
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 95
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Post by billy72 on Jan 31, 2019 8:07:32 GMT -5
Carmody doesn’t deserve to return next season. Time for a fresh start !
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Post by timholycross on Jan 31, 2019 8:09:50 GMT -5
Rodney Baker '74 is a scout for the 76ers. He's 66 years old with a career D1 coaching record below 500. Sound familiar? At the college level I can't think of an alum who's an active head coach or assistant. I'm sure there is one, let us know who that is, and we can discuss his pros and cons. I can see career skills, etc. making an alum desirable as an AD, perhaps. Not an ex player who's never put in the dirty work as a coach. Reminds me of BC faithful continually touting Doug Flutie as coming back as head football coach. And our posters, even the ones I don't like that much, are smartah than that! RJ Evans is currently an assistant at UNC-Asheville, after having previously worked at Texas and Louisville. Torey Thomas would be another that comes to mind if he ends his playing career and wants to get into coaching. Thanks for the RJ reminder. Yes, he's a viable candidate to be a head coach someplace. Thomas is not. When HC starts doing things like that time to start not paying attention.
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Post by timholycross on Jan 31, 2019 8:10:49 GMT -5
Carmody doesn’t deserve to return next season. Time for a fresh start ! You got the $ to pay him off? Hate him or not, doubt that HC is in the buyout business any more. Better hope he's decided he's through with coaching.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 31, 2019 8:12:26 GMT -5
We need someone who knows how to COACH, and can develop a scheme that will make our whole greater than the sum of our parts.The last three coaches we’ve had were not close to capable of doing this. Serious question--How much are you willing to pay to get a coach. BC makes around $300,000 Not about money as much as it’s about a competent Athletic Director bringing in someone who knows how to scheme and is a good fit for the job. Bill Carmody was a volunteer assistant coach at Fairfield and had no other offers. The fact that HC is paying him $300k speaks more to the incompetent AD who hired him that what his actual market worth was. We got raked over the coals. Nathan Davis is just one example of a guy who was available to be hired when we hired Carmody, and who would have been a “cheaper” option in terms of $$$. Money is not the issue.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 31, 2019 8:26:50 GMT -5
I have no objection to HC paying Carmody under $300K (let's not get total compensation mixed up with base pay - he was south of $300K in salary, who includes benefits when they talk about their salary?). My very minor objection was the length of the contract. With 20/20 hindsight, Nate should have offered him a 3 year contract based on his not having been currently employed and his age with perhaps an incentive to extend his contract the additional 2 years depending on how/if he turned the program around. Having won the PL tournament his first year, an extension might have made my proposal academic.
He's not getting paid an outlandish salary. In fact, he is making about +/- what Milan was making and I think we can all agree his record at Princeton and even what he did at Northwestern was a lot better resume than what Milan had.
To answer an earlier question, a replacement whenever Carmody decides to pack it in - which my gut says will be sooner than later - would be for a bonafide winning coach would be $500K base salary. The extra $200 a year would be a worthy investment. But that kind of salary doesn't go to a Joe Kennedy or any of Carmody's assistants and not another Milan or Sean. And there needs to be a cheap buy-out if it turns out to be a guy who wants to be "R.I.P." (retired in place) like SK was.
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Post by alum on Jan 31, 2019 8:29:42 GMT -5
Serious question--How much are you willing to pay to get a coach. BC makes around $300,000 Not about money as much as it’s about a competent Athletic Director bringing in someone who knows how to scheme and is a good fit for the job. Bill Carmody was a volunteer assistant coach at Fairfield and had no other offers. The fact that HC is paying him $300k speaks more to the incompetent AD who hired him that what his actual market worth was. We got raked over the coals. Nathan Davis is just one example of a guy who was available to be hired when we hired Carmody, and who would have been a “cheaper” option in terms of $$$. Money is not the issue. You are right, Nathan Davis would have been a good choice and it looks like Bucknell pays him less than HC pays Carmody. I don't know for sure that he was available as I think he was waiting for Paulsen to leave so he could return to Bucknell but I would hope that he was considered when BC was hired. All that said, money is still an issue. Offering more money means that more people will consider the job. Oh, and NP finished the job on Luth. Having a second court will be a plus the next time around. No matter how little you think of him, he gets credit for pushing that project across the finish line.
