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Post by td128 on Sept 1, 2019 8:15:03 GMT -5
Not having Dominic Cozier and Jack Bowler play certainly did not help but that's football. I expect them to be back next weekend and they should certainly help get the offense going.
Let's Win!!
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Post by gks on Sept 1, 2019 10:06:35 GMT -5
I think we can all agree scheduling two FBS teams this year is a scheduling disaster. Had we opened v a CAA team we would at least have an idea if our QB can get it done v our normal competition. Also, I think some/much of our play calling was influenced by the obvious need to grind out the clock v a decent FBS team. Finally, John Oliver's stat line, 4 rushes for a total of 8 yards, is not what I expected (again, it is sort of useless as a predictor to how productive he will be and how often his number will be called v our normal competition). I'll disagree. Would rather play Navy and Syracuse than St. Francis or Davidson. FBS are just part of the deal with a FCS scholarship team. It's up to the school to step up and be competitive. I want to see if my QB can stand up to the pressure of playing at Navy. The goal is to be a FCS playoff team. Just as much pressure there as there was yesterday.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 1, 2019 10:37:50 GMT -5
It is one thing to struggle defensively with the triple option when there is only one week of preparation, but Hc had nine whole months to instill defensive schemes for the first game of this season, and an abundance of time to look at game film. Other that BobC visiting Foxboro for a day, and hearing Billy B's maxims, I can't think of why one would defer of a perfect weather day, other than that's what Billy B. does most of the time. But Billy B also has the GOAT on the sidelines. Defer, and what happens? Navy drives down the field like a warm knife through butter. Now it could have been the only QB capable of running the scout team triple option, decamped for Monmouth (IIRC) so perhaps there were limited opportunities to practice against it. _____________________ Time of possession fourth quarter: Navy 12+ minutes, HC 2+ minutes. HC couldn't get out of Annapolis quick enough. With the game out-of-reach, I don't know why there was minimal substituting if only to give game experience to back-ups. ____________________ This is the bio page of the four new assistant coaches. goholycross.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=33100&ATCLID=211795635As the Romans would say, Res ipsa loquitur ____________________ It's not that FCS can't play with the 'big boys'. Northern Iowa took #21 Iowa State to three overtimes. JMU held West Virginia to an average of 1.4 yards per rush.
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Post by hcpride on Sept 1, 2019 10:56:30 GMT -5
I think we can all agree scheduling two FBS teams this year is a scheduling disaster. Had we opened v a CAA team we would at least have an idea if our QB can get it done v our normal competition. Also, I think some/much of our play calling was influenced by the obvious need to grind out the clock v a decent FBS team. Finally, John Oliver's stat line, 4 rushes for a total of 8 yards, is not what I expected (again, it is sort of useless as a predictor to how productive he will be and how often his number will be called v our normal competition). I'll disagree. Would rather play Navy and Syracuse than St. Francis or Davidson. FBS are just part of the deal with a FCS scholarship team. It's up to the school to step up and be competitive. I want to see if my QB can stand up to the pressure of playing at Navy. The goal is to be a FCS playoff team. Just as much pressure there as there was yesterday. No suggestion of replacing BOTH FBS games. Would much prefer seeing Villanova or Princeton to Syracuse (our second FBS game) later this year. I don't think anyone thinks the double-FBS move this year is a good idea. And I don't think we'll see a repeat of it going forward (for good and supported reasons). Sometimes when I hear arguments about why it is so good for HC to play an FBS game I think, "Why not 2 if it is so good?... Why not 3 if it is so good?" LOL I'd want to see if my QB can lead us to success this season ...no idea how the 2nd FBS game will illustrate that. Not even sure (is anyone?) what the first FBS showed us in that regard but that is another story.
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Post by 6sader7 on Sept 1, 2019 10:57:54 GMT -5
I think there have been a lot of valid points made re: our performance.
