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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 22, 2019 18:51:54 GMT -5
Never nor do I ever want to see it happen Was almost joking But the following could be possible Niego gets a RS year and leaves Verbeek wants to play and transfers Faw graduates in May/July and plays elsewhere Those guys had a very limited selection of offers out of high school. Struggling to get minutes on one of the worst teams in the country after playing minor (or no) roles on the last place team in the PL the year before is not exactly going to lead to heavy interest on the D1 transfer circuit. Playing a 2-3 zone and letting these guys just stand around the perimeter and chuck 3’s might make the team a little better than the current product, but it’s not nearly enough to actually have anything close to a good team and is not going to set up the program for the future.
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Post by efg72 on Dec 22, 2019 18:58:02 GMT -5
Staying stuck on m/m defense and no offensive system and going 3-25 doesnt make anything better.
I heard you have coached at a higher level(in Hs or college) and know better than many how important it is to teach a team how to win. Losing 20 plus games is not a formula to recruit better talent or create and develop a winning culture-but I am at best a fan who knows very little
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Post by Tom on Dec 22, 2019 19:07:16 GMT -5
I'm not claiming Faw is a superstar and yes, he commits a lot of fouls. He's also the widest body among the bigs and statistically rebounds at a better per 40 rate than the other bigs.
If he can stay out of foul trouble he might not get pushed around as much as the other bigs
.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Dec 22, 2019 19:31:31 GMT -5
As a frosh. Matt Faw was good enough to score 2 "And 1s" against a good Harvard team, taking it right at them. He also played well in the PL tournament at Colgate.
Last year, as a sophomore, he was good enough to hit the game winning 3 against Bucknell, and good enough to hit another key 3 at Lehigh, in the team's two best league games all year. Yes, he is guilty of being better suited for the style of the former coach.
Taking our frustrations with the program out on kids who didn't bail is pretty lame.
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Post by efg72 on Dec 22, 2019 19:41:58 GMT -5
As a frosh. Matt Faw was good enough to score 2 "And 1s" against a good Harvard team, taking it right at them. He also played well in the PL tournament at Colgate. Last year, as a sophomore, he was good enough to hit the game winning 3 against Bucknell, and good enough to hit another key 3 at Lehigh, in the team's two best league games all year. Yes, he is guilty of being better suited for the style of the former coach. Taking our frustrations with the program out on kids who didn't bail is pretty lame. Amen these kids show up every day, 365 times per year, and truly care and want to win! i think any frustration with a player be more wisely kept to ourselves or directed to the staff i made a mistake last year with a graduating pg, who played his heart out( btw was given way more latitude to fail than Butler) and he too was in the wrong system and not used the right way. I apologized to him, his family and supporters on this board. faw and Niego can contribute at this level a shame they aren’t being developed
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Post by DiMarz on Dec 22, 2019 20:06:20 GMT -5
One thing we all have to realize is the group of players on this team were recruited to play Carmody's style...pass on the perimeter shoot 3's, and play zone defense..All the 5's fit this style, they all are comfortable shooting 3's and not that comfortable posting up and making drop steps to score against contact...Connor drives me crazy when he gets the ball in the lane and has to make about 5 moves before shooting the ball..Just catch it and go right up, a quick release...The other returning players have a hard time going to the hoop and finishing...on D, we have trouble guarding and traffic cone! Just not enough quickness, and court awareness..It is really hard for Coach Nelson to get this group to play in his style..Square pegs and round holes...The freshman are doing a good job, Joe P. can be a monster, he is a finisher..Drew L. is really needed out there, his play as the point guard makes everybody elses job so much easier on offense...I wonder if he did not play today to get the hip back to 100% with the PL coming up... My last thought is the lack of team quickness really hampers both ends of the floor..On D it is obvious...on Offense, the team doesn't practice against a quick D, so passes and moves that work in practice, don't necessarily work in games...The shooting is one are that gets affected, in games we have to get the shot off quicker than practice, this makes for a different looking shot, especially around the hoop..(CN missed 2 open layups, just not finding the hoop soon enough).... The team still plays hard, and I wouldn't be surprised to see a short bench as the PL season gite under way...
