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Post by sader1970 on Jan 30, 2020 11:15:02 GMT -5
I am not a huge fan of the Raiders but you have to hand it to them.
They are located in the boondocks where there are more cows than people yet they have been an historic force in PL and even D-IAA football for years (most recent year not withstanding) and have improved to the point of being a PL force in basketball and not shabby in hockey. Yet they have this athletic success with an enrollment about the same size as Holy Cross with facilities no better than, and probably worse than, Holy Cross while maintaining an excellent academic reputation and rankings (better than HC).
So, how do they do that? What lessons can Holy Cross learn from them? What holds us back from meeting and exceeding Colgate?
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jan 30, 2020 12:34:29 GMT -5
Coaching
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Post by moose1970 on Jan 30, 2020 12:41:23 GMT -5
I am not a huge fan of the Raiders but you have to hand it to them. They are located in the boondocks where there are more cows than people yet they have been an historic force in PL and even D-IAA football for years (most recent year not withstanding) and have improved to the point of being a PL force in basketball and not shabby in hockey. Yet they have this athletic success with an enrollment about the same size as Holy Cross with facilities no better than, and probably worse than, Holy Cross while maintaining an excellent academic reputation and rankings (better than HC). So, how do they do that? What lessons can Holy Cross learn from them? What holds us back from meeting and exceeding Colgate? rankings (better than HC)
colgate ranked #17 holy cross ranked # 27 (they have more cows???) so what? both are good schools with similar profiles!!!
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Jan 30, 2020 13:02:23 GMT -5
HC says they want to win, but participation is more important.
Colgate says they want to win, and actually means it.
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Post by moose1970 on Jan 30, 2020 13:49:32 GMT -5
HC says they want to win, but participation is more important. Colgate says they want to win, and actually means it. Colgate says they want to win, and actually means it.
Colgate football was 4-8 in 2019! maybe they should try more "participation"?
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 30, 2020 13:55:39 GMT -5
I don't think you'd want to compare their football record over the last 10-15 years with that of HC as we would come up very short.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 30, 2020 14:20:27 GMT -5
That was then. This is now.
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Post by moose1970 on Jan 30, 2020 15:15:34 GMT -5
That was then. This is now. "NOW" counts more than "THEN"
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jan 30, 2020 15:28:15 GMT -5
Colgate will appeal to a student seeking a more secular campus. Plus for those so interested, Colgate has fraternities and sororities; HC has Hogan. Perception that Colgate has a more business and finance oriented curriculum. _________________________________ Colgate has a bit more money to spend. HC's endowment value June 2009 $492.7M HC's endowment value June 2019 $785.9M, (+$293M)
Colgate's endowment value, May 2009 $550M Colgate's endowment value, June 2019 $949M (+$399M) (Their endowment also performed woefully last year.)
And my favorite comparison school, Bowdoin's endowment value June 2011 $909M Bowdoin's endowment value June 2019 $1.74B (+$830M) Bowdoin's annualized ten year return through June 2019 was 12.1 percent.
If HC's annualized ten year return had been 12 percent, HC's June 2019 endowment value would be $1.53B, or nearly double what it is. An endowment of $1.53 billion would provide $33.5M in additional funds annually to operate the college, above what HC's endowment presently finances. Videoboard at Fitton! and at the Hart!
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 30, 2020 15:32:42 GMT -5
Are you suggesting that our endowment had not been well managed?
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 30, 2020 15:34:37 GMT -5
That sounds like more than just a suggestion.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jan 30, 2020 17:14:42 GMT -5
Are you suggesting that our endowment had not been well managed? If the ten year record of the men's hoops team was 50 wins and 250 losses, would the team be on its original, second, third, fourth, fifth head coach at the end of that period? Would guardians be taking away sharp instruments from posters here? Would knees have calluses from years of earnest supplication? Would posters, when asked, answer that they went to Holy Cross, -- in Indiana.
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Post by hcpride on Jan 30, 2020 17:31:02 GMT -5
The kids I see applying to Colgate are also applying to Dartmouth and Cornell so I see very little (if any at all) overlap with the HC student body. FWIW
Those three schools (Colgate, Dartmouth, and Cornell) have very strong academic reputations nowadays, are similarly situated in rural areas, similarly embrace Greek life, and are similarly secular.
IMHO Colgate's academic reputation nowadays is their biggest plus right now in attracting quality PL athletes in a wide variety of sports. (Obviously, I don't mean they attract all the best PL athletes all the time in every sport every year.)
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 30, 2020 18:59:22 GMT -5
To Moose's point, we can stipulate that the Raiders had a down year in football last season. Their basketball program has been in ascendancy as the football team stumbled to only its second losing season in the past 10 years.