QB does have an arm, but he's shaky in the pocket and throws 75mph rockets to rb's who are maybe 7 yards out of the backfield.
I also thought that didn't stretch the field enough given the relative lack of strength and height of Navy db's.
We don't target the middle of the field enough in the passing game, esp given how much pressure Navy brought up the middle.
I do not think playing this game or Syracuse is a mistake - This stuff really does help with recruiting - I can't imagine how exciting it was for those guys to see that flyover with the cannons going off etc...Just being associated with these teams helps to bring validation to HC when recruiting, win or lose.
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Post by hcpride on Sept 1, 2019 11:03:59 GMT -5
/\/\ "I do not think playing this game or Syracuse is a mistake - This stuff really does help with recruiting - I can't imagine how exciting it was for those guys to see that flyover with the cannons going off etc...Just being associated with these teams helps to bring validation to HC when recruiting, win or lose." (emphasis added)
But is it a mistake to play both games in one season?
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Post by td128 on Sept 1, 2019 11:05:53 GMT -5
Not so sure the folks around here have a full and proper appreciation for the art of trying to prepare -- and execute -- defensive schemes for the offense that Navy runs. A school in South Bend that plays Navy regularly offered these insights in terms of preparing for Navy last year: "For Notre Dame football, Navy week is never a fun one and no one expects this game to be any different. The Midshipmen always seem to bring their best against the Irish, so what matchups do the Notre Dame defense need to focus on this week?
Brian Kelly said it himself: his defense definitely could have used another week of preparation to fully get ready for everything Navy will throw at them. You may say, “Well, this is Kelly’s 9th year playing Navy, shouldn’t he have their offense figured out by now?”
The answer is no. Ken Niumatalolo runs a ridiculously complex offense at Navy and it’s never something you really get used to."slapthesign.com/2018/10/26/key-defensive-matchups-vs-navy/
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Post by hc87 on Sept 1, 2019 11:10:52 GMT -5
I think these games were scheduled with the thought that we had "righted the ship" with scholarships back etc...it obviously hasn't played out that way...the next opportunity for a 2 FBS game season is probably 2024 which is the next 12 game season.
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Post by gks on Sept 1, 2019 11:15:42 GMT -5
Navy I believe was the 2nd game added. Both teams probably needed a 12th game and HC got a big fat check.
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Post by timholycross on Sept 1, 2019 11:36:32 GMT -5
A good question now is after getting this experience is CD a better bet than any other QB against UNH? Any other QB, other than Clifford, would have to experience their first game learning curve against a CAA program. Perhaps start CD against Murderer's Row the first four games and if he isn't making steady progress, try the first year guys against PL level competition. Maybe insert Clifford if CD consistently throws behind receivers on short passes. Not unless Clifford is head-and-shoulders better than the other guys- why would you invest any time in him, a senior, midway through the season? And from what I saw of him last year, he's not.
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Post by timholycross on Sept 1, 2019 11:44:42 GMT -5
It is one thing to struggle defensively with the triple option when there is only one week of preparation, but Hc had nine whole months to instill defensive schemes for the first game of this season, and an abundance of time to look at game film. Other that BobC visiting Foxboro for a day, and hearing Billy B's maxims, I can't think of why one would defer of a perfect weather day, other than that's what Billy B. does most of the time. But Billy B also has the GOAT on the sidelines. Defer, and what happens? Navy drives down the field like a warm knife through butter. Now it could have been the only QB capable of running the scout team triple option, decamped for Monmouth (IIRC) so perhaps there were limited opportunities to practice against it. _____________________ Time of possession fourth quarter: Navy 12+ minutes, HC 2+ minutes. HC couldn't get out of Annapolis quick enough. With the game out-of-reach, I don't know why there was minimal substituting if only to give game experience to back-ups. ____________________ This is the bio page of the four new assistant coaches. goholycross.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=33100&ATCLID=211795635As the Romans would say, Res ipsa loquitur ____________________ It's not that FCS can't play with the 'big boys'. Northern Iowa took #21 Iowa State to three overtimes. JMU held West Virginia to an average of 1.4 yards per rush. I've seen tough teams go up against Navy and not allow more than 3,4 yard gains...but the Mids are so relentless that they keep getting first downs and winding down the clock. I think a team is crazy giving them the ball first if they have any choice in the matter.
