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Post by Ignutz on Oct 1, 2021 7:22:03 GMT -5
Tough one to lose, but if he’s anything like his dad, he’ll do well, and we wish him great success.
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 1, 2021 7:27:59 GMT -5
Let's hope that the team does well enough this season to start us winning such recruiting battles.
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 1, 2021 7:42:50 GMT -5
Just a theory but anyone else think we will lose recruits with the horrendous record we’ve had lately.
I have also believed that “winning begets winning.” If you are a superior player and have confidence you can play for a solid team I think most would go that route. Not many even very good players think that they could join a very poor team and turn it around by themselves.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Oct 1, 2021 8:36:08 GMT -5
Let's hope that the team does well enough this season to start us winning such recruiting battles. +1 Nelson was fighting an uphill battle here, despite the family connections. Holy Cross was a dreadful program from when Logan was 5-6 years old. Hoping the influx of new talent can start producing results and getting us in position to bring in some guys like Logan with a dynamic young staff led by Nelson and Evans (who have already produced pretty remarkable recruiting results given what they inherited).
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Post by timholycross on Oct 1, 2021 8:53:19 GMT -5
Nothing wrong with a youngster choosing a better level of competition at a school that's very good to boot.
In this Portal Era, never dump on anyone if you can avoid it. Situations change rapidly.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Oct 1, 2021 10:56:56 GMT -5
Let's hope someone else of quality commits soon - looks like BU got a verbal from yet another big (according to their board).
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Post by bringbackcaro on Oct 1, 2021 12:16:25 GMT -5
Let's hope someone else of quality commits soon - looks like BU got a verbal from yet another big (according to their board). 3 things you can count on in life -- death, taxes, and BU bringing in impressive recruits that don't pan out. Despite impressive recruiting, over the last 5 years BU has only had 8 appearances on an All-PL team (1st-3rd) -- Mahoney (3), Whyte (2), McCoy (2), Alston, and have a record of .533 over that time (.540 in PL play). I could not think of a coach more fit to have a perfectly average .500 career record than Joe Jones (251-251).
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 1, 2021 12:56:57 GMT -5
Let's hope that the team does well enough this season to start us winning such recruiting battles. +1 Nelson was fighting an uphill battle here, despite the family connections. Holy Cross was a dreadful program from when Logan was 5-6 years old. Hoping the influx of new talent can start producing results and getting us in position to bring in some guys like Logan with a dynamic young staff led by Nelson and Evans ( who have already produced pretty remarkable recruiting results given what they inherited). I'm not disagreeing with you--I am optimistic about BN's recruiting but my jury is still out--but would be interested in the 3 or 4 top signings that support your case. Of course, it could be guys who have yet to play 1) 2) 3) 4)
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Oct 1, 2021 12:59:30 GMT -5
Let's hope that the team does well enough this season to start us winning such recruiting battles. who have already produced pretty remarkable recruiting results Who would that be?
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Oct 1, 2021 13:02:12 GMT -5
Fair point bbc. I just worry about the pool of quality bigs available.
Regarding sader1970's point about potentially losing out on guys not wanting to come into a losing program: I certainly think it could be a concern. On the other hand, it's kind of ironic in a way that Sean Logan is going to play for Bob M. at Davidson; if I recall, he had a real rocky start at Davidson. In hindsight, Davidson was smart to be patient with him. At some point, though, one does have to start winning. Whether it's through a charming recruiting personality, pure coaching chops or a combination of both, it needs to happen. Should know a lot more by the end of this year I would think.
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 1, 2021 13:13:14 GMT -5
Making no judgment on the players Nelson has recruited because for the most part many have not actually worked up a sweat in a Crusader uniform during an actual game.
So, they have "potential." But the record of actual results, so far, has been extremely poor.
