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Post by hcpride on Jul 3, 2022 11:35:35 GMT -5
Beginning with the Class of ‘24 HC offered 2 new scholarships classifications for students with records of high achievement. One requires the demonstration of financial need; the other does not. I think they are about 20k per year to HC applicants and may be persuasive for some of the higher academic kids weighing their options for college. Doubtlessly part of our recent efforts to raise the academic profile of our enrolled incoming class.
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Post by sader1970 on Jul 3, 2022 12:21:01 GMT -5
I attribute it ALL to the scholarships that the Class of 1970 made in our 50th Reunion Gift.😂
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Post by hcpride on Jul 3, 2022 15:45:51 GMT -5
PC is much more generous in grant money than HC. Now that college costs around $80k per annum, getting an extra $20+k grant per year makes a big difference for a family. So the kid might be saying hoops, but his parents might be saving $80-100k. I not necessarily disagreeing with you regarding academic grant money and I may be overlooking several statistical nuances but out of curiosity I eyeballed the 2021 -2022 CDS at H1 (Institutional non-need based aid, excluding athletic aid): PC 12.5M, ( 4,245 undergraduates). HC 8.8M ( 3,138 undergraduates) (Note: I went back to HC 2018-2019 CDS and our number was down at 3.7M...we've wisely and substantially ramped up academic merit aid in the competitive marketplace)
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Post by HC92 on Jul 3, 2022 19:35:33 GMT -5
Having just gone through it with my son, I believe HC and PC lag Fordham and Fairfield considerably in willingness to give merit aid to attract top students.
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Post by purplehaze on Jul 3, 2022 20:58:09 GMT -5
My daughter was admitted to HC but is now a rising senior at Fordham for the same reasons
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Post by mm67 on Jul 3, 2022 22:02:58 GMT -5
Negotiate? Why not tell HC Admissions: "We like your school. But you're going tj have to offer more for my son/daughter to go there. FU offered ... Fairfield offered ... Can you match? (Or,How close can you get to matching?)" In other words give HC a chance by letting them know of other offers.And, in effect by playing the offers of the schools against each other.. And the schools are similar in financial strength? Friend's daughter accepted by Princeton & Yale. Two schools with similar finances. She wanted Yale but Princeton offered considerably more money. He went back to Yale. They matched the Princeton offer. Daughter quickly signed with Yale. Take charge. Nothing is written in stone.
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 4, 2022 1:15:11 GMT -5
Negotiate? Why not tell HC Admissions: "We like your school. But you're going tj have to offer more for my son/daughter to go there. FU offered ... Fairfield offered ... Can you match? (Or,How close can you get to matching?)" In other words give HC a chance by letting them know of other offers.And, in effect by playing the offers of the schools against each other.. And the schools are similar in financial strength? Friend's daughter accepted by Princeton & Yale. Two schools with similar finances. She wanted Yale but Princeton offered considerably more money. He went back to Yale. They matched the Princeton offer. Daughter quickly signed with Yale. Take charge. Nothing is written in stone. This would have been a tough year to negotiate as the class was already oversubscribed. A family might have had more leverage if they said "We'll take a gap year if you substantially increase our financial aid package when Junior enrolls a year from now."
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Post by newfieguy74 on Jul 4, 2022 6:27:26 GMT -5
Negotiate? Why not tell HC Admissions: "We like your school. But you're going tj have to offer more for my son/daughter to go there. FU offered ... Fairfield offered ... Can you match? (Or,How close can you get to matching?)" In other words give HC a chance by letting them know of other offers.And, in effect by playing the offers of the schools against each other.. And the schools are similar in financial strength? Friend's daughter accepted by Princeton & Yale. Two schools with similar finances. She wanted Yale but Princeton offered considerably more money. He went back to Yale. They matched the Princeton offer. Daughter quickly signed with Yale. Take charge. Nothing is written in stone. Absolutely correct. Schools always have some flexibility to raise an offer. And contacting the school to negotiate is "demonstrated interest", which schools love.
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Post by bfoley82 on Jul 5, 2022 10:27:37 GMT -5
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Post by hcpride on Jul 5, 2022 11:09:08 GMT -5
/\ I think we upped our merit aid with PC in mind. That bright 34ish/1500ish northeast kid eyeballing Catholic schools denied at BC now weighing acceptances at PC and HC (and likely Fordham). 20 K from PC might be persuasive (not every instance or every time) but a matching 20 K from HC might tip things back in our favor. And those are the kind of kids we need to raise our academic profile.
