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Post by hchoops on Apr 25, 2021 12:24:13 GMT -5
Sen. Paul should be the last person any respectable person should emulate.
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Post by mm67 on Apr 25, 2021 12:25:55 GMT -5
I agree that both sides are trying to use Dr. Fauci for their political purposes. The problem to me is that he makes it way too easy by not anticipating or caring about how his answers are going to be used or why a question is phrased in a certain way. For example, on CNN the other day, he was asked about a recent poll showing that “43%”of Republicans say they won’t get a vaccine. That would have been a good opportunity for him to say there are many people of both parties who are unwilling to get vaccinated (21% according to the poll in question) and that we should come together as a country to make sure that everyone understands the benefits of the vaccine to people individually as well as our ability to return to “normal” as quickly as possible. Instead, he took the bait, made it about Republicans and definitely made it less likely that reluctant Republicans are going to get vaccinated. Because now they’re all saying “FU Dr. Fauci! You can stick your vaccine up your derrière.” If he’s as smart as we think he is, he needs to be smart enough to bring down the political temperature on this issue if he really wants more people vaccinated. He may have also pointed out that the Monmouth study in question polled a grand total of 79 Republicans who said they were unwilling to be vaccinated. He might also have pointed out that 45% of the people polled said they were Independents, which suggests registered Republicans or Dems didn’t want to be judged by the poller and just said they were Independent. Among these “Independents,” a much higher percentage said they would be vaccinated. Beyond the questionable wisdom of appearing on a show like that (and your point is well taken regarding the obvious bias/dishonesty), I've noticed governmental bureaucrats tend to blame the folks when their plans or products don't work out as hoped. And it is very off-putting and counterproductive. Perhaps Dr. Fauci needs to swallow his pride and take some input from people of other political persuasions (SEN Paul, amongst others) in order to improve his messaging and improve vaccine numbers. For those who minimized the coronavirus as nothing more and somewhat less than the common annual flu and vastly underestimated the numbers of sick & dead, it would be most helpful if they admitted their errors.. An honest look into the mirror no matter the ugliness can prove most enlightening. Until the time they publicly take responsibility for their gross errors, their continuing comments are meaningless.
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Post by HC92 on Apr 25, 2021 13:28:00 GMT -5
I think it would be helpful on any issue these days if we just looked at what someone says or does now and opine on whether what that person did was good or bad or helpful or unhelpful. It seems like the most common response to criticism of any kind on any issue is to try to find something someone else did that was worse and never say whether the current thing is right or wrong. If Biden does something stupid, everyone should be comfortable saying that. It really isn’t super important if Trump something worse a year ago. Just as when Trump did something stupid, it wasn’t helpful for Republicans to respond to that criticism by saying Obama did something the same or worse when he was President. But that’s how every issue seems to be discussed these days. That needs to change if we’re going to ever have the healing that so many claim to want.
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Post by possum on Apr 25, 2021 13:33:15 GMT -5
Speaking of stupid we shouldn't forget to commemorate the anniversary of the other guys solution to the problem, mainlining detergent and shining a UV light up your ass, and to think 74 million people wanted 4 more years of that, we are truly broken.
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Post by td128 on Apr 25, 2021 13:40:27 GMT -5
What is that phrase that begins something like, “Great minds talk about ideas . . . ?”
I might imagine that those more and even most highly educated — and even the rest of us — have seen that phrase and might appreciate its meaning.
Interesting comments here and descriptive Personal terms used for our fellow citizens.
Men and women for and with others?
Hmmm . . Wow
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Post by rgs318 on Apr 25, 2021 13:52:43 GMT -5
Speaking of stupid we shouldn't forget to commemorate the anniversary of the other guys solution to the problem, mainlining detergent and shining a UV light up your ass, and to think 74 million people wanted 4 more years of that, we are truly broken. Just for the record, no one wanted either of those things and people who say someone of authority did are, well, fools. I understand trying to make a point with fiction, but sadly, in this time, some choose to believe such garbage. (BTW: I am not sure who these "guys" were, but if you meant one person, I believe there is some punctuation missing.)
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Post by rgs318 on Apr 25, 2021 13:56:15 GMT -5
What is that phrase that begins something like, “Great minds talk about ideas . . . ?” I might imagine that those more and even most highly educated — and even the rest of us — have seen that phrase and might appreciate its meaning. Interesting comments here and descriptive Personal terms used for our fellow citizens. Men and women for and with others? Is this the quote you were referencing? "Small minds discuss people. Average minds discuss events. Great minds discuss ideas.” We seem to be having more "pronouncements" here than discussions.
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Post by higheredguy on Apr 25, 2021 15:07:11 GMT -5
According to the latest polling, Fauci maintains the highest approval rating of any officials related to the handling of the pandemic.
Fauci should continue with his competent leadership just as he has been doing for the entirety of the pandemic.
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Post by HC92 on Apr 25, 2021 15:17:53 GMT -5
According to the latest polling, Fauci maintains the highest approval rating of any officials related to the handling of the pandemic. Fauci should continue with his competent leadership just as he has been doing for the entirety of the pandemic. So we can’t think he’s done a good job overall and also criticize him when he says and does things that contribute to the ongoing politicization of the vaccine and have the effect of fewer people getting vaccinated rather than more?
