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Post by sader1970 on Dec 25, 2016 16:18:21 GMT -5
You have the latter part right - AT has never come back from his freshman year form beyond the arc. When shooting a 3 this year, I'll take PB.
AT career 3s even including his outstanding freshman year is .305 (he was 41 of 99 for a .414 his first year, 19 of 63 for .302 his sophomore year, and an even worse 43 of 168 for .256 junior year and 14 of 54 for .254 this season. So for his career 117 of 384.
PB, on the other hand, took only 3 3-pointers his first year, missing all of therm. This year, he has taken 10 and made 4 of them. So, 0 for 3 for .000 first year and 4 of 10 for .400 this season. Career: 4 of 13 for .308. More importantly, his trend is improving, AT, not so much.
Anthony brings a lot to the table but shooting isn't one of those things, especially the long ball.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 25, 2016 16:18:51 GMT -5
Ant a 30% 3PT shooter for his career and 26% shooter this season. I cringe when I see him hoist it up. Benzan is 40% from three -- granted he has only attempted ten shots.
It's kind of amazing that Ant will be third or fourth on the HC all time list in 3PT attempts, despite being such a bad shooter.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 25, 2016 16:20:12 GMT -5
1970, Ant doesn't bring much to the table, IMO. Unfortunately, we don't have another player on the roster who is capable of taking his minutes.
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Post by crossbball13 on Dec 25, 2016 16:47:05 GMT -5
IMHO, there are things that PB does better than AT--many things, much better--but there is one thing PB doesn't have that AT does--a 3 pt shot--although AT has never returned to his Frosh form. Sota, I'm afraid that Ant's frosh year's stats are now the outlier/anomaly. Ant is what junior and senior years say he is--- not a 3 point shooter. |
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 25, 2016 17:24:51 GMT -5
The current hype for Benzan is somewhat reminiscent of the "hype train" that jumped AT right into the class of Torey Thomas and Jave Meade at the end of his Frosh year.
I think PB has the potential to be a very good "floor general PG," but I'm still unsure as to how that fits into Coach Carmody's system that is so heavily reliant upon 3-point shooting to make up for getting killed on the boards and allowing good teams to score at will inside the 3-point line.
It's very difficult to provide a "side-by-side" comparison between AT and PB at the Point Guard position this year because AT has been dominating the majority of the minutes.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 25, 2016 17:25:21 GMT -5
Ant, for how many minutes he's played and shots he's thrown up, may go down as the worst shooter in HC history.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 25, 2016 17:27:19 GMT -5
Ant, for how many minutes he's played and shots he's thrown up, may go down as the worst shooter in HC history. Worse shooter than Kevin Hyland? John Hurley? Eric Meister? No need to sensationalize. |
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 25, 2016 17:32:38 GMT -5
Ant, for how many minutes he's played and shots he's thrown up, may go down as the worst shooter in HC history. Worse shooter than Kevin Hyland? John Hurley? Eric Meister? No need to sensationalize. Different positions, but you know this. I'll play along. Hurley a 46% shooter. Meister a 51.5% shooter. Hyland a 52.5% shooter. Ant is currently a 32.2% shooter. Would I rather Ant shoot a jumper more than the previous three? Sure. But neither of the three you listed were jump shooters. Ant takes the majority of his shots via the jump shot. A terrible shooter. |
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 25, 2016 18:00:01 GMT -5
AT can occasionally be an effective shooter when his shots are not taken with 2-3 seconds left on the shot clock [how much of that is his fault or the team's fault is up for debate], or attempting drives to the basket against well positioned defenders that are a foot taller than he is [that is probably on him]. While he has had difficulty getting the ball on in-bound passes lately, I would think that is at least somewhat on the coaches and wonder why he inbounds probably 90%-95% towards the end of the game and they put a tall defender on him.
But AT handles the ball well and passes pretty well too, what a traditional PG should be good at.
So, as I said, he brings some good things to the table but I would prefer he not take too many shots.