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Dec 22, 2019 20:15:32 GMT -5
Good coaches are able to adapt to personnel they have. The "needs own recruits" is a cop out - at any school.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 22, 2019 20:22:20 GMT -5
Good coaches are able to adapt to personnel they have. The "needs own recruits" is a cop out - at any school. The team finished in last place in the PL last year and lost its three best players. The “it’s not his players” thing is far less important than the simple fact that there is a serious dearth of D1 talent on the roster. And of the few players who actually might play elsewhere, none of them knew anything about defense and rebounding at the D1 level prior to Nelson being hired in July.
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Post by DiMarz on Dec 22, 2019 20:33:19 GMT -5
Good coaches are able to adapt to personnel they have. The "needs own recruits" is a cop out - at any school. If you have ever sat at the end of a bench, looked out there and thought, "there is nothing we can do to succeed" you would understand...you look down the bench and there is nothing you can do....It is a hard job.....believe me, been there...
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Post by WorcesterGray on Dec 22, 2019 20:33:38 GMT -5
As a frosh. Matt Faw was good enough to score 2 "And 1s" against a good Harvard team, taking it right at them. He also played well in the PL tournament at Colgate. Last year, as a sophomore, he was good enough to hit the game winning 3 against Bucknell, and good enough to hit another key 3 at Lehigh, in the team's two best league games all year. Yes, he is guilty of being better suited for the style of the former coach. Taking our frustrations with the program out on kids who didn't bail is pretty lame. Well said. My bad.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Dec 22, 2019 20:39:51 GMT -5
It's also true that the team isn't a collection of Xs and Os, and those maneuvering them. They're individuals, with personalities and styles, some of which may not mesh well. We don't know what goes on in practice.
The Matt Faw we watched the last couple seasons seems like a different person now. And I don't understand it.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 22, 2019 21:04:29 GMT -5
Good coaches are able to adapt to personnel they have. The "needs own recruits" is a cop out - at any school. The team finished in last place in the PL last year and lost its three best players. The “it’s not his players” thing is far less important than the simple fact that there is a serious dearth of D1 talent on the roster. And of the few players who actually might play elsewhere, none of them knew anything about defense and rebounding at the D1 level prior to Nelson being hired in July. There you go again. The team did not lose its three best players. Your stubbornness with the anti-Butler narrative is really getting old.
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Post by efg72 on Dec 22, 2019 21:11:14 GMT -5
Good coaches are able to adapt to personnel they have. The "needs own recruits" is a cop out - at any school. If you have ever sat at the end of a bench, looked out there and thought, "there is nothing we can do to succeed" you would understand...you look down the bench and there is nothing you can do....It is a hard job.....believe me, been there... We have no idea what is going on at practice we have no view into what the staff expectations are for each player we have no idea how much real teaching is going on however it might be fair to suggest few players have confidence in themselves or in the team’s ability to win it might be fair to say that once Lowder returns the opponent can slow his penetration by forcing him to take an extra dribble To the side before he attacks it might be fair to suggest they will collapse on Pridgen making his dribble penetration more complicated If you are trying to change the culture as many have called for, players need to know you want them to be successful and you are doing your best to get them there like all of us in the working world understand we go to a job for three reasons We trust and believe in the people we work with-teammates We trust and believe in the people we work for-coaching staff We have the opportunity to contribute and are valued— winning and the opportunity to be a part in something bigger than ourselves Players are no different if they don’t have all three you don’t have much of a team and that frustration is passed on to future recruits It is way too early for assessments but certainly pieces to evaluate over the next two/three years
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Post by crossbball13 on Dec 22, 2019 21:13:07 GMT -5
The team finished in last place in the PL last year and lost its three best players. The “it’s not his players” thing is far less important than the simple fact that there is a serious dearth of D1 talent on the roster. And of the few players who actually might play elsewhere, none of them knew anything about defense and rebounding at the D1 level prior to Nelson being hired in July. There you go again. The team did not lose its three best players. Your stubbornness with the anti-Butler narrative is really getting old. The team absolutely lost its 3 best players.
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Post by gks on Dec 22, 2019 21:14:26 GMT -5
This is just a bad team with little or no Division 1 talent. Very similar to almost every team at Holy Cross unfortunately.
And this is the school's 'marquee sport'...