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 1, 2019 11:56:31 GMT -5
...especially when the first second half HC possession results in a turnover.
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Post by purplehaze on Sept 1, 2019 12:55:34 GMT -5
I know we were without Cozier and Bowler yesterday- does anyone know how we came out if this game physically? We need to be at 100 pct for UNH
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 13:37:19 GMT -5
Maybe I am a complete outlier in my thought process, but wouldn't beating Navy have much more of a long term impact/memory for players than winning the Patriot League Championship these days? Players are "sick", the offense has no urgency, we generally just run the clock out with little bs handoffs that serve no purpose, we punt down 38-7, we play seniors at QB that have no future, yada, yada, yada, yah.
We have these amazing opportunities and we treat them like a walk thru, setting the tone for the rest of the season. We didn't compete at Yankee Stadium, didn't compete against BC, didn't compete against Navy, and generally have this lack of urgency/spirit in taking advantage of these spotlights. We did do a good job with competing against UCONN and wish it was more of that than the latter.
I understand that these opponents are tough, I just don't see where we are headed if we aren't willing to compete at this level. Top tier FCS teams are just as good if not better than Navy.
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Post by hchoops on Sept 1, 2019 15:13:43 GMT -5
Nice crowd—28000+ But not the 40,000 at BC last year.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Sept 1, 2019 15:39:02 GMT -5
But my biggest gripe is with the Offensive Coordinator and this is the same crap from last year. Holy Cross gets the ball, 1st and 10. Shotgun formation, single set back, twins right split left. And, wait for it...... inside hand-off to the back, loss or no yardage...2nd and long.... first 5 possessions...of course, one other time we had a back run the outside route for a swing pass..... got blown up....Frankly, if we are going to lose to Navy - fine, I get it....but give the kids a chance. 2nd and long every time because we insist on the inside handoff on the RPO crap just takes the life out of everything....If you want to run the ball on first down, run it like you mean it.... tight end, QB under center, lead blocker.... Biggest key to future success -- get yardage on first down - once that happens, you get to dictate rather than the defense dictating...and every long down situation, Navy overloaded one side and came with blitzes.... could we roll the pocket away from the pressure and have a few quick crosses or rolls..... There is enough talent to run the PL -- and give the Ivies a battle... but do we have an OC that can get the offense into a position -- 2nd and long is a loser... My rant is over.... onto to UNH Chesney bringing Spread Em and Shred Em back as the OC for a second year doesn’t make any sense. It could not have been more clear last year that we needed to go in a different direction with the offense. Sure the QBs aren’t great, but a good (or even competent) OC should be able to make some schematic adjustments to still put the team in a position to be successful.
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Post by efg72 on Sept 1, 2019 16:05:56 GMT -5
I am a real outlier here and believe if we are going to recruit above where we sit today we need the schedule to be more interesting. Perhaps we should ask the players how they feel about the games and if it influenced their recruiting decision?