And I don't like him coming in when they take MH out leaving us with two undersized guards. I do like the starting 5 the last 4-5 games.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 25, 2016 18:17:10 GMT -5
AT can occasionally be an effective shooter when his shots are not taken with 2-3 seconds left on the shot clock [how much of that is his fault or the team's fault is up for debate], or attempting drives to the basket against well positioned defenders that are a foot taller than he is [that is probably on him]. While he has had difficulty getting the ball on in-bound passes lately, I would think that is at least somewhat on the coaches and wonder why he inbounds probably 90%-95% towards the end of the game and they put a tall defender on him. But AT handles the ball well and passes pretty well too, what a traditional PG should be good at. So, as I said, he brings some good things to the table but I would prefer he not take too many shots. And I don't like him coming in when they take MH out leaving us with two undersized guards. I do like the starting 5 the last 4-5 games. Great assessment, sader1970. |
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Post by crosspride on Dec 25, 2016 18:41:04 GMT -5
Ant a 30% 3PT shooter for his career and 26% shooter this season. I cringe when I see him hoist it up. Benzan is 40% from three -- granted he has only attempted ten shots. It's kind of amazing that Ant will be third or fourth on the HC all time list in 3PT attempts, despite being such a bad shooter. Don't want this to sound negative vs PB since I like his game a lot, but I don't think we can be citing PBs 3pt % to illustrate that he's a better shooter than AT at this juncture. One, he's taken 13 in his career. If he misses his first shot vs. BU he'll go under 30% for his career. Same level that would make you cringe if it was AT. Two, many of ATs shots come at the end of the shot clock when there is no other option. Do you want him to just take a shot clock violation? That would likely bring his % up a few points. Most, if not all of PBs shots are good, open shots, so in that sense it's not a fair comparison. If/when PB is the starting pg next year, he'll inevitable have to hoist a few of these lower percentage 3pt shots. As for AT being 3rd or 4th all time, don't you think the fact that he's been the lead guard in Carmody's offense has a lot to do with that? If AT doesn't do anything well, why does Carmody play him for 35 mpg? You can say it's because there aren't any other strong options, but if AT really did bring nothing to the table, I'm sure Carmody would play him as little as possible. |
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Dec 25, 2016 19:00:52 GMT -5
Has any other HC player in Crossports history been responsible for more threads being hijacked?  |
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Post by sarasota on Dec 25, 2016 19:15:30 GMT -5
NAD- Yes. Beinert.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 25, 2016 19:18:41 GMT -5
Ant a 30% 3PT shooter for his career and 26% shooter this season. I cringe when I see him hoist it up. Benzan is 40% from three -- granted he has only attempted ten shots. It's kind of amazing that Ant will be third or fourth on the HC all time list in 3PT attempts, despite being such a bad shooter. Don't want this to sound negative vs PB since I like his game a lot, but I don't think we can be citing PBs 3pt % to illustrate that he's a better shooter than AT at this juncture. One, he's taken 13 in his career. If he misses his first shot vs. BU he'll go under 30% for his career. Same level that would make you cringe if it was AT. Two, many of ATs shots come at the end of the shot clock when there is no other option. Do you want him to just take a shot clock violation? That would likely bring his % up a few points. Most, if not all of PBs shots are good, open shots, so in that sense it's not a fair comparison. If/when PB is the starting pg next year, he'll inevitable have to hoist a few of these lower percentage 3pt shots. As for AT being 3rd or 4th all time, don't you think the fact that he's been the lead guard in Carmody's offense has a lot to do with that? If AT doesn't do anything well, why does Carmody play him for 35 mpg? You can say it's because there aren't any other strong options, but if AT really did bring nothing to the table, I'm sure Carmody would play him as little as possible. Great first post, CrossPride. Welcome, Merry Christmas, and please post often! |
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Post by possum on Dec 25, 2016 20:10:14 GMT -5
SOV hates AT and has admitted as much so you need to take anything he says about him with a grain of salt. Obviously Carmody wouldn't play him 30 plus minutes a game if he brought nothing to the table. Maybe we should give AT's minutes to the Carmody recruits Zignorski and LeSann and see how we do.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 25, 2016 21:19:32 GMT -5
The current hype for Benzan is somewhat reminiscent of the "hype train" that jumped AT right into the class of Torey Thomas and Jave Meade at the end of his Frosh year.
