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Post by Crucis#1 on Mar 15, 2021 2:54:36 GMT -5
The following article in Forbes is really telling about the precarious state of a college that many have said is rival, and HC should follow their lead regarding athletics. Guess the financial consultants would not agree regarding their stewardship of their institution. www.forbes.com/sites/schifrin/2021/02/22/college-financial-grades-2021-will-your-alma-mater-survive-covid/?sh=2476d19f4916An excerpt: Providence College is one of the most prominent schools in the bottom third of the rankings, sliding to a C-minus grade after posting a B five years ago. The Catholic school, located not far from Brown University, Rhode Island School of Design and Johnson & Wales, closed a $187 million fundraising campaign in 2017, but its dependence on tuition has only grown, with tuition and fees accounting for 79% of its core revenues in 2018, and its liquidity is tight. Last May, S&P revised its outlook on Providence’s debt to negative from stable, though it maintained its single A rating on its debt.
Forbes brings home a crystal clear message that life in Friartown, with a recent national championship in Ice Hockey, a new soccer facility for men’s and women and men’s lacrosse at Chapey Field at Anderson Stadium, and memberships in the Big East, has a debt issue. Maybe Father Brooks had insight and financial acumen that many have discredited. Father Sicard, the new president at PC has inherited a financial conundrum. Membership in the Big East has not been a panacea to PC. There is trouble in river city. The College of the Holy Cross has a A+ rating in the rankings. Father Brooks and Father Miller would be very happy with the peer group that Forbes currently places Holy Cross.
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Post by hcpride on Mar 15, 2021 5:29:46 GMT -5
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 15, 2021 7:35:30 GMT -5
Intriguing article
Holy Cross: A+
Note that Colgate, Lehigh, Bucknell also got A+ grades Lafayette A Boston U A- Georgetown B+ American U B Loyola C+ Fordham C
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bpob55
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 114
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Post by bpob55 on Mar 15, 2021 9:15:20 GMT -5
Holy Cross got a 4.32 out of a possible 4.5. 10% of the grade given was based on yield rate. Last year our yield rate was 27%(greatly hurt by COVID) and a perfect score was 52% or higher. This likely was the sector where we lost the most points.
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Post by nhteamer on Mar 15, 2021 9:31:32 GMT -5
Great post crucis.
I don't think our membership in the BE would have us tilting toward insolvency.
I believe it would have us in the top 25 instead of the top 50.
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Post by alum on Mar 15, 2021 9:54:45 GMT -5
Great post crucis. I don't think our membership in the BE would have us tilting toward insolvency.I believe it would have us in the top 25 instead of the top 50. Maybe you are right. Of course, it would have probably required a decision about whether to drop football or to allow all other men's sports to be the doormats of the BE. We should be pleased that the administration and trustees have been good stewards of the College but as we see with Providence, things can change quickly.
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Post by nhteamer on Mar 15, 2021 10:28:55 GMT -5
we wouldn't have been doormats.
Direct 1st person quote from Jim Calhoun: "when I got hired all see Rowe asked was that I keep up with Holy Cross."
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Post by hcpride on Mar 15, 2021 10:44:37 GMT -5
Or maybe we could have declined the Big East, abandoned all sports, and doubled down on song and dance. The Juilliard School is ranked way above us (at 27 to our 50) in this particular rating. Brooksie blew it 🙂.
But seriously, I’m all for any ranking that puts us (A+) over Boston College (A), Villanova (A-), and Georgetown (B+).
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Post by alum on Mar 15, 2021 10:45:03 GMT -5
we wouldn't have been doormats. Direct 1st person quote from Jim Calhoun: "when I got hired all see Rowe asked was that I keep up with Holy Cross." I wasn't suggesting we would have been doormats in basketball, just every other men's sport. All would have been non scholarship in order to comply with Title IX. We could have competed in all sports by dropping football--as Nova did for a few years. As you know PC, St John's, Georgetown, Seton Hall all were non football schools at the time. I suppose we could have dropped a bunch of men's minor sports and kept football, but I imagine there was some minimum.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Mar 15, 2021 11:21:51 GMT -5
Great post crucis. I don't think our membership in the BE would have us tilting toward insolvency. I believe it would have us in the top 25 instead of the top 50. Maybe not towards insolvency, but to a surprise, that after reading Forbes, the Big East did not provide a financial bonanza, for all of its members that many would have thought. The A+ rating we can take to the bank. The rating should be heralded when asked if we have a business school. The answer is no, however, HC knows financially how to run a college. Dr David Chu can use the rating when discussing the Ciocca Pre business program. Maybe a little more gravitas for the college than where we finish in a given athletic conference. I do believe the Big East has provide a great marketing tool for several schools such as Villanova, Georgetown and several of its former members in Big East 1.
