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Post by clmetsfan on Feb 19, 2021 18:59:08 GMT -5
1. Some people wonder why it even makes sense to play it before sporting events. It's not played when you go to the movies, or before a golf match, etc. 2. There is a reference in the never sung second stanza that references slaves that unsettles people.3. For many black people the song represents the institutional and systemic racism that they deal with every day. Hence many athletes kneeling during its playing. Many black people consider Lift Every Voice and Sing the Black National Anthem and would like to make it the anthem for everyone. Maybe that's why we don't sing it? I don't understand why people would complain about the anthem when the portion of the song with an offensive reference is intentionally left out. On point #3, no one associated the anthem with oppression until Colin Kaepernick identified the anthem as his opportunity to protest systematic racism. I have no problem with that -- he had a peaceful message and that's how he choose to project it. However, prior to that I don't recall anyone specifically identifying the anthem as something that represented racism and inequality. Last time I checked, the union army representing the United States of America defeated the Confederate army, which represented a new republic that was being partially founded on continued enslavement of blacks. Did "no one" associate it with oppression before Kaepernick, or did you just never hear about that association before Kaepernick? You might want to Google the names Tommie Smith and John Carlos if you think Kaepernick is the first black American to use the anthem as an opportunity to protest racial injustice.
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Feb 19, 2021 19:42:57 GMT -5
Another problem I have with Cuban and the national anthem issue is that NBA teams would not allow expressions of support for the citizens of Hong Kong in their opposition to Chinese brutality. Anti-police rhetoric and kneeling for the anthem have been celebrated. It is unbelievable to me that criticism of a brutal communist dictatorship is not allowed, but you can criticize America all you want.
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Post by bfoley82 on Feb 19, 2021 20:06:07 GMT -5
Another problem I have with Cuban and the national anthem issue is that NBA teams would not allow expressions of support for the citizens of Hong Kong in their opposition to Chinese brutality. Anti-police rhetoric and kneeling for the anthem have been celebrated. It is unbelievable to me that criticism of a brutal communist dictatorship is not allowed, but you can criticize America all you want. $$$$ is the main reason. The amount of money the NBA loses in China is greater than the money they would lose from Americans boycotting. The Chinese government owns the media outlet and banned games from being shown on TV. The NBA had a 1.5 billion dollar deal in China over five years which is included in this article about WeChat. www.cnbc.com/2020/08/11/trump-order-banning-business-with-wechat-could-affect-nbas-china-deal-with-tencent.html
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 19, 2021 21:06:03 GMT -5
I like how the American tradition of playing the national anthem before sporting events gives amateur singers, often students a chance to sing in front of a crowd and get a round of applause. The talent level varies but the sincerity is uniform or why would they volunteer? I have never heard of an anthem singer getting booed. Except for Roseanne Barr and the crotch grabbing incident at Jack Murphy Stadium.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 19, 2021 21:50:56 GMT -5
Did Robert Goulet get booed at the Clay-Liston fight?
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Feb 19, 2021 21:54:56 GMT -5
Another problem I have with Cuban and the national anthem issue is that NBA teams would not allow expressions of support for the citizens of Hong Kong in their opposition to Chinese brutality. Anti-police rhetoric and kneeling for the anthem have been celebrated. It is unbelievable to me that criticism of a brutal communist dictatorship is not allowed, but you can criticize America all you want. It's all business. Where do you think the NBA sells more jerseys? Mainland China or the island of Hong Kong?
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Feb 19, 2021 22:00:26 GMT -5
Another problem I have with Cuban and the national anthem issue is that NBA teams would not allow expressions of support for the citizens of Hong Kong in their opposition to Chinese brutality. Anti-police rhetoric and kneeling for the anthem have been celebrated. It is unbelievable to me that criticism of a brutal communist dictatorship is not allowed, but you can criticize America all you want. It's all business. Where do you think the NBA sells more jerseys? Mainland China or the island of Hong Kong? I don’t know, do they sell more in the USA than China?