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Post by hchoops on Apr 25, 2021 16:00:17 GMT -5
According to the latest polling, Fauci maintains the highest approval rating of any officials related to the handling of the pandemic. Fauci should continue with his competent leadership just as he has been doing for the entirety of the pandemic. So we can’t think he’s done a good job overall and also criticize him when he says and does things that contribute to the ongoing politicization of the vaccine and have the effect of fewer people getting vaccinated rather than more? That last clause is very dubious and practically possible to prove. He obviously is trying to encourage more people to get vaccinated. If he made one error in attempting to do what is best for our country, he is not perfect, as the article states.
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Post by hcpride on Apr 25, 2021 16:12:02 GMT -5
According to the latest polling, Fauci maintains the highest approval rating of any officials related to the handling of the pandemic. Fauci should continue with his competent leadership just as he has been doing for the entirety of the pandemic. So we can’t think he’s done a good job overall and also criticize him when he says and does things that contribute to the ongoing politicization of the vaccine and have the effect of fewer people getting vaccinated rather than more? I welcome diversity of opinions (and diversity of sources) regarding his performance.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Apr 25, 2021 17:40:27 GMT -5
Top ten states (and ties) in percentage of total population18 years and older receiving at least one dose / percent of vaccine dose received that were administered. Data as of April 25
NH 59% / 92% MA 53% / 85% CT 53% / 82% ME 52% / 87% VT 52% / 87% NM 50% / 87% RI 50% / 81% HI 50% / 84% NJ 50% / 87% PA 47% / 81% CA 47% /80%
Bottom ten states in percentage of population18 and older receiving at least one dose / percent of vaccine dose received that were administered
WV 35% / 70% IN 35% / 70% AR 35% / 67% GA 34% / 67% TN 33% / 71% ID 33% / 75% WY 33% / 72% LA 32% / 73% AL 32% / 62% MS 30% / 64%
I think it fair to say that vaccine resistance is running pretty high in some of these states (measured by percent of vaccine doses received that are sitting for weeks on shelves) and it will be a struggle to administer at least one dose of vaccine to 50 percent of more of their population by June, or even July.
Total doses administered as of April 25th: 229 million Percent of U.S. population ages 18 and older receiving at least one dose of the vaccine as of april 25: 53.6% (This includes doses administered directly by Federal agencies, and not distributed to the states, which is why the percentage is higher than one might expect looking at the Top Ten table. Number of doses delivered but not yet administered as of April 25: 62 million
27% of the total U.S. population is now categorized as fully vaccinated, a percentage exceeded by the Seychelles, Israel, Chile Bahrain, and Monaco. 2.8 percent of the Canadian population is fully vaccinated. Of the 229 million doses administered in the U.S. over 220 million are of the most effective vaccines: Pfizer and Moderna. I believe only Israel does better in that regard.
I fail to understand why Dr. Fauci is being vilified in the face of what seems to be a very successful vaccination effort, a truly tremendous endeavor and achievement in which the previous Administration can rightfully take some credit.
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Post by HC92 on Apr 25, 2021 17:41:57 GMT -5
So we can’t think he’s done a good job overall and also criticize him when he says and does things that contribute to the ongoing politicization of the vaccine and have the effect of fewer people getting vaccinated rather than more? That last clause is very dubious and practically possible to prove. He obviously is trying to encourage more people to get vaccinated. If he made one error in attempting to do what is best for our country, he is not perfect, as the article states. 1. Politicization of the vaccine definitely reduces the number of people willing to be vaccinated. 2. Fauci (among many others) has contributed in at least some way to that politicization. It’s hard to prove how much but it’s definitely there. . I hope we can all remember how the Left and the Right were talking about the vaccines when Trump was in charge and how those same people talk about it now. Lots of people with evolving positions based on who is in charge. More Dems are taking it now and fewer Republicans. If Trump had won again, more Dems would be skeptical of the vaccines and more Republicans would be supportive. And therein lies the problem with with just about every issue in America today. Very few people actually try to go and gather facts to make a decision. Rather, they figure out what side they’re supposed to be on and go look for people and sources who agree with them. And there’s obviously no compromising on any issue for anyone.
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Post by efg72 on Apr 25, 2021 17:52:30 GMT -5
It is about trust in government and the press... For example If the real story about the Missile Crisis was known, then and today, well I am willing to bet the trust might have ended nearly 60 years ago.
For those that want to know more FOIA the NSA files from the late 70s on ships leaving the island....