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Post by bison137 on Jan 31, 2019 8:43:54 GMT -5
Not about money as much as it’s about a competent Athletic Director bringing in someone who knows how to scheme and is a good fit for the job. Bill Carmody was a volunteer assistant coach at Fairfield and had no other offers. The fact that HC is paying him $300k speaks more to the incompetent AD who hired him that what his actual market worth was. We got raked over the coals. Nathan Davis is just one example of a guy who was available to be hired when we hired Carmody, and who would have been a “cheaper” option in terms of $$$. Money is not the issue. You are right, Nathan Davis would have been a good choice and it looks like Bucknell pays him less than HC pays Carmody. I don't know for sure that he was available as I think he was waiting for Paulsen to leave so he could return to Bucknell but I would hope that he was considered when BC was hired. All that said, money is still an issue. Offering more money means that more people will consider the job. Oh, and NP finished the job on Luth. Having a second court will be a plus the next time around. No matter how little you think of him, he gets credit for pushing that project across the finish line. I don't think there's any question that Davis would have been available for the right job. At that time, Paulsen was very happy at Bucknell and his family loved Lewisburg, which is a great place to raise kids. He had already turned down the chance to talk to some "higher" level teams. George Mason approached him after a couple other candidates fell through and overwhelmed him with a 5-year $3.5M contract plus extras and possible bonus. Also offered him a chance to almost double his assistants' salaries. He ended up taking it, but really hadn't had any plans to leave that year. As for Davis, he had been successful at D3 Randolph-Macon (as had all their previous coaches), but a lot of teams don't want to take a chance on a D3 coach. And there is no guarantee that Bucknell was going to hire him if the day ever came when Paulsen left. First, there was a major coaching search. They interviewed a large number of candidates, as opposed to fast-tracking Davis. Ultimately there were reportedly two other finalists: Jamion Christian, the current Siena Head Coach who might have ended up better than Davis, and Scott Pera, then the Associate Head Coach at Rice and now their Head Coach.
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Post by renospalding on Jan 31, 2019 8:56:42 GMT -5
I am not typically a poster on this site but I am a loyal HC fan and a proud alum and I can’t sit here reading the negativity over the past several weeks and not have a voice.
First you people should realize as I know some of you do that this site is well known by recruits, commits, AAU Coaches, current players, coaches, and families. This is such negative publicity for HC. It is talked about and often times laughed at. You may call it entertainment, a good way to pass time but I call it a disgusting display of negativity towards these young men and coaches who I am pretty sure are NOT trying to lose!
Second, What amazes me is that some of you are horrifically critical of these young men and coaches that are busting their tails year round and that is NOT because they want to lose. They certainly don’t need a bunch of men hiding behind keyboards bashing our current players and coaches. These boys are sons of parents, players of former coaches that worked hard to get where they are, These coaches have wives and kids and fiancés! So to be so rude, so ignorant, so harsh, and so negative you should feel very ashamed! Take it someplace else instead of splashing the negativity so publicly! How about just choose to say nothing at all! Imagine that concept!
Third I watch some of you at these games talking to alumni, fans, and parents and you should feel really great about yourselves knowing you will go home and post about the coaches and the sons of the parents you just schmoozed! It is a complete joke! You all have favorite players and some of you clearly have a few players you strongly dislike! That is known so you don’t need to continually bash these boys efforts on a nightly basis. We get it you don’t like them but be a grown adult, act like a grown adult, quit acting like a child, and either support them or quit watching them and quit going to games. If it makes you that miserable find something else to do with your time.
Fourth, I am pretty sure none of you will be involved with hiring the next coach so quit wasting your time analyzing who would be a good hire if and when CBC leaves.