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Feb 19, 2021 22:02:33 GMT -5
Another problem I have with Cuban and the national anthem issue is that NBA teams would not allow expressions of support for the citizens of Hong Kong in their opposition to Chinese brutality. Anti-police rhetoric and kneeling for the anthem have been celebrated. It is unbelievable to me that criticism of a brutal communist dictatorship is not allowed, but you can criticize America all you want. $$$$ is the main reason. The amount of money the NBA loses in China is greater than the money they would lose from Americans boycotting. The Chinese government owns the media outlet and banned games from being shown on TV. The NBA had a 1.5 billion dollar deal in China over five years which is included in this article about WeChat. www.cnbc.com/2020/08/11/trump-order-banning-business-with-wechat-could-affect-nbas-china-deal-with-tencent.htmlMost of those who are adamantly against players protesting during the anthem stopped watching the NBA a long time ago. So the NBA isn't "losing" that demographic by encouraging these protests, putting BLM logos on the court and allowing social justice vanity jerseys. This demographic for the most part still watches the NFL (with the prominence of fantasy football, office pools and gambling platforms like DraftKings, it's REALLY HARD to be a 20-something to 40-something year old male in this country and NOT watch pro football) but waved bye bye to the NBA somewhere in between Jordan's "Last Dance" and LeBron's "Decision".
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Feb 19, 2021 22:08:55 GMT -5
Maybe that's why we don't sing it? I don't understand why people would complain about the anthem when the portion of the song with an offensive reference is intentionally left out. On point #3, no one associated the anthem with oppression until Colin Kaepernick identified the anthem as his opportunity to protest systematic racism. I have no problem with that -- he had a peaceful message and that's how he choose to project it. However, prior to that I don't recall anyone specifically identifying the anthem as something that represented racism and inequality. Last time I checked, the union army representing the United States of America defeated the Confederate army, which represented a new republic that was being partially founded on continued enslavement of blacks. Did "no one" associate it with oppression before Kaepernick, or did you just never hear about that association before Kaepernick? You might want to Google the names Tommie Smith and John Carlos if you think Kaepernick is the first black American to use the anthem as an opportunity to protest racial injustice. I just never heard about that association before Kaepernick. Remember I'm part of the demographic that was a young teenager in New York City in the wake of the September 11th attacks => when patriotism was so important that "God Bless America" replaced "Cotton Eyed Joe" (moved to the 8th) during the 7th inning stretch at Yankee Stadium. I was raised to think it was reprehensible to so much as leave your hat on during the national anthem before a Little League playoff game, let alone take a knee. Fast forward two decades and we now have US National Teams kneel for our anthem after standing for the anthem of Communist China. Times change.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Feb 19, 2021 22:31:48 GMT -5
It's all business. Where do you think the NBA sells more jerseys? Mainland China or the island of Hong Kong? I don’t know, do they sell more in the USA than China? NBA is in an embarrassingly bad spot in the U S of A. Ratings are down 45 percent in a decade. IMO, it's it the point where the league has already alienated so many of the classic All-American sports fans this century that the league almost has nothing to lose by going all in on the SJW angle. All the fans that they would have lost by disparaging the anthem and projecting 100% partisan political ideology are ALREADY GONE. Real sports fans recognize garbage when they see it and the truth is that the NBA turned into a heaping, steaming pile of trash long before LeBron James became an online political activist. It's a bastardization of basketball and has been for some time. Watching "The Last Dance" series on ESPN made me realize how awful a product pro basketball has turned into compared to what it was like as recently as the 1990's. And that's SAD given the talent and personalities the league has at it's disposal today. LeBron, Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, Luca Doncic, Kemba Walker, James Harden, Giannis, Jokic, Embiid, Lillard. And for the most part, this group of top players are decent human beings, regardless of your thoughts on their political views. I think now the league has the opportunity to gain some incremental viewership by getting "woke mob" types who aren't necessarily sports fans to buy merchandise, overpay for tickets and maybe watch games on their electronic device of choice. I also think TV viewership is down because of the type of fickle fan the NBA still has in its back pocket. The type of fan who doesn't have the attention span to watch a full game on TV (hence the ratings) but will simply watch the highlight reel dunks on theScore app while perusing the twitter accounts of their favorite players/personalities. This fan also won't buy a season ticket package but will overpay through the nose to sit in the lower bowl at MSG when one or several of the big stars come to town. And they'll cry if that player sits for any kind of health reason, because they didn't go to the game to see quality basketball, they came to see their favorite visiting player throw down a couple dunks after taking 8 steps.
