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Post by hcpride on Jan 7, 2022 11:52:01 GMT -5
Given the sudden realization amongst some pols and press that number of tests and number of infected are not particularly enlightening in terms of gauging the seriousness of Covid, perhaps HC can confine its Covid reports/stats to number of resident students in the hospital for Covid. And just put that single stat on a weekly dashboard. And publish the weekly totals going back the last 18 months. All sorts of conclusions (embarrassing and otherwise) might be drawn in light of those sort of numbers (I strongly suspect the most prevalent weekly number will be a very round one). Perhaps (gasp!) even guide decisions and protocols going forward.
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Post by hc2020 on Jan 7, 2022 12:05:25 GMT -5
Not a coincidence that HC announced these spring semester policies AFTER the deadline for making spring tuition payments. Full price for virtual learning. And don’t think that the February 4th return to in-person learning won’t be extended beyond that date… When was the deadline? January 1
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jan 7, 2022 12:18:24 GMT -5
The 96 percent of both the staff and the students who are classified as fully vaccinated are those with two shots of Pfizer or Moderna, or one shot of J&J. It does not include boosters.
HC ran booster clinics at the Hart in the first week of December. They ran out of Pfizer booster shots, and were nearly out of Moderna. I do not know how many booster shots they had on-hand.
HC also notes that those who received their initial shots in August may not be immediately eligible for boosters. Pfizer booster generally is five months after the second shot, Moderna is six months.
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 7, 2022 13:35:39 GMT -5
The 96 percent of both the staff and the students who are classified as fully vaccinated are those with two shots of Pfizer or Moderna, or one shot of J&J. It does not include boosters. HC ran booster clinics at the Hart in the first week of December. They ran out of Pfizer booster shots, and were nearly out of Moderna. I do not know how many booster shots they had on-hand. HC also notes that those who received their initial shots in August may not be immediately eligible for boosters. Pfizer booster generally is five months after the second shot, Moderna is six months. I'm concluding that the protection of the Moderna shot lasts 15-20% longer than the Pfizer shot. Wrong?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jan 7, 2022 14:03:48 GMT -5
The 96 percent of both the staff and the students who are classified as fully vaccinated are those with two shots of Pfizer or Moderna, or one shot of J&J. It does not include boosters. HC ran booster clinics at the Hart in the first week of December. They ran out of Pfizer booster shots, and were nearly out of Moderna. I do not know how many booster shots they had on-hand. HC also notes that those who received their initial shots in August may not be immediately eligible for boosters. Pfizer booster generally is five months after the second shot, Moderna is six months. I'm concluding that the protection of the Moderna shot lasts 15-20% longer than the Pfizer shot. Wrong? The Moderna shots were/are more effective because they have more of the active 'agent', the mRNA. Pfizer's shots have 30 micrograms of mRNA; Moderna's have 100 micrograms.
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 7, 2022 15:47:51 GMT -5
I'm concluding that the protection of the Moderna shot lasts 15-20% longer than the Pfizer shot. Wrong? The Moderna shots were/are more effective because they have more of the active 'agent', the mRNA. Pfizer's shots have 30 micrograms of mRNA; Moderna's have 100 micrograms. This is an example of despite being a faithful news viewer and reader I sometimes get better info on Crossports than CNN. Moderna booster is a half dose. How about Pfizer? A full dose to catch up?
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Post by Ray on Jan 7, 2022 17:03:46 GMT -5
Given the sudden realization amongst some pols and press that number of tests and number of infected are not particularly enlightening in terms of gauging the seriousness of Covid ANYMORE, perhaps HC can confine its Covid reports/stats to number of resident students in the hospital for Covid. And just put that single stat on a weekly dashboard. And publish the weekly totals going back the last 18 months. All sorts of conclusions (embarrassing and otherwise) might be drawn in light of those sort of numbers (I strongly suspect the most prevalent weekly number will be a very round one). Perhaps (gasp!) even guide decisions and protocols going forward. First, I added an important word that you conveniently left out.
But if you think any school is going to be embarrassed by having zero hospitalizations, you're wildly mistaken. Schools absolutely need to demonstrate that they can keep kids safe, and a big goose egg for hospitalizations is reassuring to parents (i.e. bill payers).