Finally, find a better way to pass your time! Either support our HC Basketball team or go find a new team to support! It is amazing how ignorant some of you really are and how little knowledge you really have.
Unlike all of you, I am officially done wasting my time with this site as you all did me in! I spoke my peace! GO CROSS!
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Post by trimster on Jan 31, 2019 9:42:44 GMT -5
Welcome to the forum. You raise some very good points and I hope you stick around to bring some balance to the proceedings. I find today's talk about coaching candidates to be in poor taste. We have a coach in place who I suspect is just as unhappy with the recent won/loss record as the most ardent posters here are and I am quite sure he is doing everything he can to get the train back on the track. From an athletic standpoint, I have never been a fan of the Patriot League but As an alum, I have a great deal of respect for the the outstanding young men and women who represent Holy Cross as student athletes. I wouldn't want Holy Cross to participate in the semi professional atmosphere so many high major programs do.
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Post by Tom on Jan 31, 2019 9:45:25 GMT -5
- Having a seven man rotation is a little light. It becomes horrible when two guys - both of them big guys - are hurt. Worse than horrible when the other big guy is in foul trouble
- With the thin bench, when someone goes down, if you hope to win, someone else needs to step up. Not a lot of guys playing better than their average made for a bad loss
- On a related note, there was a period when Grandison was the tallest Crusader on the court. At the end, Copeland was the tallest Crusader on the court
- On the flip side, there was a period with both Green and Benzan were on the bench. It was not a pretty portion of the game. Even though this offense doesn't have "point guard", I don't remember having neither guy on the court at any point when both were available
- At times last night, I questioned if certain players were in the doghouse.
- For the last couple of years, this teams has had poor shot clock awareness. At games I attend, I have taken on the job of starting the countdown when it gets low. Not an option last night
- Some people make fun of the Turnpike Trophy. I am not one of them, I'm just totally apathetic about the thing. Apparently BU does care about it. Great call having "club sport night" for BU. In a battle of two teams in the bottom half of the league, the house was rocking all night. Sad to say, best college game atmosphere I've seen in a while
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Post by purplehaze on Jan 31, 2019 9:55:04 GMT -5
reno and trimster (and anyone else who will listen) - you are 100 pct correct ! - time to stop griping and get behind these players and coaches for the 2nd half of the league schedule.
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Post by Ignutz on Jan 31, 2019 10:02:58 GMT -5
I am not typically a poster on this site but I am a loyal HC fan and a proud alum and I can’t sit here reading the negativity over the past several weeks and not have a voice. First you people should realize as I know some of you do that this site is well known by recruits, commits, AAU Coaches, current players, coaches, and families. This is such negative publicity for HC. It is talked about and often times laughed at. You may call it entertainment, a good way to pass time but I call it a disgusting display of negativity towards these young men and coaches who I am pretty sure are NOT trying to lose! Second, What amazes me is that some of you are horrifically critical of these young men and coaches that are busting their tails year round and that is NOT because they want to lose. They certainly don’t need a bunch of men hiding behind keyboards bashing our current players and coaches. These boys are sons of parents, players of former coaches that worked hard to get where they are, These coaches have wives and kids and fiancés! So to be so rude, so ignorant, so harsh, and so negative you should feel very ashamed! Take it someplace else instead of splashing the negativity so publicly! How about just choose to say nothing at all! Imagine that concept! Third I watch some of you at these games talking to alumni, fans, and parents and you should feel really great about yourselves knowing you will go home and post about the coaches and the sons of the parents you just schmoozed! It is a complete joke! You all have favorite players and some of you clearly have a few players you strongly dislike! That is known so you don’t need to continually bash these boys efforts on a nightly basis. We get it you don’t like them but be a grown adult, act like a grown adult, quit acting like a child, and either support them or quit watching them and quit going to games. If it makes you that miserable find something else to do with your time. Fourth, I am pretty sure none of you will be involved with hiring the next coach so quit wasting your time analyzing who would be a good hire if and when CBC leaves. Finally, find a better way to pass your time! Either support our HC Basketball team or go find a new team to support! It is amazing how ignorant some of you really are and how little knowledge you really have. Unlike all of you, I am officially done wasting my time with this site as you all did me in! I spoke my peace! GO CROSS! Well said, renospalding. I agree with everything you said.