If we continue in the PL, and nothing suggests anything different, it would be great to have an Academy team, one or two other D1s ( UMass/UConn/Central or Eastern Michigan, Ohio U and a couple of Ivies and for the older alums every few years add a BC
If we truly want to win the PL or move to a new conference I think that is the better course
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 1, 2019 16:26:52 GMT -5
But my biggest gripe is with the Offensive Coordinator and this is the same crap from last year. Holy Cross gets the ball, 1st and 10. Shotgun formation, single set back, twins right split left. And, wait for it...... inside hand-off to the back, loss or no yardage...2nd and long.... first 5 possessions...of course, one other time we had a back run the outside route for a swing pass..... got blown up....Frankly, if we are going to lose to Navy - fine, I get it....but give the kids a chance. 2nd and long every time because we insist on the inside handoff on the RPO crap just takes the life out of everything....If you want to run the ball on first down, run it like you mean it.... tight end, QB under center, lead blocker.... Biggest key to future success -- get yardage on first down - once that happens, you get to dictate rather than the defense dictating...and every long down situation, Navy overloaded one side and came with blitzes.... could we roll the pocket away from the pressure and have a few quick crosses or rolls..... There is enough talent to run the PL -- and give the Ivies a battle... but do we have an OC that can get the offense into a position -- 2nd and long is a loser... My rant is over.... onto to UNH Chesney bringing Spread Em and Shred Em back as the OC for a second year doesn’t make any sense. It could not have been more clear last year that we needed to go in a different direction with the offense. Sure the QBs aren’t great, but a good (or even competent) OC should be able to make some schematic adjustments to still put the team in a position to be successful. Aside from Mr. Spread 'em and shred 'em', the RB coach is a graduate on Endicott, and previously a RB coach at AIC, Susquehanna, and Stonehill. The pass game coordinator, WR coach played two years at Duquesne, and three years at Pitt (special teams). Walk-on at Pitt. He most recently coached at Columbia four years as WR coach and before that at Maine Maritime, Thiel, and Carnegie Mellon. These are the replacements for Ari Confessor and Anthony DiMichele. I think it is a fair question whether this offensive game coaching staff has the capacity to effect much change.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 16:48:37 GMT -5
But my biggest gripe is with the Offensive Coordinator and this is the same crap from last year. Holy Cross gets the ball, 1st and 10. Shotgun formation, single set back, twins right split left. And, wait for it...... inside hand-off to the back, loss or no yardage...2nd and long.... first 5 possessions...of course, one other time we had a back run the outside route for a swing pass..... got blown up....Frankly, if we are going to lose to Navy - fine, I get it....but give the kids a chance. 2nd and long every time because we insist on the inside handoff on the RPO crap just takes the life out of everything....If you want to run the ball on first down, run it like you mean it.... tight end, QB under center, lead blocker.... Biggest key to future success -- get yardage on first down - once that happens, you get to dictate rather than the defense dictating...and every long down situation, Navy overloaded one side and came with blitzes.... could we roll the pocket away from the pressure and have a few quick crosses or rolls..... There is enough talent to run the PL -- and give the Ivies a battle... but do we have an OC that can get the offense into a position -- 2nd and long is a loser... My rant is over.... onto to UNH Chesney bringing Spread Em and Shred Em back as the OC for a second year doesn’t make any sense. It could not have been more clear last year that we needed to go in a different direction with the offense. Sure the QBs aren’t great, but a good (or even competent) OC should be able to make some schematic adjustments to still put the team in a position to be successful. I've heard from multiple sources that Chesney is influencing game plan and offensive play calls (not the other way around). No need to replace the OC when they are simply a "yes" man. If anything, it provides a fall guy if things don't progress the way you want.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 16:58:30 GMT -5
I am a real outlier here and believe if we are going to recruit above where we sit today we need the schedule to be more interesting. Perhaps we should ask the players how they feel about the games and if it influenced their recruiting decision? I am all for scheduling FBS opponents, but you got to have administrators, coaches, and players that are competing to win the game. Football is one of the few things in our world that focuses on outcomes and we need to rethink how we are approaching these opportunities. Gilmore had his own faults, but do you think he would have accepted a key player to be out sick? Never saw it once.....ever. Competing against FBS opponents should be just as important as competing against PL opponents. We are building a brand with every one of these games and in all honesty, how many "good" Patriot League opponents are there this year? 1? We have to be thinking longer term if we want to elevate the program.