It is up to him and his staff to prove that they can convert that potential to actual positive results. I don't want to hear how they are young, inexperienced, etc. because for the most part that is on him. (I firmly believe the flight from Mt. St. James was at least partially on him)
Bluntly, this is a "put up or shut up" season as far as I'm concerned. So far, the hiring of Nelson has not been Blossom's finest hour. Hopefully, this season will change a lot of people's minds - at least mine. The good news is that we start the season on a 2 game winning streak from last season and we better win our first game against Regis before we play BC,
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 1, 2021 13:21:12 GMT -5
Making no judgment on the players Nelson has recruited because for the most part many have not actually worked up a sweat in a Crusader uniform during an actual game. So, they have "potential." But the record of actual results, so far, has been extremely poor. Well, that depends on what you mean by "record." If you choose only to look at wins and. losses, you have a point. However, the transition of personnel to a team of D 1 talent is now well along and that is a good record. Also, with last year's strange schedule against some of the top PL teams, HC did end the season on a two game win streak. Also a positive. This is the year to add wins/losses to the positive side with an improved record. It is up to him and his staff to prove that they can convert that potential to actual positive results. I don't want to hear how they are young, inexperienced, etc. because for the most part that is on him. (I firmly believe the flight from Mt. St. James was at least partially on him) True enough. Several players realized they could not play ay the level he expected and moved to a place where they could better fit in at their level of abilityBluntly, this is a "put up or shut up" season as far as I'm concerned. So far, the hiring of Nelson has not been Blossom's finest hour. Hopefully, this season will change a lot of people's minds - at least mine. The good news is that we start the season on a 2 game winning streak from last season and we better win our first game against Regis before we play BC,
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Post by bringbackcaro on Oct 1, 2021 14:04:38 GMT -5
+1 Nelson was fighting an uphill battle here, despite the family connections. Holy Cross was a dreadful program from when Logan was 5-6 years old. Hoping the influx of new talent can start producing results and getting us in position to bring in some guys like Logan with a dynamic young staff led by Nelson and Evans ( who have already produced pretty remarkable recruiting results given what they inherited). I'm not disagreeing with you--I am optimistic about BN's recruiting but my jury is still out--but would be interested in the 3 or 4 top signings that support your case. Of course, it could be guys who have yet to play 1) 2) 3) 4) My comment was regarding recruiting as a whole. Compare the roster Nelson inherited (feel free to use offers our of high school and offers in the transfer portal) with the roster we have now. Everything from positional balance, other offers, athleticism, size, length, versatility, ceiling/potential is literally night and day. Virtually all of this was accomplished in the midst of a global pandemic, and for a program that had zero momentum when Nelson arrived in July 2019 (a less than ideal month to take over a program. Regarding superlatives: Top Signings (based on resume/competition): Gates, Louth, Martindale Players I am most excited about (either first time or following frosh-soph leap): Bo, Bubba, Luc 4-Year D1 Starting PG (multi-year captain?): RJJ A comparison of our current roster and positional versatility versus the 19-20 roster that Nelson inherited: Position Bucket | 19-20 | 21-22 | PG | Lowder | RJJ | Combo (1-2) | - | Luc | Wing (2-3) | Wade Butler Copeland Le Sann | Bubba Kenney | Super Combo (1-3) | - | Bo, Dorsey | Wing/Stretch 4 | Pridgen | Martindale | Stretch 4 | Niego Faw Verbeek | Lewis (?) | 4 | Sandy | Townsell | 4/5 | - | Gates Louth
| 5 | - | Rabinovich |
In summary, he inherited a roster with one PG (a me-first guy, currently heading to his 3rd stop), a bunch of slow wings, and stretch 4's who were allergic to the paint/rebounding. We now have a roster with basically infinite combinations, and the type of athleticism and depth that could cause serious problems for opponents.
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 1, 2021 14:21:53 GMT -5
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Post by bringbackcaro on Oct 1, 2021 14:25:33 GMT -5
Making no judgment on the players Nelson has recruited because for the most part many have not actually worked up a sweat in a Crusader uniform during an actual game. So, they have "potential." But the record of actual results, so far, has been extremely poor. It is up to him and his staff to prove that they can convert that potential to actual positive results. I don't want to hear how they are young, inexperienced, etc. because for the most part that is on him. (I firmly believe the flight from Mt. St. James was at least partially on him) Bluntly, this is a "put up or shut up" season as far as I'm concerned. So far, the hiring of Nelson has not been Blossom's finest hour. Hopefully, this season will change a lot of people's minds - at least mine. The good news is that we start the season on a 2 game winning streak from last season and we better win our first game against Regis before we play BC, Continue beating this dead horse of head-in-the-sand unrealistic expectations. Would be very curious what you think would have been a good enough record last year given the following factors: -10 of 16 games (63%) against the unanimous 1-2 in the PL preseason poll (BU, Colgate) -#242 in country in minutes continuity (38.6%) As a point of comparison on the KenPom stat above and the unanimous 1-2, BU: 69% minutes continuity (#21) .... Colgate: #65% minutes continuity (#43). For the past 10 teams who have won the PL regular season, the average minutes continuity has been 68% (#54) and only one team has been out of the top 100 or below 58% (Bucknell in 2015 -- 51%, #161). Not only was the experience on last year's roster extremely low, but it was extremely low coming off a team that was awful to start with. Brett Nelson (or any coach we could have hired in July 2019, other than Rick Pitino) had a better chance of walking across Lake Quinsigamond than turning this program around in <2 years.