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Apr 25, 2021 18:07:24 GMT -5
Over a year of polling, fewer Republicans than Democrats have consistently said they would get vaccinated. The gap between the two parties has widened this spring. This is somewhat surprising as Blacks have shown the greatest vaccine hesitancy. Demographics and politics of those most / least interested in getting vaccinated.Gender: male / female Race: Asian Americans / Black Americans Age: 85+ / 18-29 Education: Postgraduate / high school or less Income: Upper / lower Party: Democrat or lean / Republican or lean The percentage of Republicans or Republican leaners who intend to get the vaccine is the lowest percentage among the six categories: 56 percent. www.pewresearch.org/science/2021/03/05/growing-share-of-americans-say-they-plan-to-get-a-covid-19-vaccine-or-already-have/
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Post by td128 on Apr 25, 2021 18:12:22 GMT -5
There was a prior reference to Dr. Fauci’s work related to HIV/AIDS, any commentary on that entire topic is not complete without a reading of this 2013 commentary in Fortune magazine: Dirty Medicine fortune.com/2013/05/15/dirty-medicine/www.rauhpsychiatry.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Dirty-medicine-Fortune-Features-copy-4.pdfIn regard to the topics in another thread relating to social justice issues and racism, the statement in this commentary attributed to the board member of this pharmaceutical company should cause shock and awe of epic proportions. Our governmental regulators at FDA, NIH and DOJ were well aware of the criminal activities ongoing in this company for years before it was properly addressed. Navigate accordingly. A subsequent commentary relating to issues regarding drug resistance is an appropriate follow up. More highly educated individuals may likely be very well aware of these issues but for the rest of us more pedestrian and less educated, these reviews provide reason to pause when it comes to the use of unknown products relating to personal health. Will share in due course.
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Post by efg72 on Apr 25, 2021 18:15:33 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing PP
The key is getting a T cell vaccine that kills the virus and then telling the people I why it works. We have failed in educating people with the right information, but we still have a chance to get it right
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Apr 25, 2021 18:37:14 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing PP The key is getting a T cell vaccine that kills the virus and then telling the people I why it works. We have failed in educating people with the right information, but we still have a chance to get it right That Pew poll asked whether science had a mostly positive effect on society, equally positive and negative effect, or mostly negative effect. Percentages in each category were basically the same for Democrats and Democrat leaners between 2019 and 2021; e.g., 77 percent said science had a mostly positive effect on society.. For Republicans and Republican leaners between 2019 and 2021 Mostly positive: 70 -> 57 Equally positive and negative: 27 -> 34 Mostly negative: 3 -> 9 I am not sure how persuasive any claim or argument grounded in science will persuade those 43 percent of Republicans who are skeptical or very skeptical of science.
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Post by possum on Apr 25, 2021 18:54:01 GMT -5
60% of Republicans still believe the election was stolen and Antifa stormed the Capitol it's a cult not a political party they only believe the words of a morally corrupt con man.
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Post by efg72 on Apr 25, 2021 19:04:10 GMT -5
I thought we were engaging in a conversation about the health outcomes and the science of Covid
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Post by td128 on Apr 25, 2021 19:16:55 GMT -5
We were and are.
Some of the comments provide true comic entertainment although likely unintentionally so given the seriousness of the topic.
I hope somebody’s keeping notes.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Apr 25, 2021 19:22:00 GMT -5
This board is so much more sedate and enjoyable now that we no longer engage in political discussions
td 128 is right on the money: it can be entertaining to see people make fools of themselves
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Apr 26, 2021 14:03:41 GMT -5
Washington Post / ABC poll on vaccines; polling April 18-21. Majority of adults (70+ percent) view Pfizer and Moderna vaccines as safe. Only 46 percent view the J&J vaccine as safe. I view this as a fairly sophisticated perception and indicating that people are actively following the news with respect to these vaccines (and assuming that those polled were not first asked about their general vaccine knowledge). www.washingtonpost.com/health/poll-johnson-johnson-vaccine/2021/04/26/a1085b26-a3ad-11eb-a774-7b47ceb36ee8_story.htmlAs it is, relatively few Americans will probably get a J&J vaccine as the current stock was produced overseas, and U.S. production at J&J's contractor facility in Baltimore was stopped after inspections of the plant found glaring deficiencies. This plant may never get back on-line in time to have an impact. Merck is gearing up to produce the J&J vaccine, but production won't start for weeks. The poll also looked at vaccine hesitancy. About 3/4 of adults either have been vaccinated or expect to do so. I believe this is the highest percentage yet. The most vaccine-resistant individuals are these: Young adults also are the most vaccine hesitant of any age group in the lean Democrat cohort.
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Post by longsuffering on Apr 26, 2021 16:55:52 GMT -5
Those young adults may not die often, but they have the capability to keep the virus circulating, mutating, becoming craftier and eventually developing a vaccine resistant strain that runs through older Americans like a warm knife through butter.
Or maybe these young Einsteins will follow social distancing and mask wearing for the rest of their lives and never harm anyone. 🤔
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Post by clmetsfan on Apr 28, 2021 8:44:15 GMT -5
Those young adults may not die often, but they have the capability to keep the virus circulating, mutating, becoming craftier and eventually developing a vaccine resistant strain that runs through older Americans like a warm knife through butter. Or maybe these young Einsteins will follow social distancing and mask wearing for the rest of their lives and never harm anyone. 🤔 Yeah but like so many other Americans, they believe that their freedoms preclude them from doing anything and everything that might cause the slightest inconvenience to themselves (same reason people refuse to wear a mask). They love being citizens, but have absolutely no concept of the idea that citizenship comes with responsibilities to their fellow citizens.
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