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Post by longsuffering on Sept 3, 2019 21:45:25 GMT -5
Did you know how 2 games finished on Saturday - excruciating = CCSU is lined up to the winning FG. kIck is no good and we should be going into OT - but FU coach called timeout just before the snap - next try - GOOD ! = Lehigh trails 14-13 with 6 seconds left - their FG kicker splits the uprights from 40 yds to win the game - but NO ! SFU coach called timeout before the snap - next try NO GOOD ! Only in the PL Good for the CCSU kicker. Ruby took her love to town. TG took his luck to Lehigh.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 4, 2019 7:09:19 GMT -5
We played JV games up until scholarships and the corresponding roster limits. So provably until about 2012 or 2013. We would usually play: Harvard Dartmouth Brown Bridgeton Academy Kent School Occasionally Assumption IIRC JV schedule ended once we got into PL slate. A quick count of the 2009 roster has 104 players. (the count was quick so might be off by one or two.)
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Post by timholycross on Sept 4, 2019 7:48:26 GMT -5
We played JV games up until scholarships and the corresponding roster limits. So provably until about 2012 or 2013. We would usually play: Harvard Dartmouth Brown Bridgeton Academy Kent School Occasionally Assumption IIRC JV schedule ended once we got into PL slate. A quick count of the 2009 roster has 104 players. (the count was quick so might be off by one or two.) Was the school policy at the time such that an accepted athlete got a need based package; and that package was good the entire 4 years whether the athlete played football or not (assuming the family's financial situation did not change)? If so, then there were considerably more than 104 recruited football players at Holy Cross; I remember one kid who was a starter his freshman year that never played again. And, of course, injuries that prevented a player from continuing to play, like Vaas' first quarterback, who was done after two years.
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Post by hcpride on Sept 4, 2019 8:09:57 GMT -5
The league has to change some of its policies...redshirting, # of scholarships, roster size etc We are losing to non and limited # scholarship programs now....we lost to Davidson and St Francis today...let that sink in. The FBS games were complete blow-outs....though somewhat to be expected, there were many examples of FCS schools playing FBS teams competitively this weekend. It's getting bad and apparently not getting better. It is quite possible that some PL schools follow the participatory model in a number of sports. Holy Cross certainly does. In other words, we have a men's soccer team (for example) and it has the requisite number of players and coaches and has the requisite equipment and participates in the requisite number of soccer games and demonstrates appropriate sportsmanship and the players on the field try to win. That seems satisfactory to the Holy Cross administration and therefore it is not a surprise we don't have a men's soccer team that wins a lot of games - not one season over .500 in the last 10 years. It is only logical that some of the PL will have that participatory mindset in football and therefore it is no surprise those schools do not win a lot of football games.
The winning football model would entail a serious investment in resources (which HC is now doing) and (IMHO) a thoughtful adjustment to some PL guidelines.
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Post by realism on Sept 4, 2019 8:31:30 GMT -5
The league has to change some of its policies...redshirting, # of scholarships, roster size etc We are losing to non and limited # scholarship programs now....we lost to Davidson and St Francis today...let that sink in. The FBS games were complete blow-outs....though somewhat to be expected, there were many examples of FCS schools playing FBS teams competitively this weekend. It's getting bad and apparently not getting better. It is quite possible that some PL schools follow the participatory model in a number of sports
No other PL school holds a candle to HC's participatory athletic program. HC should find another league.
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Post by inhocsigno on Sept 4, 2019 9:17:55 GMT -5
We have discussed the PL's failings ad nauseam on this board. Let's stop for the time being and just win football games.
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Post by matunuck on Sept 4, 2019 9:20:44 GMT -5
Right on -- Beat UNH and Yale -- Our 35 point loss to Navy was not solely the result of Navy's size and skill. Will Chesney adjust?
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Post by hcgrad94 on Sept 4, 2019 15:50:28 GMT -5
To be honest, I think I have such a negative opinion of Assumption because of the old JV days. I know Brian Kelly (Notre Dame) attended Assumption and coached there, however, always thought it was a joke mainly due to the assistant coaches that landed at HC and watching the JV games. Do any other former players have that same perspective? Maybe I am not up with the modern times. Assumption football was terrible for a long time. Beyond terrible. And now they have multiple kids in the NFL.