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Post by Tom on Oct 1, 2021 14:30:57 GMT -5
Making no judgment on the players Nelson has recruited because for the most part many have not actually worked up a sweat in a Crusader uniform during an actual game. So, they have "potential." But the record of actual results, so far, has been extremely poor. Well, that depends on what you mean by "record." If you choose only to look at wins and. losses, you have a point. However, the transition of personnel to a team of D 1 talent is now well along and that is a good record. Also, with last year's strange schedule against some of the top PL teams, HC did end the season on a two game win streak. Also a positive. This is the year to add wins/losses to the positive side with an improved record. I'm not sure the transition of of personnel to D-I talent qualifies as a good record. I just don't think it's a quality metric to judge anything by. Too subjective for my taste. We can sit here and say the roster and culture have been upgraded. That may be true and we all hope it is true. We've heard hype about prospects for years. I just can't call subjective opinions about unproven players a "record" - good or bad I would say that ending a 5-11 season on a two game win streak is a positive trend. It still doesn't rate as a good record. I think your points are valid, but in my mind, laying the groundwork for future success doesn't count as a good record until that groundwork yields fruit. It might come back to our definition of "record", but mine is closer to 70's than RGS. At least I'm more optimistic about the process and hope for the future than 70. Probably more patient too ------------------- For what it's worth, I believe seven of the departed players found other D-I homes and 3 scholarship players who went elsewhere landed below D-I. Not 8 for 8 which you would hope, but also not like there was no D-I talent on that first squad
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 1, 2021 14:40:11 GMT -5
BBC-- thanks for your response and thoughtful analysis--very helpful in understanding your POV
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Post by alum on Oct 1, 2021 14:41:08 GMT -5
I would have been annoyed if we lost Logan to a PL or Ivy but I can't imagine him giving up a chance to play at Davidson--great school, program and coach with plenty of games within driving distance for his parents (though not as many as in the PL)
Too bad for us.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Oct 1, 2021 15:51:52 GMT -5
Let's hope someone else of quality commits soon. . . . Weather looks beautiful this weekend. Homecoming's as good a time as any.
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Post by efg72 on Oct 1, 2021 17:14:45 GMT -5
If we are still recruiting Tommy Haugh I would deadline him. He commits by next Sunday or pull the offer. If we do that more frequently I bet we improve recruiting. Players need to believe we value our offers so they do
If we are to get better we need to act that way- imho
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Post by trimster on Oct 1, 2021 17:35:00 GMT -5
If we are still recruiting Tommy Haugh I would deadline him. He commits by next Sunday or pull the offer. If we do that more frequently I bet we improve recruiting. Players need to believe we value our offers so they do If we are to get better we need to act that way- imho Logan and Haugh are very similar looking players and are almost identical physically. Perhaps the fact Logan committed to Davidson will significantly increase the chances of Haugh committing to HC.
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Post by efg72 on Oct 1, 2021 17:52:20 GMT -5
Agree but while we continue to under perform we might not be a desirable landing spot for our recruits. If we act as if we want them, but they need to decide now perhaps things improve.
The staff has done a good job with the 1-3 positions in terms of athleticism, the others take time to evaluate and then develop. If we act as if we are special others we are recruiting might think the same.
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Post by trimster on Oct 1, 2021 18:30:15 GMT -5
Agree but while we continue to under perform we might not be a desirable landing spot for our recruits. If we act as if we want them, but they need to decide now perhaps things improve. The staff has done a good job with the 1-3 positions in terms of athleticism, the others take time to evaluate and then develop. If we act as if we are special others we are recruiting might think the same. You seem pretty well versed when it comes to the hoop world. Is it common for coaches to place a time limit on a scholarship offer.
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Post by efg72 on Oct 1, 2021 19:22:52 GMT -5
On occasion - in this world today not so much
However if we want to control our destiny and build our path forward how we think of HC and the value of playing here might help change the mindset so recruits see a future with this staff and our program as a positive.
For example, McKillop at Davidson has a successful program and he lets his recruits know it. He deadlined one of my players, a big, who went to Columbia and played for a few years in Europe.
When you are recruiting from behind the opponents you want to beat, it might make sense to make yourself look different.
Mine is little more than an approach to consider, but defer to others to opine.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Oct 1, 2021 19:43:12 GMT -5
Agree but while we continue to under perform we might not be a desirable landing spot for our recruits. If we act as if we want them, but they need to decide now perhaps things improve. The staff has done a good job with the 1-3 positions in terms of athleticism, the others take time to evaluate and then develop. If we act as if we are special others we are recruiting might think the same. This approach makes sense in theory, but each situation may be different. I’m not entirely sure how many scholarships we actually have available, but assuming there is only one left, I am curious if we basically put all big offers on hold from committing until Logan decided. A risky move that may have cost us some guys, but the chance to get a special legacy kid who would have otherwise been out of reach was one that I think we had to take. Now that we have lost out on others while waiting on Logan, if Haugh is the last of our “Tier 1” bigs, is it worth the risk of turning him off by dropping a deadline on him? Maybe, maybe not. The staff has also done a really nice job in the spring, grabbing guys like Gates, Bo, RJJ, and Louth, so it’s not like we’re completely screwed if we wait out Haugh and he goes elsewhere.
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