Of course we'll get frustrated when we lose, but please recall a few things: - Carmody's arrival in 2015 was very late in the recruiting season, and he grabbed what was available - today's junior class (only CLS remains) - Carmody's next recruiting class, our sophs, are good and getting better, but still young. As a group, their upside remains high. - Carmody was hampered re: the current freshman class by i.) not knowing if he had MP's spot available, and ii.) not knowing the fate of the now-departed members of last year's team. - The current commits appear to be very solid, but they are actually only the second class to be recruited without Carmody being at least somewhat handcuffed.
- Lastly, and most importantly, we've played since late December (all of our PL games and 12 of our total 22), without CN, and essentially each of our last three games without MF. How do you think we'd do against the rest of the PL if the opposition didn't have two of their top seven players? We all know that injuries play into every team's ability to compete, but with very thin upper-classmen ranks, a very sophomore-centered team, and two important contributors on the shelf, are we really surprised? How would the mid-70s teams have fared if you couldn't bring Doran or O'Connor or Beckenbach into the game to spell Vicens or Potter or McAuley?
When MF was healthy, we routed the PL's top team in the first half before falling in OT. Absent our second half comeback after a significant swoon, I'd say our guys may have been gassed, but they showed some real grit, and these kids DO NOT QUIT, It certainly looks like we'll be without CN the rest of the way, so if MF comes back soon, and the rest of the lads stay healthy, I'm hoping that we can be competitive on the back nine.
On any given night..................
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 31, 2019 10:14:42 GMT -5
renospalding, welcome to Crossports posting. I agree that the few who vent sometimes (frequently) forget who is reading what they post. I appreciate that your passionate post did not use universals as some posters often do (i.e. "no one cares about HC basketball"). To say last night's game was a disappointment would be an understatement. Are injuries having an impact on this young team? Certainly. That can be called an "excuse" but it is not. It is simply a factor that currently is impacting team play. I am a fan of Holy Cross and I try to find silver linings behind clouds, but - whatever the outcome - I am still a fan of this team and certainly of its players and coaches. In college hoops, they ARE Holy Cross. Thanks for your post. Please stick around. Sanity can always use another supporter.
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Post by thecrossisback on Jan 31, 2019 10:14:54 GMT -5
I am not typically a poster on this site but I am a loyal HC fan and a proud alum and I can’t sit here reading the negativity over the past several weeks and not have a voice. First you people should realize as I know some of you do that this site is well known by recruits, commits, AAU Coaches, current players, coaches, and families. This is such negative publicity for HC. It is talked about and often times laughed at. You may call it entertainment, a good way to pass time but I call it a disgusting display of negativity towards these young men and coaches who I am pretty sure are NOT trying to lose! Second, What amazes me is that some of you are horrifically critical of these young men and coaches that are busting their tails year round and that is NOT because they want to lose. They certainly don’t need a bunch of men hiding behind keyboards bashing our current players and coaches. These boys are sons of parents, players of former coaches that worked hard to get where they are, These coaches have wives and kids and fiancés! So to be so rude, so ignorant, so harsh, and so negative you should feel very ashamed! Take it someplace else instead of splashing the negativity so publicly! How about just choose to say nothing at all! Imagine that concept! Third I watch some of you at these games talking to alumni, fans, and parents and you should feel really great about yourselves knowing you will go home and post about the coaches and the sons of the parents you just schmoozed! It is a complete joke! You all have favorite players and some of you clearly have a few players you strongly dislike! That is known so you don’t need to continually bash these boys efforts on a nightly basis. We get it you don’t like them but be a grown adult, act like a grown adult, quit acting like a child, and either support them or quit watching them and quit going to games. If it makes you that miserable find something else to do with your time. Fourth, I am pretty sure none of you will be involved with hiring the next coach so quit wasting your time analyzing who would be a good hire if and when CBC leaves. Finally, find a better way to pass your time! Either support our HC Basketball team or go find a new team to support! It is amazing how ignorant some of you really are and how little knowledge you really have. Unlike all of you, I am officially done wasting my time with this site as you all did me in! I spoke my peace! GO CROSS! While some of this is true. The fact you can't be angry about a team that keeps losing winnable games. Why can't you point out mistakes made by players and coaches? What do you think other teams fans do? Nobody is criticizing the players not working hard, they are criticizing their play. We all still support the team and the players or we would not be on this board. The notion that we have to be ok with loosing is asinine.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 31, 2019 10:15:15 GMT -5