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Post by bfoley82 on Feb 19, 2021 22:59:19 GMT -5
I don’t know, do they sell more in the USA than China? NBA is in an embarrassingly bad spot in the U S of A. Ratings are down 45 percent in a decade. IMO, it's it the point where the league has already alienated so many of the classic All-American sports fans this century that the league almost has nothing to lose by going all in on the SJW angle. All the fans that they would have lost by disparaging the anthem and projecting 100% partisan political ideology are ALREADY GONE. Real sports fans recognize garbage when they see it and the truth is that the NBA turned into a heaping, steaming pile of trash long before LeBron James became an online political activist. It's a bastardization of basketball and has been for some time. Watching "The Last Dance" series on ESPN made me realize how awful a product pro basketball has turned into compared to what it was like as recently as the 1990's. And that's SAD given the talent and personalities the league has at it's disposal today. LeBron, Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, Luca Doncic, Kemba Walker, James Harden, Giannis, Jokic, Embiid, Lillard. And for the most part, this group of top players are decent human beings, regardless of your thoughts on their political views. I think now the league has the opportunity to gain some incremental viewership by getting "woke mob" types who aren't necessarily sports fans to buy merchandise, overpay for tickets and maybe watch games on their electronic device of choice. I also think TV viewership is down because of the type of fickle fan the NBA still has in its back pocket. The type of fan who doesn't have the attention span to watch a full game on TV (hence the ratings) but will simply watch the highlight reel dunks on theScore app while perusing the twitter accounts of their favorite players/personalities. This fan also won't buy a season ticket package but will overpay through the nose to sit in the lower bowl at MSG when one or several of the big stars come to town. And they'll cry if that player sits for any kind of health reason, because they didn't go to the game to see quality basketball, they came to see their favorite visiting player throw down a couple dunks after taking 8 steps. Ratings for the NFL this year were down a 10 percent from 2019 season even with the pandemic going on. www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/nfl-ratings-slip-in-2020-remain-dominant-on-broadcastThe Super Bowl was the lowest rated since Super Bowl 3 in 1969 and the least watched since Super Bowl 40 in 2006. College Football National Championship game had the lowest ratings since the formation of the BCS. www.sportsmediawatch.com/2021/02/super-bowl-ratings-lowest-52-years-buccaneers-chiefs/Sports viewership across the country has been going down for years it isn't a "NBA" problem but more of an entertainment adjustment with streaming and other stuff to do.
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Post by ndgradbuthcfan on Feb 20, 2021 7:23:44 GMT -5
The Irish Anthem is sung before boxing matches in Ireland and was sung in Las Vegas before the Connor McGregor/Floyd Mayweather bout, as was the Star Spangled Banner. Not necessary but part of the show I guess. When my wife and I traveled to Ireland in the 70s and 80s, everyone in the pubs would stand up and sing the Irish National Anthem (The Soldier's Song) just before the pub closed at 11PM. Ireland was still a relatively new country at that point. It was nice.