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Post by CHC8485 on Sept 4, 2019 15:54:08 GMT -5
InBox Signo Vinces?? When I look at my e-mail is more like ... Inbox Mortis Habes
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Post by CHC8485 on Sept 4, 2019 16:00:12 GMT -5
I assumed as much. Sometimes, I think autocorrect does it deliberately to be funny.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 4, 2019 18:02:50 GMT -5
It is quite possible that some PL schools follow the participatory model in a number of sports
No other PL school holds a candle to HC's participatory athletic program. HC should find another league. Not true.Bucknell now has more unduplicated participants than Holy Cross.
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 4, 2019 18:11:42 GMT -5
What exactly is an "unduplicated participant?" What percent of the students participate on D1 teams at each of the schools?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 4, 2019 18:13:48 GMT -5
Unduplicated participant: guessing that means if John Doe plays soccer and tennis he is counted only once the
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 4, 2019 18:26:32 GMT -5
Thanks, KY. Know what percentage of each school's unduplicated students play on school D1 teams?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 5, 2019 9:32:56 GMT -5
Unduplicated participant: guessing that means if John Doe plays soccer and tennis he is counted only once the This count avoids double and triple counting. The three sports most affected are cross country, indoor track and field, and outdoor track and field. HC has a higher participation rate as a percentage of enrollment than Bucknell. HC's participation rate as a percentage of enrollment was/is? top five in all of Division I. ('Lowly' Wofford may be #1.) The percentage is enhanced by HC only counting those matriculating in Worcester, and excluding those studying in NY, DC, or abroad. FADNP applied this 'adjustment'. HC's percentage pales when compared to some NESCAC schools. When the province decided to 'sacrifice' * HC to save BC when BC was at the brink of financial collapse, that meant preserving HC as a LAC, and the only Jesuit LAC in the world. So what model for athletics did TPTB follow nearly 50 years ago? The NESCAC model. * My opinion. The province needed to right the financially floundering BC ship, and while they were at it, chose to boost Fairfield. Boosting the latter also reduced the prospect of HC broadening the curriculum beyond the traditional liberal arts. HC is now a 21st Century anachronism.
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Post by efg72 on Sept 5, 2019 10:06:23 GMT -5
PP- Wow! Do you think that the province/HC believed that HC would gain entry into the NESCAC? I would hope that the province would see fit to give HC a boost so that the school could return to its former academic standing as the "flagship of Catholic higher education." Maybe, that ship has sailed. I admit to my bias. At that time, I thought that the NESCAC would have been a perfect landing spot for HC athletics. Unfortunately, the NESCAC schools did not agree with me. I remember that as far back as the '60's there was an HC Math(?) professor, V O McBrien(?) who pointed to Amherst college and its cohort as the type of athletics program for HC to pursue. At the time most students, myself included, scoffed at his proposal. How times have changed for me. IMO, the PL is also a great fit for HC athletics. However, competing in the various PL sports has been extremely problematic for HC. And, I don't have an answer. LoveHC Might have been McCarthy-
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Post by timholycross on Sept 5, 2019 12:33:43 GMT -5
PP- Wow! Do you think that the province/HC believed that HC would gain entry into the NESCAC? I would hope that the province would see fit to give HC a boost so that the school could return to its former academic standing as the "flagship of Catholic higher education." Maybe, that ship has sailed. I admit to my bias. At that time, I thought that the NESCAC would have been a perfect landing spot for HC athletics. Unfortunately, the NESCAC schools did not agree with me. I remember that as far back as the '60's there was an HC Math(?) professor, V O McBrien(?) who pointed to Amherst college and its cohort as the type of athletics program for HC to pursue. At the time most students, myself included, scoffed at his proposal. How times have changed for me. IMO, the PL is also a great fit for HC athletics. However, competing in the various PL sports has been extremely problematic for HC. And, I don't have an answer. LoveHC Might have been McCarthy- Vinnie McBrien was definitely in the "squad" of professors leading the charge for de-emphasis. And, yes, he taught math. But, I'm not sure how much he and others were listened to when it comes down to it. HC's academic stock rose in the 70s as its and BC's financial standings jumped by leaps and bounds. It's only been the last 15 years or so there has been a perception (notice the word I used, not sure if it's a cold, hard fact) of a decline. Maybe it is due to flying below the radar screen because of lack of branding (sports, etc.), but it may be due to a lot of other factors.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 5, 2019 18:38:08 GMT -5
PP- Wow! Do you think that the province/HC believed that HC would gain entry into the NESCAC? I would hope that the province would see fit to give HC a boost so that the school could return to its former academic standing as the "flagship of Catholic higher education." Maybe, that ship has sailed. I admit to my bias. At that time, I thought that the NESCAC would have been a perfect landing spot for HC athletics. Unfortunately, the NESCAC schools did not agree with me. I remember that as far back as the '60's there was an HC Math(?) professor, V O McBrien(?) who pointed to Amherst college and its cohort as the type of athletics program for HC to pursue. At the time most students, myself included, scoffed at his proposal. How times have changed for me. IMO, the PL is also a great fit for HC athletics. However, competing in the various PL sports has been extremely problematic for HC. And, I don't have an answer. LoveHC I have heard the tale (at least fourth or higher degree hearsay*) that HC approached NESCAC (in the 70's, perhaps about the time HC was considering dropping football and the ECAC affiliations were collapsing) about joining, and was told, 'No, you [HC] are too big. At the time, most of the NESCAC colleges were significantly smaller enrollment-wise than now. And perhaps NESCAC thought HC would not really abandon an emphasis on big-time athletics. And perhaps they weren't keen on a Catholic school. * In the dimmest recesses of my brain, Frank V. may have been the source of the tale, but as I said, my recitation of it is rank hearsay.