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Post by hc87 on Sept 1, 2019 17:14:26 GMT -5
Re: Navy game. Am I the only one who saw the big gap in speed and talent? Our execution was poor probably due in part to it being an earlyseason game against the pressure of a stronger opponent. Strategy and play calling did not cause our loss Re the teams of the '80's: Let's get real. HC was a scholarship team with a great coaching staff evidently aided by EBW '42 (Owner of the Redskins). We obliterated and humiliated our non-scholarship foes largely because of these advantages in talent and coaching. My Ivy friends Columbia, Harvard & Penn resented the roll up scores. Penn paid us back big time. Columbia has stopped playing against us. Our unfair advantage was pointed out to me by some former PL school grads and HC grads too. "HC was the little mouse that roared." Our unfair scholarship advantage was unsustainable if we were to continue to compete in the non-scholarship PL. We began to lose when we lost our unfair advantage and played these same schools on an even playing field. If we kept scholarships and dropped out of the PL, we would have returned to the prior years of being in a "no man's land" and losing to larger schools with more developed programs and more lax academic standards for their athletes. Thus, our scholarship opponents would have had the recruiting advantage over HC. Losses were sure to follow! For example: Does anyone credibly believe that HC would win more against larger CAA schools whose lower academic standards would provide them with a greater selection of recruits and better players? Get real. As I recall our decline in the '90's ( There were others, too.) started with former HC QB and former ND QB coach, Peter Vaas, who as head coach decided that after a decade of winning it was time for a change - new unis, different offense, etc. Well, the most significant change was from winning to losing. HC no longer was id'd as a winning program and in head to head competition for talent with our PL rivals we regularly lost. HC became a PL non-entity, an afterthought. Our academics were not the reason. Has anyone ever suggested the obvious possibility that some of these non-Catholic, secular schools with beautiful campuses and great academics may have been more attractive to more of the same recruits which HC was trying to land? Over the last 50+ years I have seen it all - the Good, the Bad and the Ugly. I have experienced the thrill of victory, The Bomb HC-BC,1966, the teams of the '80"s and the agony of defeat too often to mention. In my not humble opinion I think the ONLY way HC can succeed in building a competitive, winning program in all sports, and football, is to hire superior attractive coaches, preferably young, whom players are gung ho to play for. Our success rests almost entirely on our athletics administration and coaches, more so than with other secular or larger schools. Attract great coaches and success will come. LoveHC HC was regularly beating CAA schools like Delaware, UMass, William&Mary etc as well as Army in the 1980s....not just PL and Ivy schools.
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Post by efg72 on Sept 1, 2019 17:22:54 GMT -5
I am a real outlier here and believe if we are going to recruit above where we sit today we need the schedule to be more interesting. Perhaps we should ask the players how they feel about the games and if it influenced their recruiting decision? I am all for scheduling FBS opponents, but you got to have administrators, coaches, and players that are competing to win the game. Football is one of the few things in our world that focuses on outcomes and we need to rethink how we are approaching them. Competing against FBS opponents should be just as important as competing against PL opponents. We are building a brand with every one of these games and in all honesty, how many "good" Patriot League opponents are there this year? 1? I don’t disagree but I believe this staff used the last 8-9 moths working on how to build a winning program with the systems they want to run on both sides of the ball. Navy was not a factor in that decision but it was a game on the schedule. They stayed stuck to the schemes and tried to make them work for this game. Playing 2 LBs is no way to stop east west play and once you cheat to compensate you can’t handle north south right now our brand is playing those games and winning the PL 2-3 years from now that might change to meet the larger expectations As they say you need to crawl before you walk and walk before you run. last year we learned to move from phase 1 to phase 2–crawling to walking this year and and next will be walking to running then we sprint forward and have a program It is a process as hard as that is for us to accept as we want immediate gratification to pay for the sins of the past today we are not as good as we want to be, but clearly not as bad as most are suggesting It is never where you start but where you finish-and not in one season Perhaps we ought to see about raising money to pay our coaches at a Div 1 rate and get the skill set needed across the board— we currently have some very good assistants just not enough and if any are lacking, which i would not judge, then coach Chesney can make the call. Raising an additional $300 k targeted for football salaries should not be a problem