Colgate football 2010-2019: 64 wins, 53 losses for a 54.7% winning percentage Holy Cross football 2010-2019: 47 wins, 67 losses for a 41.2% winning percentage
Colgate men's basketball 2009-10 to 2018-19: 131 wins, 184 losses for a 41.6% winning percentage Holy Cross men's basketball 2009-10 to 2018-19: 136 wins, 178 losses for a 43.3% winning percentage
Colgate have just had their best 2 seasons of the last 10 in men's basketball with a 24-11 season in '18-'19 after a 19-14 season in '17-'18.
Basketball being our premiere sport has only been 2 basis points better than what many of us would consider a poor Colgate basketball program over the last 10 years.
So, it's the Greek system that "sells" Colgate?
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 30, 2020 19:29:32 GMT -5
That was then. This is now. "NOW" counts more than "THEN" On this board?
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 30, 2020 19:48:56 GMT -5
My loose image of Colgate used to be that of a waspy old line school for people who fit the traditional Ivy League profile (Prep school, old money, the right connections, whatever - think of any Hollywood comedy like "Trading Places" or "Caddy Shack") but were not smart enough to get into an IL school.
I'm sure that is neither correct nor fair, but I wonder if one advantage they have in Patriot League Sports is a well established pipe line from prep school athletic programs? But HC sure seems to recruit well from prep schools, too and we used to always have a good pipeline from Catholic schools. I think those that mentioned Institutional Commitment to winning at CU might be on to something.
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 30, 2020 19:51:37 GMT -5
Are you suggesting that our endowment had not been well managed? No. He proved it.
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Post by princetoncrusader on Jan 30, 2020 21:37:05 GMT -5
Bowdoin's record is indeed impressive. The school benefits from having Stanley Druckenmiller on its board. Their CIO opted to invest in China years ago, against Stanley's wishes. He later admitted that the decision by the CIO was a good one. She makes over a $1 million per year. Not sure who is on the investment committee for HC, but the results, particularly for FY2019, are disappointing to be charitable.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 30, 2020 21:45:59 GMT -5
You've heard it here before: get rid of all the overpaid money managers and put it all in index funds. How many money managers beat the indices? Answer is very, very few and even fewer year in and year out. We must be paying several million $$$ to our team--I'd be willing to handle the index funds as a volunteer.
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Post by hcgrad94 on Jan 30, 2020 21:49:47 GMT -5
I am not a huge fan of the Raiders but you have to hand it to them. They are located in the boondocks where there are more cows than people yet they have been an historic force in PL and even D-IAA football for years (most recent year not withstanding) and have improved to the point of being a PL force in basketball and not shabby in hockey. Yet they have this athletic success with an enrollment about the same size as Holy Cross with facilities no better than, and probably worse than, Holy Cross while maintaining an excellent academic reputation and rankings (better than HC). So, how do they do that? What lessons can Holy Cross learn from them? What holds us back from meeting and exceeding Colgate? Where have they finished relative to us in OK Presidents Cup the last few years?
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 30, 2020 22:02:36 GMT -5
'18-'19 Colgate 6, HC 7 '17-'18 Colgate 6, HC 7 '16-'17 Colgate 8, HC 6 FWIW, I know it might just be me but I don't really care if HC doesn't do well in the PL President's Cup if they won the league championship in football and men's basketball most years. In case you are wondering, Holy Cross comes in 2nd in the Turnpike Trophy competition every year. [My grandfather used to say "I came in 2nd in the race . . . . . only two were running."]
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 30, 2020 23:43:53 GMT -5
A silver medal
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 31, 2020 7:02:28 GMT -5
Heck, at least we get a second place on the record each year. The best BU has ever done in the race for the Turnpike Trophy is next to last! (Yes, based on an old story about a Soviet press release about a road race between mass produced Soviet and American cars.)
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Post by hcgrad94 on Jan 31, 2020 7:49:01 GMT -5
'18-'19 Colgate 6, HC 7 '17-'18 Colgate 6, HC 7 '16-'17 Colgate 8, HC 6 FWIW, I know it might just be me but I don't really care if HC doesn't do well in the PL President's Cup if they won the league championship in football and men's basketball most years. In case you are wondering, Holy Cross comes in 2nd in the Turnpike Trophy competition every year. [My grandfather used to say "I came in 2nd in the race . . . . . only two were running."] My point is that the Colgate results don't scream success to me.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 31, 2020 8:20:21 GMT -5
In football, which is the big one for me, and most recently basketball.
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