|
Post by nhteamer on Oct 25, 2021 10:39:56 GMT -5
can we go back to '74 and trade JEB for sister Jean; straight up?
|
|
|
Post by Crucis#1 on Oct 25, 2021 10:50:46 GMT -5
Contrary to many, who believe that Big East membership would have been a panacea to Holy Cross athletics ills, at Georgetown, there is a sentiment that Big East membership has detracted from Georgetown’s academic stature. There is a comment, “You are the company you keep”.......Where have I heard that comment before.....maybe 35 years ago, by person who was deeply concerned about elevating and maintaining the academic profile of Holy Cross. hoyatalk2.proboards.com/thread/32661/georgetown-apathy?page=1&scrollTo=941538Comment by Big”R” Us “I don’t think that the Big East Conference does our academic stature any favors. On the margin, partnering with Butler, Creighton, Xavier and others pulls us down over time. High school students that apply to GU are not looking at any of the others, except maybe Villanova as a safety. I wholeheartedly believe that Syracuse benefits from being aligned with Duke, Virginia, UNC and others in the ACC. You are the company that you keep.” Another comment by Happy Hoya 1979 “ I agree completely. The only value the Big East has is that it gives us a route to the AP top 10 and the final four as a member of one of the Big 6 basketball conferences. However, we have not been nationally competitive since the days of Greg Monroe and Otto Porter (who is now pushing 30) so the whole enterprise is unfortunately becoming questionable given the collateral damage to our academic reputation.” Comment by nbhoya “I can’t say I agree. I absolutely believe people associate your school, holistically, academics included, with the pool of schools you associate with athletically.” “One could argue it benefits the academically lesser than schools, ie. an Auburn is benefited by Vanderbilt more than Vandy is harmed. But the association still matters.”
|
|
|
Post by hchoops on Oct 29, 2021 8:54:26 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Tom on Oct 29, 2021 9:33:49 GMT -5
I take it UConn's affiliation with the Big East was like one of those scheduling two year deals that expires this year. Would it be football only? They literally have had only one year in the Big East for all their other sports, and now they're shopping again
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Oct 29, 2021 10:11:28 GMT -5
When you are drowning, you may clutch at straws (or anything else that may help you to stay afloat). Sounds like Conference USA to me.
|
|
|
Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 29, 2021 10:27:34 GMT -5
For those asking, yes this would obviously be football only.
|
|
|
Post by Tom on Oct 29, 2021 10:42:20 GMT -5
Wasn't obvious to me. Not sure what UConn as football only brings to any table. I suppose it would help Conference USA by giving all their members one more football win every year
|
|
|
Post by Non Alum Dave on Oct 29, 2021 10:50:03 GMT -5
CUSA needs warm bodies at this point, don't they (to avoid having to disband)?
|
|
|
Post by timholycross on Oct 29, 2021 10:56:31 GMT -5
It's clear from some of the articles that UConn's membership would be football only. All sports would be the college sports equivalent of Bagwell-for-Anderson (or Sparky Lyle for Danny Cater from that era).
They have to weigh whether or not 6-8 opponents, year in and year out; are worth it vis-a-vis what they have now.
|
|
|
Post by Non Alum Dave on Oct 29, 2021 11:06:57 GMT -5
It's amazing what all the dollar chasing over the years has done to that conference. If I am remembering correctly, the original version of the league had schools like Louisville, Marquette, St. Louis, DePaul, UAB, Southern Miss, Memphis, UNC Charlotte and a few others. Really good basketball league, with some geographical sensibility. But they keep chasing and chasing.....
|
|
|
Post by timholycross on Oct 29, 2021 22:28:07 GMT -5
There's no college basketball league that football didn't ruin in one way or another.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Oct 29, 2021 23:47:38 GMT -5
CUSA needs warm bodies at this point, don't they (to avoid having to disband)? Marshall holds the league's fate in it's hands supposedly. If they leave CUSA may have to raid the FCS ranks to survive as a FB league. "The Cooler" was not only a great movie starring William Macy, Maria Bello and Alec Baldwin about a guy who was so unlucky a Casino paid him to stand next to hot gamblers to cool them off, and the nickname Dan Shaughnessy gave former Red Sox First Baseman Adrian Gonzalez, it would also describe UConn if they joined CUSA and then it promptly imploded as a FB conference with the Huskies landing right back where they started.