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 17:27:24 GMT -5
I am all for scheduling FBS opponents, but you got to have administrators, coaches, and players that are competing to win the game. Football is one of the few things in our world that focuses on outcomes and we need to rethink how we are approaching them. Competing against FBS opponents should be just as important as competing against PL opponents. We are building a brand with every one of these games and in all honesty, how many "good" Patriot League opponents are there this year? 1? I don’t disagree but I believe this staff used the last 8-9 moths working on how to build a winning program with the systems they want to run on both sides of the ball. Navy was not a factor in that decision but it was a game on the schedule. They stayed stuck to the schemes and tried to make them work for this game. Playing 2 LBs is no way to stop east west play and once you cheat to compensate you can’t handle north south right now our brand is playing those games and winning the PL 2-3 years from now that might change to meet the larger expectations As they say you need to crawl before you walk and walk before you run. last year we learned to move from phase 1 to phase 2–crawling to walking this year and and next will be walking to running then we sprint forward and have a program It is a process as hard as that is for us to accept as we want immediate gratification to pay for the sins of the past today we are not as good as we want to be, but clearly not as bad as most are suggesting It is never where you start but where you finish-and not in one season Perhaps we ought to see about raising money to pay our coaches at a Div 1 rate and get the skill set needed across the board— we currently have some very good assistants just not enough and if any are lacking, which i would not judge, then coach Chesney can make the call. Raising an additional $300 k targeted for football salaries should not be a problem I guess that 32 million dollar donation didn't impact salaries? The 1 billion dollar endowment we have? "Men and women for others"......
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Post by spenser on Sept 1, 2019 17:32:46 GMT -5
I am all for scheduling FBS opponents, but you got to have administrators, coaches, and players that are competing to win the game. Football is one of the few things in our world that focuses on outcomes and we need to rethink how we are approaching them. Competing against FBS opponents should be just as important as competing against PL opponents. We are building a brand with every one of these games and in all honesty, how many "good" Patriot League opponents are there this year? 1? I don’t disagree but I believe this staff used the last 8-9 moths working on how to build a winning program with the systems they want to run on both sides of the ball. Navy was not a factor in that decision but it was a game on the schedule. They stayed stuck to the schemes and tried to make them work for this game. Playing 2 LBs is no way to stop east west play and once you cheat to compensate you can’t handle north south right now our brand is playing those games and winning the PL 2-3 years from now that might change to meet the larger expectations As they say you need to crawl before you walk and walk before you run. last year we learned to move from phase 1 to phase 2–crawling to walking this year and and next will be walking to running then we sprint forward and have a program It is a process as hard as that is for us to accept as we want immediate gratification to pay for the sins of the past today we are not as good as we want to be, but clearly not as bad as most are suggesting It is never where you start but where you finish-and not in one season Perhaps we ought to see about raising money to pay our coaches at a Div 1 rate and get the skill set needed across the board— we currently have some very good assistants just not enough and if any are lacking, which i would not judge, then coach Chesney can make the call. Raising an additional $300 k targeted for football salaries should not be a problem The voice of reason!!!
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Post by efg72 on Sept 1, 2019 18:09:15 GMT -5
hc87- I assume your time at HC was in the mid80's. My time was in the mid60's. And, I have a close association with HC back to the late 50's. Our years at HC do greatly influence our views of HC football today. Those great, golden years of the 1980's were an outlier as were the 1930's. Let's hope that at least we can successfully compete and win some PL championships in my lifetime. Go Cross Go. LoveHC I think we should aspire for more but if we are stuck in all sports to a patriot league model than so be it. Then win the league each year, take on all other challengers, and be considered a model for excellence and not mediocrity. This will take about 5 years across the athletic program but worth the effort.
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