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Post by Tom on Feb 20, 2021 9:13:27 GMT -5
The Irish Anthem is sung before boxing matches in Ireland and was sung in Las Vegas before the Connor McGregor/Floyd Mayweather bout, as was the Star Spangled Banner. Not necessary but part of the show I guess. When my wife and I traveled to Ireland in the 70s and 80s, everyone in the pubs would stand up and sing the Irish National Anthem (The Soldier's Song) just before the pub closed at 11PM. Ireland was still a relatively new country at that point. It was nice. At one point in the mid 90's, I was at a pub, not when it closed at 11:00, but later at 2:00 AM when the TV went off the air. Similar to the US before the days of 24 hour programming, they played the national anthem on the TV just before signing off. My American cousin and I decided to sing along. Not only were we the only ones singing, but someone came up to us and claimed they had never heard it sung in English before
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Post by newfieguy74 on Feb 20, 2021 9:58:56 GMT -5
I don't agree that the NBA is a "heaping, steaming pile of trash". I agree that it's changed, and I sometimes think there is too much reliance on the 3 point shot, but the league has never been more athletic or competitive. I'm a lifelong Celtics fan, and they routinely (pre-pandemic) sell out the TD Garden. The quality of play is very high throughout the league. Even Kevin Garnett wondered recently how he and his contemporaries would have fared in the league today (I think he would have been great). What is is that people who hate the NBA today are nostalgic for? I really dislike the phrase "woke mob". It's intellectually lazy. Who are these people, the "woke mob"? Please define.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 20, 2021 10:53:00 GMT -5
Hell, it's not even played before concerts, i.e. when people are actually there to hear music. Huey Lewis and the News opened with it during the Sports tour. At least in Providence That would actually be a cool custom if it just grew organically with no act feeling pressured to perform the anthem or not at the beginning of a show at Fenway Park or Yankee Stadium.
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Post by bfoley82 on Feb 20, 2021 13:03:54 GMT -5
I don't agree that the NBA is a "heaping, steaming pile of trash". I agree that it's changed, and I sometimes think there is too much reliance on the 3 point shot, but the league has never been more athletic or competitive. I'm a lifelong Celtics fan, and they routinely (pre-pandemic) sell out the TD Garden. The quality of play is very high throughout the league. Even Kevin Garnett wondered recently how he and his contemporaries would have fared in the league today (I think he would have been great). What is is that people who hate the NBA today are nostalgic for? I really dislike the phrase "woke mob". It's intellectually lazy. Who are these people, the "woke mob"? Please define. The people that hate the NBA no matter the era always want the previous generation saying it was the good old days. The 1980's had Magic and Bird with the end of Julius Erving's career and the start of Hakeem and Jordan's career but people wanted to go back to the days of Tommy Heinsohn and Bob Cousy. In the early 2000's, everyone wanted to go back to the 80's and that has continued until today. No one wants to watch the early 2000's day of physical basketball which was predicated on defense.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Feb 20, 2021 13:18:36 GMT -5
"No one"?
Speak for yourself.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 20, 2021 22:52:21 GMT -5
Did Robert Goulet get booed at the Clay-Liston fight? Who would ever boo those pipes?
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 20, 2021 23:26:56 GMT -5
Did Robert Goulet get booed at the Clay-Liston fight? Who would ever boo those pipes? Actually you are right, Goulet's pipes were rusty and slurred that night of the phantom punch in Lewiston, Maine. I couldn't find any video of it but heard some great down east accents talking about the fight while looking for it on YouTube.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Feb 21, 2021 9:40:30 GMT -5
I don't agree that the NBA is a "heaping, steaming pile of trash". I agree that it's changed, and I sometimes think there is too much reliance on the 3 point shot, but the league has never been more athletic or competitive. I'm a lifelong Celtics fan, and they routinely (pre-pandemic) sell out the TD Garden. The quality of play is very high throughout the league. Even Kevin Garnett wondered recently how he and his contemporaries would have fared in the league today (I think he would have been great). What is is that people who hate the NBA today are nostalgic for? I really dislike the phrase "woke mob". It's intellectually lazy. Who are these people, the "woke mob"? Please define. The people that hate the NBA no matter the era always want the previous generation saying it was the good old days. The 1980's had Magic and Bird with the end of Julius Erving's career and the start of Hakeem and Jordan's career but people wanted to go back to the days of Tommy Heinsohn and Bob Cousy. In the early 2000's, everyone wanted to go back to the 80's and that has continued until today. No one wants to watch the early 2000's day of physical basketball which was predicated on defense. Wrong.
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