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 7, 2022 17:34:56 GMT -5
Given the sudden realization amongst some pols and press that number of tests and number of infected are not particularly enlightening in terms of gauging the seriousness of Covid, perhaps HC can confine its Covid reports/stats to number of resident students in the hospital for Covid. And just put that single stat on a weekly dashboard. And publish the weekly totals going back the last 18 months. All sorts of conclusions (embarrassing and otherwise) might be drawn in light of those sort of numbers (I strongly suspect the most prevalent weekly number will be a very round one). Perhaps (gasp!) even guide decisions and protocols going forward. But there's no test to guage if a positive test result from an HC student or employee migrates to infecting a vulnerable person not connected to HC a few interactions down the line with tragic results. To the extent Holy Cross is factoring in it's responsibility to the broader community, I salute them. But agree with your point that blessedly Covid is currently not a major health risk for most college students.
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Post by hcpride on Jan 7, 2022 18:01:10 GMT -5
Given the sudden realization amongst some pols and press that number of tests and number of infected are not particularly enlightening in terms of gauging the seriousness of Covid, perhaps HC can confine its Covid reports/stats to number of resident students in the hospital for Covid. And just put that single stat on a weekly dashboard. And publish the weekly totals going back the last 18 months. All sorts of conclusions (embarrassing and otherwise) might be drawn in light of those sort of numbers (I strongly suspect the most prevalent weekly number will be a very round one). Perhaps (gasp!) even guide decisions and protocols going forward. But there's no test to guage if a positive test result from an HC student or employee migrates to infecting a vulnerable person not connected to HC a few interactions down the line with tragic results. To the extent Holy Cross is factoring in it's responsibility to the broader community, I salute them. But agree with your point that blessedly Covid is currently not a major health risk for most college students. Yes, it is certainly true that respiratory viruses (Covid, Flu, and otherwise) may spread. And some folks are more vulnerable than others. In the case of Covid it seems to be elderly and heavier - in the case of Flu it seems to be infants/toddlers and the elderly. There is no denying that an infected and less vulnerable person might be a part of a respiratory chain of transmission that infects and then moves through a more vulnerable person. In fact, since this particular virus may have started with one lab leak in Wuhan, all of us might be involved in the same (rather intertwined and complex) chain of transmission. Without knowing it.😱 Forever. And, of course, the lab might leak again. Scary thought.
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Post by hcpride on Jan 8, 2022 6:56:40 GMT -5
Given the sudden realization amongst some pols and press that number of tests and number of infected are not particularly enlightening in terms of gauging the seriousness of Covid, perhaps HC can confine its Covid reports/stats to number of resident students in the hospital for Covid. And just put that single stat on a weekly dashboard. And publish the weekly totals going back the last 18 months. All sorts of conclusions (embarrassing and otherwise) might be drawn in light of those sort of numbers (I strongly suspect the most prevalent weekly number will be a very round one). Perhaps (gasp!) even guide decisions and protocols going forward. First, I added an important word that you conveniently left out.
But if you think any school is going to be embarrassed by having zero hospitalizations, you're wildly mistaken. Schools absolutely need to demonstrate that they can keep kids safe, and a big goose egg for hospitalizations is reassuring to parents (i.e. bill payers).
LOL. Note my word ‘confine’. By that I mean ‘limit’ or ‘limit to’. The linked dashboard is the opposite. No suggestion the resident students in the hospital due to Covid number is necessarily a secret (again the word is ‘confine’, not ‘unveil’). No suggestion a string of weekly zeroes (for example) stretching back 18 months would be in and of itself embarrassing. To the contrary, parents already expect - since it’s college students and Covid - many zeroes. Note the word ‘conclusions’. As in, one might conclude the mental health costs of certain Covid restrictions outweigh the benefit. College parents (the bill payers) are quite concerned with the damaging effects of the Covid restrictions and mandates placed on the students: www.bostonglobe.com/2021/12/18/metro/urgency-is-greater-than-it-has-ever-been-four-suicides-rock-wpi-campus-colleges-grapple-with-student-mental-health-concerns/?outputType=ampwww.nytimes.com/2021/12/22/us/covid-college-mental-health-suicide.html
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jan 8, 2022 18:16:31 GMT -5
Pretty sure the number of suicides among college students during the pandemic dwarfs the number of those who died of COVID.
Safe to say that campus COVID restrictions across the board have resulted in a net loss of life.
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 8, 2022 18:20:56 GMT -5
"Safe to say" that Covid restrictions are a cause of suicides? Where did you get that info?