Regarding the thin bench, injuries, players not getting a breather, here is how we have done in the first half and second half/OT (wearing down?) in our PL games
Loyola= +7/E [HC outscored Loyola by 7 in the 1st half and the teams scored same number of points in the 2nd half] Navy= 0/(2) Lehigh= +12/(17) Lafayette= +10/(2) Bucknell= (16)/+1 Loyola= +2/(4) Army= (7)/(12) Navy= (1)/+7 Boston U= (4)/(10)
So in 9 games we have had a better first half than second half in 7 of the games. No doubt some will suggest that the reason for this is that opposing coaches go into the locker room and outcoach Bill Carmody by making the proper adjustments for second half play. It could also just be randomness--a significant factor in any game. Still, I think it could also be indicative of the depth & overwork issue and we may want to keep an eye on this.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 31, 2019 10:21:42 GMT -5
Now through the halfway point in PL play of his 4th year, Carmody's teams are 8-24 (.250) in PL regular season road games.
Those 8 wins are against teams with an average PL rank of 7.5, and an average PL winning% of .361.
He has yet to win a regular season road game against a team ranked in the top 4 (0-14), and has won only one game against a team in the top 5 (1-15).
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 31, 2019 10:36:16 GMT -5
Now through the halfway point in PL play of his 4th year, Carmody's teams are 8-24 (.250) in PL regular season road games. Those 8 wins are against teams with an average PL rank of 7.5, and an average PL winning% of .361. He has yet to win a regular season road game against a team ranked in the top 4 ( 0-14), and has won only one game against a team in the top 5 ( 1-15). Go easy with these stats, Bring Back. Some will construe them as horrifically critical and mean.
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Post by classof83 on Jan 31, 2019 10:40:54 GMT -5
I think wearing down is part of it, but when you have a thin bench you essentially also have fewer fouls to give.
Once a kid gets 3 fouls it changes how a player plays defense. The starters know they need to stay on the floor if they have any chance of winning. - I see it in JF - yes he had a few blocks last night - but there were times you could see him back off because he didn't want to get another foul. As Tom pointed out once JF fouled out, JG was the tallest player on the floor for HC. At that point, HC had no chance. Verbeek just is not ready to fill those minutes.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 31, 2019 11:04:34 GMT -5
Now through the halfway point in PL play of his 4th year, Carmody's teams are 8-24 (.250) in PL regular season road games. Those 8 wins are against teams with an average PL rank of 7.5, and an average PL winning% of .361. He has yet to win a regular season road game against a team ranked in the top 4 ( 0-14), and has won only one game against a team in the top 5 ( 1-15). To complete these stats with home games included: vs top 4: 4-24 ( .143) vs top 5: 6-27 ( .182) vs top 6: 9-29 ( .237)
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Post by possum on Jan 31, 2019 11:14:31 GMT -5
Reno I don't know why there should even be a message board if it's not fair to critique player or coach performance. I don't think anyone is disparaging or questioning the players character but they are getting a free ride to play basketball so I think assessing their shortcomings or attributes as a basketball player is fair game. As far as the coach is concerned questioning his strategy, recruiting and overall performance is certainly fair game. He's getting paid a lot of money and if in the opinion of some is not getting the job done it's certainly reasonable for those folks to question whether he should be Ignutz your comments on Carmody's recruiting are a little off. In 2015 he was hired and lost a couple of recruits so he was under the gun and brought in Charles and Zignorski. The next year he was on board for the full recruiting season and brought in a disastrous class. As you say the current sophomore class is fine. Last year he was not forced to use the scholarships on players in late April he could have held off and used them at a later date when a much larger pool of players were available.