I think PB has the potential to be a very good "floor general PG," but I'm still unsure as to how that fits into Coach Carmody's system that is so heavily reliant upon 3-point shooting to make up for getting killed on the boards and allowing good teams to score at will inside the 3-point line. It's very difficult to provide a "side-by-side" comparison between AT and PB at the Point Guard position this year because AT has been dominating the majority of the minutes. Any reasonable person evaluating Anthony Thompson after his absolutely outstanding freshman season would conclude that he deserved to be compared to Jave Meade and Torey Thomas based on their freshman seasons. Unfortunately due to injuries and/or other factors his performance had a different trajectory than theirs after freshman season. I don't see any "hype" for Pat Benzan and I might be his biggest fan. I think the consensus is that most fans are very pleasantly surprised by how much he has improved and they like his heady style of play. If you can cite any posts that suggest he is as good as TT or JM please bring them to our attention. |
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Post by crossbball13 on Dec 25, 2016 21:30:45 GMT -5
No hype exists for Benzan. Just happy that he has made what appears to be a 180 from last year. Just sensationalization by you know who.
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Post by hchoops on Dec 25, 2016 21:51:38 GMT -5
The current hype for Benzan is somewhat reminiscent of the "hype train" that jumped AT right into the class of Torey Thomas and Jave Meade at the end of his Frosh year.
I think PB has the potential to be a very good "floor general PG," but I'm still unsure as to how that fits into Coach Carmody's system that is so heavily reliant upon 3-point shooting to make up for getting killed on the boards and allowing good teams to score at will inside the 3-point line. It's very difficult to provide a "side-by-side" comparison between AT and PB at the Point Guard position this year because AT has been dominating the majority of the minutes. Any reasonable person evaluating Anthony Thompson after his absolutely outstanding freshman season would conclude that he deserved to be compared to Jave Meade and Torey Thomas based on their freshman seasons. Unfortunately due to injuries and/or other factors his performance had a different trajectory than theirs after freshman season. I consider myself a reasonable person, but I never compared AT to either Jave or Torey. AT has most always looked primarily for his shot first, Jave rarely did, Torey far less than AT. They were both far better passers and decision makers than AT even after his frosh season. |
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 25, 2016 22:10:44 GMT -5
The current hype for Benzan is somewhat reminiscent of the "hype train" that jumped AT right into the class of Torey Thomas and Jave Meade at the end of his Frosh year.
I think PB has the potential to be a very good "floor general PG," but I'm still unsure as to how that fits into Coach Carmody's system that is so heavily reliant upon 3-point shooting to make up for getting killed on the boards and allowing good teams to score at will inside the 3-point line. It's very difficult to provide a "side-by-side" comparison between AT and PB at the Point Guard position this year because AT has been dominating the majority of the minutes. Any reasonable person evaluating Anthony Thompson after his absolutely outstanding freshman season would conclude that he deserved to be compared to Jave Meade and Torey Thomas based on their freshman seasons. Unfortunately due to injuries and/or other factors his performance had a different trajectory than theirs after freshman season. I don't see any "hype" for Pat Benzan and I might be his biggest fan. I think the consensus is that most fans are very pleasantly surprised by how much he has improved and they like his heady style of play. If you can cite any posts that suggest he is as good as TT or JM please bring them to our attention. See below: Pat Benzan is beginning to give Torey Thomas a run for my favorite HC player of this century. I just love watching him (as Sota suggests above) and the word that comes to me is one I and others have used about him repeatedly: "smart". He is one smart ballplayer in my opinion. |
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 25, 2016 22:14:11 GMT -5
Kentucky just said he enjoys watching Benzan play the game nearly as much as he did Torey. He didn't mention Benzan being as good as Torey.
Keep reaching, Caro.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 25, 2016 22:14:22 GMT -5
Any reasonable person evaluating Anthony Thompson after his absolutely outstanding freshman season would conclude that he deserved to be compared to Jave Meade and Torey Thomas based on their freshman seasons. Unfortunately due to injuries and/or other factors his performance had a different trajectory than theirs after freshman season. I consider myself a reasonable person, but I never compared AT to either Jave or Torey. AT has most always looked primarily for his shot first, Jave rarely did, Torey far less than AT. They were both far better passers and decision makers than AT even after his frosh season. I completely agree, 'hoops. However, others were making the comparison. TT and Jave were in a class of their own, followed by the damn good "1B" tier of Seravalle and Doherty over the past 15 years. |
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 25, 2016 23:18:31 GMT -5
I guess I have failed to make myself clear. The point with Anthony Thompson was to compare his freshman season to the freshman seasons of JM or TT. He had a great freshman season.
Regarding my note on Pat Benzan being a "favorite", surely, Caro, you recognize that does not mean I believe he's reached the level of play of the great HC point guards, it just means that I like the way he plays.
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Post by ncaam on Dec 30, 2016 17:17:05 GMT -5
Ty Graves BC to St Louie
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