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Post by hcpride on Jan 8, 2022 18:47:27 GMT -5
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Post by bfoley82 on Jan 9, 2022 12:02:55 GMT -5
"Safe to say" that Covid restrictions are a cause of suicides? Where did you get that info? Suicide rates were down according to this in college students in 2020 amp.usatoday.com/amp/6248176001
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 9, 2022 12:45:20 GMT -5
Read the article Foley linked but didn't see College students specifically but did see this:
Years ago I read that suicides don't happen as much when things are bleakest but a contradiction in logic rather more often happened when there was "light at the end of the tunnel." I guess that's why we don't hear much about suicides in countries where people are starving to death or so much after hurricanes, earthquakes, etc.
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Post by hcpride on Jan 9, 2022 12:51:47 GMT -5
Pretty sure the number of suicides among college students during the pandemic dwarfs the number of those who died of COVID. Safe to say that campus COVID restrictions across the board have resulted in a net loss of life. It is very very difficult for some folks to accept the fact that Covid restrictions on resident college students were and are quite damaging to the mental health of some students. And that these serious mental health difficulties may have led to or contributed to student suicides. The very restrictions placed on the not-at-risk kids may have had VERY unfortunate (and, of course, unintended) effects on the kids themselves. In other words, they harmed student safety. They were not 'erring on the safe side'. Those of us with students in college receive regular mailings on student mental health outreach and tragedies along these lines. As a matter of fact I am part of a Facebook group for parents at a quite well known university and this is, by far, the greatest topic of concern. Not Covid - the damaging Covid restrictions. I don't think folks without close ties to university young people are necessarily aware. That is why the very recent publication of these serious issues by The New York Times and The Boston Globe could be an eye-opener. This sort of information has been widely circulated on other media outlets the last year or two. Even the headlines may be shockers to some. www.bostonglobe.com/2021/12/18/metro/urgency-is-greater-than-it-has-ever-been-four-suicides-rock-wpi-campus-colleges-grapple-with-student-mental-health-concerns/?outputType=amp www.bostonglobe.com/2021/12/15/metro/amid-omicron-colleges-are-recalculating-risks/?p1=HP_Inline_Related_Link Headline: Colleges consider more restrictions as Omicron outbreaks increase, but concerns about student mental health give pausewww.nytimes.com/2021/12/22/us/covid-college-mental-health-suicide.htmlwww.washingtonpost.com/education/2021/10/14/college-suicide-mental-health-unc/(Of course, this is not to say all all student mental health issues are caused and/or exacerbated by Covid restrictions nor is it to say the the most serious mental health events, suicides, frequently lend themselves to strict cause and effect.)
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 9, 2022 13:25:29 GMT -5
This is the most relevant of your comments. Unquestionably, though impossible to prove with data one way or the other, covid restrictions put a mental strain on students and non-students alike. Unquestionably, there is a real thing called "covid-fatigue." But suicide rates I believe are generally higher among college students than among their non-student peers even without covid.
And, data does show that the current dominant strain of omicron is much more transmissible but less severe than prior strains. But, it's all pretty much a medical given that the exponential rise in cases because of the increased transmissibility of omicron, even at lower rate of severity means more hospitalizations and deaths in absolute numbers even at a lower rate. We are seeing this in hospitalizations though death numbers are staying pretty level to this point and hopefully will remain so.
What boggles my mind is that so many people are still not getting vaccinated and boosted. The vast majority of hospitalized and deaths are among the unvaccinated. It has been proven both medically and statistically that these work to reduce severity. There might be room for more "liberal" protocols if we were closer to 90%-95% vaccinated/boosted population.
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Post by hcpride on Jan 9, 2022 13:47:37 GMT -5
This is the most relevant of your comments. Unquestionably, though impossible to prove with data one way or the other, covid restrictions put a mental strain on students and non-students alike. Unquestionably, there is a real thing called "covid-fatigue." But suicide rates I believe are generally higher among college students than among their non-student peers even without covid. And, data does show that the current dominant strain of omicron is much more transmissible but less severe than prior strains. But, it's all pretty much a medical given that the exponential rise in cases because of the increased transmissibility of omicron, even at lower rate of severity means more hospitalizations and deaths in absolute numbers even at a lower rate. We are seeing this in hospitalizations though death numbers are staying pretty level to this point and hopefully will remain so. What boggles my mind is that so many people are still not getting vaccinated and boosted. The vast majority of hospitalized and deaths are among the unvaccinated. It has been proven both medically and statistically that these work to reduce severity. There might be room for more "liberal" protocols if we were closer to 90%-95% vaccinated/boosted population. I hope you read the linked NYT and Boston Globe articles. Both papers (and WAPO) suggest there is sufficient cause for great concern regarding the link between campus student Covid restrictions and student mental health struggles (including suicides). It is understood this sort of information would make supporters of college Covid restrictions very uncomfortable. Of course folks should get vaxxed (I’m a flu vaxxer so getting the Covid vax and booster was a no-brainer.)