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Post by efg72 on Dec 22, 2019 21:20:11 GMT -5
It is a bad team for the time being But There is enough D1 talent on the roster, mostly role players, but with the exception of a couple of players these kids can play D1 if they are on a team that plays a style that fits their skills—however with the changes in philosophy it might not be at Holy Cross and that is a shame
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Post by efg72 on Dec 22, 2019 21:23:41 GMT -5
There you go again. The team did not lose its three best players. Your stubbornness with the anti-Butler narrative is really getting old. The team absolutely lost its 3 best players. I might accept the three players with the greatest potential, but one player who moved up a few levels was able to find ways to hide for large minutes and did not play hard. IMO Butler is the far better player
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Post by crosspride on Dec 22, 2019 21:28:32 GMT -5
The team finished in last place in the PL last year and lost its three best players. The “it’s not his players” thing is far less important than the simple fact that there is a serious dearth of D1 talent on the roster. And of the few players who actually might play elsewhere, none of them knew anything about defense and rebounding at the D1 level prior to Nelson being hired in July. There you go again. The team did not lose its three best players. Your stubbornness with the anti-Butler narrative is really getting old. Floyd (#1 by a mile), Green, and Grandison were the three best players. Actually, that brings up a comment I haven’t heard much on the very poor start. The defense was going to be absolutely atrocious without Floyd regardless of man/zone/coach*. He bailed out so many horrific individual defensive efforts last year. Now that those aren’t masked, some players and the team as a whole are exposed. Remember how poor the defensive metrics were last year, even with the dPoY changing almost every shot at the rim? I won’t argue with those saying Nelson isn’t doing anything to help, but when your best interior defender is a 6’5” frosh, there’s not much that you can do. *Was Willard available?😀
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 22, 2019 22:03:54 GMT -5
The team finished in last place in the PL last year and lost its three best players. The “it’s not his players” thing is far less important than the simple fact that there is a serious dearth of D1 talent on the roster. And of the few players who actually might play elsewhere, none of them knew anything about defense and rebounding at the D1 level prior to Nelson being hired in July. There you go again. The team did not lose its three best players. Your stubbornness with the anti-Butler narrative is really getting old. Your continuing to think Butler is a great player because of his high school highlight tape has been old for years. A take that Butler is better than Floyd, Green, or Grandison is outrageous.
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 22, 2019 22:11:27 GMT -5
Butler gives his best in every game (even when he was injured last year). That was not always true of Grandison. For that reason I feel Butler is the better player of those two. Grandisonm had a huge upside but chose to not always use it. That knocks him down a peg in my book.
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Post by sarasota on Dec 22, 2019 23:44:35 GMT -5
Butler is in the middle of a bad situation yet continues to put up good stats and is the team emotional leader. He's doing things that, if he were playing on a good team, he wouldn't NEED to do. What more could anyone ask of him.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 22, 2019 23:55:02 GMT -5
17 points, 17 rebounds, 7 assists and but 1 turnover--many people would consider that a pretty good game.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Dec 23, 2019 3:50:47 GMT -5
If people are so outraged by the results so far, and simply MUST take it out on former Coach Carmody's recruits, again, why not focus on Green and Grandison (if that's what you have to do)? Do you think Sacred Heart would have been able to get away with that extreme overplay defense in the half court if CG was in there yesterday? Who cares if AB was best or worst returning player from last year? He's out there giving everything he has.
Coach Nelson did NOT inherit the team former Coach Carmody left. It changed before he could even get all of his stuff into his new office.
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Post by possum on Dec 23, 2019 7:02:52 GMT -5
We're 1-11 so far with some of the most horrific losses in school history and what I'm reading from different posters is we shouldn't criticize the players or the coach. If that's the case there will be little or no discussion of the games. I see nothing wrong with critiquing a player's performance on the court as long as there are no personal attacks and the coach's strategy/performance is certainly fair game. It's interesting that we're not supposed to criticize the players but it's okay to call out a former player for a lack of hustle to try to build up the value of another player. I guess once they take off the purple jersey anything goes.
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Post by sader81 on Dec 23, 2019 7:22:58 GMT -5
The Matt Faw we watched the last couple seasons seems like a different person now. And I don't understand it. He was hurt and still not 100%.
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