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Post by Tom on Mar 15, 2021 11:43:59 GMT -5
we wouldn't have been doormats. Direct 1st person quote from Jim Calhoun: "when I got hired all see Rowe asked was that I keep up with Holy Cross." I wasn't suggesting we would have been doormats in basketball, just every other men's sport. All would have been non scholarship in order to comply with Title IX. We could have competed in all sports by dropping football--as Nova did for a few years. As you know PC, St John's, Georgetown, Seton Hall all were non football schools at the time. I suppose we could have dropped a bunch of men's minor sports and kept football, but I imagine there was some minimum. In addition to no football, PC dropped baseball sometime around the 90's
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Post by Crucis#1 on Mar 15, 2021 12:11:14 GMT -5
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 15, 2021 12:11:56 GMT -5
Hey-look what developing a powerful basketball program has done for Xavier of Ohio, up to a C+ in this financial ranking, for example.
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Post by matunuck on Mar 15, 2021 13:04:52 GMT -5
How about that Green Wave:
Among top-tier colleges, few have improved in financial strength as much as New Orleans’ Tulane University. The 186-year-old school, which is home to 8,600 undergraduates, saw a 46% increase in applicants from 2014 to 2019, and more applicants are making it their first choice—its admissions yield rose 14 percentage points to 33.5% in 2020. Tulane is ranked by The Princeton Review as third among colleges with the happiest students, and today its acceptance rate is approaching Ivy League territory at less than 13%. In the last five years, its financial grade rose from a B to an A-minus.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 15, 2021 13:19:09 GMT -5
Notre Dame GPA of 4.50 and an A+ (ranked #4) Holy Cross GPA of 4.32 and an A+ (ranked #50) Colgate 4.25 and A+ Bucknell 4.21 and A+ Lehigh 4.19 and A+ Lafayette 4.12 and A Boston College 3.92 and A (ranked #80) Boston University 3.82 and A Villanova 3.61 and an A- Santa Clara 3.44 and B+ Georgetown 3.31 and B+ Saint Louis 3.31 and B+ Catholic U. 3.24 and B+ American University 3.15 and B Dayton 3.14 and B John Carroll 3.08 and B Creighton 2.99 and B Saint Joseph’s (Philadelphia) 2.74 and B- WPI 2.83 and B- University of San Francisco 2.61 and B- Saint John’s University (NY) 2.57 and B- Loyola University (MD) 2.39 and C+ DePaul 2.37 and C+ Iona 2.37 and C+ Gonzaga 2.37 and C+ Xavier (OH) 2.37 and C+ Marquette 2.30 and C+ Fairfield 2.17 and C+ Assumption 2.09 and C Fordham 1.92 and C Seton Hall 1.89 and C Providence 1.63 and C- Merrimack 1.57 and C- University of Detroit Mercy 1.46 and D Anna Maria 1.27 and D Becker 1.25 and D (Closing)
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Post by rf1 on Mar 15, 2021 14:43:19 GMT -5
Providence has been doing a lot of building on its campus in recent years. It is now looking the best it ever has. They were able to close a good portion of Huxley Ave which divided the campus (they had bought a state facility on the other side of it many years ago) and use the remaining part of the road as a new entrance. They have built a new humanities, business, and fine arts center, chapel, and new dorms in the last 20 years. On the athletics side, they have built a new soccer stadium, basketball practice facility, softball field and made major renovations to their Alumni Gym and Schneider Arena (hockey). Not having to build or even contribute to a very costly 10k+ seat arena for hoops due to the generous welfare subsidy of RI taxpayers allowed them to make improvements to their campus. I would however still imagine they accumulated a great deal of debt. Given how reliant they are on tuition, they must have felt it was necessary to make their campus more attractive to be able to recruit the children of wealthy northeast families whose tuition money was needed. The school no longer caters much to RI as 90% of its enrollment comes from outside the state.
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Post by hceconhist on Mar 15, 2021 14:48:45 GMT -5
Crucis,
Like you, I certainly do not believe that joining the Big East would have served as a panacea for the school that some clearly want to believe. That said, if you want HC to have more nationally prominent D1 sports, the Providence model is probably the only path forward.
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Post by hcpride on Mar 15, 2021 15:17:40 GMT -5
/\ TBH I’ve never heard ‘panacea’, I have heard ‘better than PL”.
As far as Providence goes, they did successfully open up in the fall...perhaps that’ll pay dividends this admission cycle.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Mar 15, 2021 17:23:32 GMT -5
I am very happy that the Powers to Be, did not eliminate Football. Joining the Big East, particularly Big East 2, with charter jets for the basketball team, probably would have caused a number of sports to be eliminated. The cost of the charters probably takes a big portion of the TV revenue.
Creighton University has only six men’s teams, the bare minimum for D1. Marquette has only seven men’s sports. Without HC football, I would be miserable during the late summer and fall. Soccer does not cut it, on a Saturday afternoon, and I played varsity high school soccer in a city with an extensive catholic league program.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 15, 2021 19:12:41 GMT -5
Keep all our sports and hire good coaches on the way up.