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 9, 2022 15:46:08 GMT -5
The Times article is behind a paywall. Read the WPI story. I believe I stated in words to the effect that Covid can be a contributing factor but there is not necessarily a direct correlation. Life was so much simpler and easier on campus way back in 2007 apparently. From your Post story: I'm not saying you are wrong and I'm right, only that this is more nuanced than covid protocols cause more suicides on campus. Like your sideview mirrors: "Objects (read: positions) are closer than they appear."
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Post by hcpride on Jan 9, 2022 18:13:39 GMT -5
/\ Yes, the numerous recent accounts (Globe, NYT, WAPO, and many more in other media outlets) are certainly clear regarding the mental health crises (their words) on campus. And clear on the isolating effects of Covid restrictions. Campus Covid restrictions as a primary or contributing cause of any of the college suicides are more suggestive than definite. (As I noted.) And, it appears, no comprehensive studies have yet been published.
Slightly off the topic but I cannot be the only one a bit surprised at the ‘4 WPI student suicides in 5 months’ as noted in the December 18, 2021 Boston Globe article titled: The urgency is greater than it has ever been’: Four suicides rock WPI campus as colleges grapple with student mental health concerns
In any case, erring on the safe side for the safety of the students is certainly warranted. Thus, it’s past time to lift the damaging Covid restrictions.
(Still awaiting studies showing what effect the damaging campus restrictions had on saving Covid lives but that’s another story.)
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 9, 2022 18:24:46 GMT -5
I will now withdraw from the field as the saying goes with the final comment that mental health has been an issue on college campuses forever and there needs to be a greater focus on it. Any suicide is tragic but erring on the side of safety, IMO, means following the science which when it comes to Covid is not black & white and evolves as more data gets converted into actionable information. Covid protocols is likely a factor, but not the only factor, in some college suicides (and non-college suicides as well). I would venture that there are also quite a number of campus suicides that have very little or nothing to do with Covid protocols as the articles referenced support that campus suicides were increasing before Covid showed up. But Covid sure didn't help the situation.
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Post by bfoley82 on Jan 9, 2022 19:02:23 GMT -5
/\ Yes, the numerous recent accounts (Globe, NYT, WAPO, and many more in other media outlets) are certainly clear regarding the mental health crises (their words) on campus. And clear on the isolating effects of Covid restrictions. Campus Covid restrictions as a primary or contributing cause of any of the college suicides are more suggestive than definite. (As I noted.) And, it appears, no comprehensive studies have yet been published. Slightly off the topic but I cannot be the only one a bit surprised at the ‘ 4 WPI student suicides in 5 months’ as noted in the December 18, 2021 Boston Globe article titled: The urgency is greater than it has ever been’: Four suicides rock WPI campus as colleges grapple with student mental health concerns In any case, erring on the safe side for the safety of the students is certainly warranted. Thus, it’s past time to lift the damaging Covid restrictions. (Still awaiting studies showing what effect the damaging campus restrictions had on saving Covid lives but that’s another story.) Cornell had six deaths in 6 months in 2010....https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/education/2010-03-16-IHE-cornell-suicides-16_ST_N.htm
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Post by bfoley82 on Jan 9, 2022 19:09:28 GMT -5
Read the article Foley linked but didn't see College students specifically but did see this: Years ago I read that suicides don't happen as much when things are bleakest but a contradiction in logic rather more often happened when there was "light at the end of the tunnel." I guess that's why we don't hear much about suicides in countries where people are starving to death or so much after hurricanes, earthquakes, etc. The study ended in July 2020 so might not be enough information in it. www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsrr/VSRR016.pdf
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 9, 2022 21:56:58 GMT -5
AOC has Covid with symptoms after her mask-less vacation to Florida. No one is safe.
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Post by bfoley82 on Jan 10, 2022 0:51:56 GMT -5
AOC has Covid with symptoms after her mask-less vacation to Florida. No one is safe. Everyone is getting it...be safe out there.
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