|
|
|
Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 30, 2021 11:14:51 GMT -5
It's amazing what all the dollar chasing over the years has done to that conference. If I am remembering correctly, the original version of the league had schools like Louisville, Marquette, St. Louis, DePaul, UAB, Southern Miss, Memphis, UNC Charlotte and a few others. Really good basketball league, with some geographical sensibility. But they keep chasing and chasing.....More like they just kept getting poached by power conferences. The original CUSA you describe was a lot like the AAC is now in football. In the early 2000's they were the best of the non-BCS conferences. First they were poached heavily by the Big East in 2004 (Cincy, Louisville, USF). TCU left for the Mountain West. And then when the AAC was formed, then came another round. And of course, now they're getting poached from both sides with members leaving for both the AAC and Sun Belt. It looks like CUSA is on the verge of folding. Two weeks ago they had 14 all-sports members. Today they have 5. And 2 of those 5 are now begging to get into the MAC. Only way CUSA survives is if New Mexico State and UTEP can somehow convince 6-8 FCS schools to move up and join them. I just don't think the numbers are there.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Oct 30, 2021 15:16:23 GMT -5
It's amazing what all the dollar chasing over the years has done to that conference. If I am remembering correctly, the original version of the league had schools like Louisville, Marquette, St. Louis, DePaul, UAB, Southern Miss, Memphis, UNC Charlotte and a few others. Really good basketball league, with some geographical sensibility. But they keep chasing and chasing.....More like they just kept getting poached by power conferences. The original CUSA you describe was a lot like the AAC is now in football. In the early 2000's they were the best of the non-BCS conferences. First they were poached heavily by the Big East in 2004 (Cincy, Louisville, USF). TCU left for the Mountain West. And then when the AAC was formed, then came another round. And of course, now they're getting poached from both sides with members leaving for both the AAC and Sun Belt. It looks like CUSA is on the verge of folding. Two weeks ago they had 14 all-sports members. Today they have 5. And 2 of those 5 are now begging to get into the MAC. Only way CUSA survives is if New Mexico State and UTEP can somehow convince 6-8 FCS schools to move up and join them. I just don't think the numbers are there. With 6-8 FCS teams all at once they would be a "triple-A" FBS league.
|
|
|
Post by Crucis#1 on Oct 30, 2021 19:05:58 GMT -5
I agree regarding Georgetown’s preeminent position in academic excellence. Never a doubt in my mind. So we are on the same page.
My point to posting this above link is in regard to the Big East membership. For some, as noted by Georgetown Alums, the Big East has not enhanced the academic rankings.
Many on Crossports pine for the Big East membership. However, as noted from the Hoya Board, it’s current value to Georgetown as an institution is questionable to a few who would like to see Georgetown ranked higher in the USNWR annual college survey.
So, I would surmise, some would feel the same, if HC was a member of the current Big East. Some would say it is the MAAC, with a higher and better basketball profile, with higher expenses. The question just like at Georgetown, would current Big East membership detract from HC aspirations of being a top 20 LAC?
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Oct 30, 2021 19:19:23 GMT -5
Pretty sure GU would rather be in the Ivy League than the Big East but being Catholic, nominally anyway, that'll never happen. They'd take William & Mary before GU. Of course, they aren't taking anyone. But if they could, I'm pretty sure the GU administration would give up their lofty basketball status for the lesser, but much more academically prestigious, Ivy League.
|
|
|
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 30, 2021 19:37:17 GMT -5
I believe there is zero chance of the Ivy League ever inviting another school to join the conference. What could any school offer that the Ivy League members could f want?