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Post by renospalding on Jan 31, 2019 12:00:38 GMT -5
Apparently a few of you, always negative posters, missed my point.... Nobody likes to lose and nobody is okay with losing and yes it is okay and even expected to be DISAPPOINTED with a loss especially some of the ones we should have won! Disappointed not angry and hostile and just rude! I’m pretty sure if CBC is making his living as a college coach he certainly isn’t happy either!
Being okay with losing was not my point because all the coaches and players you are mentioning negatively are not okay with losing I am sure!
It is in losing that many of you “BASH” individual players and CBC unnecessarily harsh when this is a PUBLIC forum that is open to ANYONE to read! If all you did was “critique” or give “constructive criticism” that would be one thing but what some of you people do is very critically BASH individual players by initials! As if a recruit, coach, commit, player, or family member can’t figure out who you are referring to! It crosses the line and gives our HC family a very bad name! I’m protective of my alma mater and am disgraced by some of the posters twisted frames of mind!
Heck even when this team wins a few of you still find many faults and continue to BASH these young adults that will also someday be alumni of HC!
We have faced some misfortunes this season that have certainly had an impact over the last several weeks. Two key contributors are out which impacts these young men, the team dynamics, their wear and tear on their bodies, etc.
Just like you don’t get to pick the coach you don’t get to pick the players but I can tell you this - seeing the negativity on this board surely isn’t helping anyone. This team needs supportive fans and supportive alumni. Get on board or get out of the way!
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 31, 2019 12:17:34 GMT -5
reno: How 'bout this -- if you can find another message board in the country that meets the following criteria, I will follow your orders:
1) Team has four consecutive seasons below .500 and seven seasons below .500 in the last nine years 2) Fans still actively following and posting about the team 3) No negativity from those fans that are still following/talking about the team
Until then, I say the remaining alums/fans/followers of this program can talk about whatever the hell they want.
This board is far more tame and far more active than any other program that has had seven losing seasons in the last nine years.
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Post by Ignutz on Jan 31, 2019 12:36:13 GMT -5
Apparently a few of you, always negative posters, missed my point.... Nobody likes to lose and nobody is okay with losing and yes it is okay and even expected to be DISAPPOINTED with a loss especially some of the ones we should have won! Disappointed not angry and hostile and just rude! I’m pretty sure if CBC is making his living as a college coach he certainly isn’t happy either! Being okay with losing was not my point because all the coaches and players you are mentioning negatively are not okay with losing I am sure! It is in losing that many of you “BASH” individual players and CBC unnecessarily harsh when this is a PUBLIC forum that is open to ANYONE to read! If all you did was “critique” or give “constructive criticism” that would be one thing but what some of you people do is very critically BASH individual players by initials! As if a recruit, coach, commit, player, or family member can’t figure out who you are referring to! It crosses the line and gives our HC family a very bad name! I’m protective of my alma mater and am disgraced by some of the posters twisted frames of mind! Heck even when this team wins a few of you still find many faults and continue to BASH these young adults that will also someday be alumni of HC! We have faced some misfortunes this season that have certainly had an impact over the last several weeks. Two key contributors are out which impacts these young men, the team dynamics, their wear and tear on their bodies, etc. Just like you don’t get to pick the coach you don’t get to pick the players but I can tell you this - seeing the negativity on this board surely isn’t helping anyone. This team needs supportive fans and supportive alumni. Get on board or get out of the way! Again agreed. I’ll save my criticism of the players until I see AB not sacrificing himself at every turn, CG not being solid as a rock bringing the ball up the court, and everyone else not representing alma mater proudly.
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