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 5, 2019 18:59:37 GMT -5
I heard a similar tale...and the reason stated was that HC was "Catholic."
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Post by timholycross on Sept 5, 2019 19:19:44 GMT -5
I heard a similar tale...and the reason stated was that HC was "Catholic." . Didn't HC approach that league at some point in the Gerry Reedy error (misspelling entirely intentional) as well?
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Post by Crucis#1 on Sept 5, 2019 20:14:53 GMT -5
I heard a similar tale...and the reason stated was that HC was "Catholic." . Didn't HC approach that league at some point in the Gerry Reedy error (misspelling entirely intentional) as well? Yes. . Believe it was in either 1996 or 1997. HC did approach the NESCAC regarding membership. I was at a presentation with Fr. Reedy and Kevin Condron which they stated the options that HC was pursuing. It was at the time that an athletic assessment was being made regarding basketball and shortly thereafter the decision to reinstate scholarships for basketball.
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Post by hc80 on Sept 5, 2019 20:26:30 GMT -5
Actually, HC was denied entrance to that exclusive conference because its mascot was a Crusader. The notion that a knight on a horse could be a fixture at a event was simply too much for the politically correct crowd in the 1970s. Thankfull,y, after all these years, we are now able to reapply for membership
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Sept 5, 2019 20:53:12 GMT -5
Actually, HC was denied entrance to that exclusive conference because its mascot was a Crusader. The notion that a knight on a horse could be a fixture at a event was simply too much for the politically correct crowd in the 1970s. Thankfull,y, after all these years, we are now able to reapply for membership But will the name of the college make some uncomfortable? We may have a better shot if we change the name to "The College of Worcester".
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Post by efg72 on Sept 5, 2019 21:38:47 GMT -5
What if... Would admission to the Div.III NESCAC have been the solution for HC that this thread looks for? Obviously, there would have been an association with these first rate NESCAC colleges and you are known by the company you keep. But, there would also be the drop of HC sports into the anonymity of Div. III. Would this move have been a positive or negative on: student life or the quality of the education offered by HC; or, the # of applicants/school ranking or the academic profile of the school; or, in the overall interest in our teams by students or alums. Would it have set HC further apart and above our other Catholic school brethren? We'll never know but what if... LoveHC My bet is if that what if took place this Board would not exist or if it did about 90% of the posters would not be following- just speculating of course
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Sept 5, 2019 21:58:19 GMT -5
What if... Would admission to the Div.III NESCAC have been the solution for HC that this thread looks for? Obviously, there would have been an association with these first rate NESCAC colleges and you are known by the company you keep. But, there would also be the drop of HC sports into the anonymity of Div. III. Would this move have been a positive or negative on: student life or the quality of the education offered by HC; or, the # of applicants/school ranking or the academic profile of the school; or, in the overall interest in our teams by students or alums. Would it have set HC further apart and above our other Catholic school brethren? We'll never know but what if... LoveHC My bet is if that what if took place this Board would not exist or if it did about 90% of the posters would not be following- just speculating of course This board definitely wouldn't exist. I also don't think our "academic perception" would be any different. Students who get into Brown might jump up and scream "I got into an Ivy League school!!!!" They may matriculate here over Duke or Notre Dame just to have an Ivy League education on the resume. Dont think the NESCAC as a brand name has anywhere near the cache. Students who get into Williams, Tufts or Hamilton didn't enter their senior year of HS with the specific goal of getting into a "NESCAC school".
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