|
|
|
Post by res on Oct 30, 2021 19:44:37 GMT -5
Pretty sure GU would rather be in the Ivy League than the Big East but being Catholic, nominally anyway, that'll never happen. They'd take William & Mary before GU. Of course, they aren't taking anyone. But if they could, I'm pretty sure the GU administration would give up their lofty basketball status for the lesser, but much more academically prestigious, Ivy League. You might be right that the IL would take W&M over GU, but it's probably moot, as I'm not sure they're interested in either, as you suggest. I had a brief conversation a few years ago with the then President of W&M, who was seemingly obsessed with Ivy membership, that they were being blocked by a school he refused to name. Helpfully, he noted that the school happened to be in Pennsylvania. On the general question, I would submit that if the success of the men's basketball team could have a positive effect on a school's academic reputation, it's an indictment of higher education in America.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Oct 30, 2021 20:08:34 GMT -5
Pretty sure GU would rather be in the Ivy League than the Big East but being Catholic, nominally anyway, that'll never happen. They'd take William & Mary before GU. Of course, they aren't taking anyone. But if they could, I'm pretty sure the GU administration would give up their lofty basketball status for the lesser, but much more academically prestigious, Ivy League. You might be right that the IL would take W&M over GU, but it's probably moot, as I'm not sure they're interested in either, as you suggest. I had a brief conversation a few years ago with the then President of W&M, who was seemingly obsessed with Ivy membership, that they were being blocked by a school he refused to name. Helpfully, he noted that the school happened to be in Pennsylvania. On the general question, I would submit that if the success of the men's basketball team could have a positive effect on a school's academic reputation, it's an indictment of higher education in America. "Frankly my dear, the Ivy League doesn't give a damn" about a college located below the Mason Dixon Line. The IL has symmetry, continuity and tradition. I can't see them expanding and thus watering themselves down.
|
|
|
Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 31, 2021 8:52:15 GMT -5
The only schools I could envision the Ivy League considering adding are the United States Naval Academy and West Point. Only 2 schools of comparable academic caliber that offer something the rest of the group doesn't have. However, both these schools were supposedly turned down by the Ivy League in the early 1980's. Around this time, Army and Navy started to realize their chances of ever competing at a national championship level in football were over forever and expressed interest in joining the Ancient Eight. They were rejected. This was also before the Ivy League was downgraded to I-AA so I seriously doubt academies would have interest in such a move now if invited. I don't even think Georgetown would give up the Big East for the distinction...maybe DFW Hoya would disagree.
|
|
|
Post by Chu Chu on Oct 31, 2021 9:41:04 GMT -5
I believe there is zero chance of the Ivy League ever inviting another school to join the conference. What could any school offer that the Ivy League members could f want? At one time, I remember that there was talk of Holy Cross going to the Ivy League. I sometimes imagine that they would like to broaden their historical base of rigid protestant founders by including Georgetown and Holy Cross, if they ever did expand. If that ever was an offer, I wonder what we would do.
|
|
|
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 31, 2021 10:10:09 GMT -5
The USA has become so secular that the Ivy League having no Catholic schools is no issue whatsoever, if it ever was one. I just don't see why the Ivies would want to dilute their prestige by adding members and I don't see any schools that have the money to compete with them and that would want to play that level of sports. I'll set the odds at 1,000 to 1 that the Ivy League will expand in our lifetimes. I think any talk of a school joining the Ivy League would come from the inquiring school, not from any member of the Ancient Eight.
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Oct 31, 2021 10:58:55 GMT -5
You’ll lay odds on about anything nowadays, KY.😊
I love the odds but I figure I might have 30 years left on this earth and even if I won, you might not be around to pay me off- or vice versa.😂
|
|
|
Post by hc87 on Oct 31, 2021 11:07:25 GMT -5
Army and Navy used to be with the Ivies in baseball (maybe lax too?) in what was known as the Eastern League.
As others have said, I don't see them expanding with other D1 schools or D3 schools with the academic prestige (MIT, John's Hopkins etc), wanting to add D1 athlectics across the board.
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Oct 31, 2021 12:04:24 GMT -5
The USA has become so secular that the Ivy League having no Catholic schools is no issue whatsoever, if it ever was one. I just don't see why the Ivies would want to dilute their prestige by adding members and I don't see any schools that have the money to compete with them and that would want to play that level of sports. I'll set the odds at 1,000 to 1 that the Ivy League will expand in our lifetimes. I think any talk of a school joining the Ivy League would come from the inquiring school, not from any member of the Ancient Eight. Just to put it on the record (again), the IL has had many individuals who were vehemently anti-Catholic over the years and I don't recall seeing anyone of their PTB say anything about stopping it...or that such comments / behaviors were inappropriate.
|
|