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Post by hcgrad94 on Mar 16, 2021 19:58:05 GMT -5
Providence has been doing a lot of building on its campus in recent years. It is now looking the best it ever has. They were able to close a good portion of Huxley Ave which divided the campus (they had bought a state facility on the other side of it many years ago) and use the remaining part of the road as a new entrance. They have built a new humanities, business, and fine arts center, chapel, and new dorms in the last 20 years. On the athletics side, they have built a new soccer stadium, basketball practice facility, softball field and made major renovations to their Alumni Gym and Schneider Arena (hockey). Not having to build or even contribute to a very costly 10k+ seat arena for hoops due to the generous welfare subsidy of RI taxpayers allowed them to make improvements to their campus. I would however still imagine they accumulated a great deal of debt. Given how reliant they are on tuition, they must have felt it was necessary to make their campus more attractive to be able to recruit the children of wealthy northeast families whose tuition money was needed. The school no longer caters much to RI as 90% of its enrollment comes from outside the state. And even with all that they still have to buy their student body to avoid having empty beds.
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Post by DFW HOYA on Mar 16, 2021 22:26:41 GMT -5
I wasn't suggesting we would have been doormats in basketball, just every other men's sport. All would have been non scholarship in order to comply with Title IX. We could have competed in all sports by dropping football--as Nova did for a few years. As you know PC, St John's, Georgetown, Seton Hall all were non football schools at the time. I suppose we could have dropped a bunch of men's minor sports and kept football, but I imagine there was some minimum. Not true. St. John's, Georgetown and Seton Hall all had football programs when the Big East was founded. Seton Hall dropped out in 1982, St. John's in 2003. I would also dispute this idea that the Big East would force cutting sports. In fact, Georgetown has actually added three sports since 1980 (soccer, softball, squash). At the founding of the Big East, only two of its teams even had full-time coaches (men's basketball, men's track). Today, all 30 sports have full time coaches.
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Post by bfoley82 on Mar 16, 2021 22:56:41 GMT -5
I am very happy that the Powers to Be, did not eliminate Football. Joining the Big East, particularly Big East 2, with charter jets for the basketball team, probably would have caused a number of sports to be eliminated. The cost of the charters probably takes a big portion of the TV revenue. Creighton University has only six men’s teams, the bare minimum for D1. Marquette has only seven men’s sports. Without HC football, I would be miserable during the late summer and fall. Soccer does not cut it, on a Saturday afternoon, and I played varsity high school soccer in a city with an extensive catholic league program. Creighton's soccer stadium is one of the top in the nation as it was built for 13 million in 2003. gocreighton.com/facilities/morrison-stadium/9They were able to get the UNC coach to leave Chapel Hill and go to Creighton. This article is from 2011 www.nytimes.com/2011/12/09/sports/soccer/bolowich-puts-creighton-in-college-cup-semifinals.htmlHe isn't there anymore but they are paying top money for their coaching staff.
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Post by bfoley82 on Mar 16, 2021 22:57:47 GMT -5
I wasn't suggesting we would have been doormats in basketball, just every other men's sport. All would have been non scholarship in order to comply with Title IX. We could have competed in all sports by dropping football--as Nova did for a few years. As you know PC, St John's, Georgetown, Seton Hall all were non football schools at the time. I suppose we could have dropped a bunch of men's minor sports and kept football, but I imagine there was some minimum. Not true. St. John's, Georgetown and Seton Hall all had football programs when the Big East was founded. Seton Hall dropped out in 1982, St. John's in 2003. I would also dispute this idea that the Big East would force cutting sports. In fact, Georgetown has actually added three sports since 1980 (soccer, softball, squash). At the founding of the Big East, only two of its teams even had full-time coaches (men's basketball, men's track). Today, all 30 sports have full time coaches. And Georgetown won a national championship in Men's Soccer in 2019 and national runner up in 2012.
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Post by alum on Mar 17, 2021 7:07:29 GMT -5
I wasn't suggesting we would have been doormats in basketball, just every other men's sport. All would have been non scholarship in order to comply with Title IX. We could have competed in all sports by dropping football--as Nova did for a few years. As you know PC, St John's, Georgetown, Seton Hall all were non football schools at the time. I suppose we could have dropped a bunch of men's minor sports and kept football, but I imagine there was some minimum. Not true. St. John's, Georgetown and Seton Hall all had football programs when the Big East was founded. Seton Hall dropped out in 1982, St. John's in 2003. I would also dispute this idea that the Big East would force cutting sports. In fact, Georgetown has actually added three sports since 1980 (soccer, softball, squash). At the founding of the Big East, only two of its teams even had full-time coaches (men's basketball, men's track). Today, all 30 sports have full time coaches. Ok. You are right. Seton Hall, St. John's and Georgetown did have football--D3 non scholarship football. So, you are making my point. Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I think that, in the late 70s, HC was giving more than the 60 scholarships they give today for football. The only way to comply with Title IX was to match those with women's scholarships and the only way to do that was by dropping men's scholarships. You point out that Georgetown has added sports and full time coaches since then. Again, you are making my point. While most HC teams other than hoops and football had part time coaches during that era, football certainly had at least 7 full timers. I realize that if HC had taken the BE plunge, it might have generated enough money to pay for everything after a time, but it would still have had the Title IX challenges. In the short run, with only $10 million in the endowment, it would have been a risk.
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