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Post by alum on Jul 5, 2022 11:25:50 GMT -5
/\ I think we upped our merit aid with PC in mind. That bright 34ish/1500ish northeast kid eyeballing Catholic schools denied at BC now weighing acceptances at PC and HC (and likely Fordham). 20 K from PC might be persuasive (not every instance or every time) but a matching 20 K from HC might tip things back in our favor. And those are the kind of kids we need to raise our academic profile. I think you are right. I have to say, however, that the College still seems squeamish about marketing the merit money. They list it on the website with no guidance as to who might expect to receive it. Plenty of schools spell out criteria which qualify applicants for their various levels of scholarships. The merit money ought to be used to attract applications and, at decision time, get those top applicants in the door.
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 5, 2022 13:41:48 GMT -5
Caught between men and women for others (meeting every student's full need) and competing hard against regional rivals to stop the slide in the rankings (merit aid to the brightest students).
HC has been trying to emulate the wealthy elite NESCAC type liberal arts colleges while schools like Providence with no illusions of being a NESCAC type college are offering market based initiatives like the new School of Nursing and Health Science.
I love the new Prior Center for the Performing arts. But that prepares for .002 of the Economy while health care is 20% of the Economy.
I don't know what performing arts facilities PC has, but Providence like Worcester offers quality venues. Nothing wrong with putting new construction dollars to prepare students for the heartbeat of the economy and partnering with community resources for performing arts.
The Prior is pristine, but will it's acoustics be rated higher than Mechanic's Hall in downtown Worcester with it's world class acoustics? I heard Art Garfunkel perform solo there and the sound was sublime. Would love to see acts like that at the Prior but that need is being met in the community.
Not trying to tear down HC and understand you honor your donor's wishes. The Prior is a feather in our cap as a great liberal arts college. Just pointing out that PC seems to be defining itself as a great Catholic Liberal Arts college a little differently and perhaps Colby/Bates/Bowdoin aren't the only models HC can look to for emulation.
Cue Crucis#1 with some financial facts and figures to buttress HC.🙂
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Post by hcgrad94 on Jul 5, 2022 14:08:04 GMT -5
Would be interesting to see what PCs acceptance rate and discount rate are.
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Post by bfoley82 on Jul 5, 2022 14:29:04 GMT -5
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Post by bfoley82 on Jul 5, 2022 15:06:58 GMT -5
Maybe someday we can have a school president say he wants the college to be as good as its b-ball team. Certainly, having a college the basketball team can be proud of is a worthy goal - priorities are definitely in order at Providence. HC is what it is - a small, national liberal arts college. Some would say it always had "pretensions" of being a classy red brick New England college. Providence is a small regional university. HC by tradition, reputation & mission certainly is not Providence College and IMO it would not serve any useful purpose for HC to mimic Providence with a sports-heavy market driven regional approach. Sorry guys, Providence College just does not do it for me. Peace Providence is adding a Nursing and Health Sciences school. We all know Nursing is a major many students are heading to.
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Post by hcpride on Jul 5, 2022 15:57:59 GMT -5
Caught between men and women for others (meeting every student's full need) and competing hard against regional rivals to stop the slide in the rankings (merit aid to the brightest students). HC has been trying to emulate the wealthy elite NESCAC type liberal arts colleges while schools like Providence with no illusions of being a NESCAC type college are offering market based initiatives like the new School of Nursing and Health Science. I love the new Prior Center for the Performing arts. But that prepares for .002 of the Economy while health care is 20% of the Economy. I don't know what performing arts facilities PC has, but Providence like Worcester offers quality venues. Nothing wrong with putting new construction dollars to prepare students for the heartbeat of the economy and partnering with community resources for performing arts. The Prior is pristine, but will it's acoustics be rated higher than Mechanic's Hall in downtown Worcester with it's world class acoustics? I heard Art Garfunkel perform solo there and the sound was sublime. Would love to see acts like that at the Prior but that need is being met in the community. Not trying to tear down HC and understand you honor your donor's wishes. The Prior is a feather in our cap as a great liberal arts college. Just pointing out that PC seems to be defining itself as a great Catholic Liberal Arts college a little differently and perhaps Colby/Bates/Bowdoin aren't the only models HC can look to for emulation. Cue Crucis#1 with some financial facts and figures to buttress HC.🙂 You thoughts regarding the Prior Center for the Performing Arts have certainly crossed my mind. As far as our tradition of awarding merit aid (for athletic and academic achievement) there are definitely arguments for and against. And finally, the kids/parents see us as a good Catholic school and apply/enroll accordingly - I'm not sure our proud focus on the liberal arts is even a significant selling point.
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Post by rgs318 on Jul 5, 2022 16:02:19 GMT -5
It has worked at Fairfield for a number of years now. In NJ, a number of the athletic "power" high schools have started performing arts programs and put on first rate shows each year at their schools with students going on in fine arts and appearing in NYC. At this high schools, performing arts sell and I believe that (with proper promotion) it could also be the case with the Prior at HC, attracting students who see a future for themselves in performing arts.
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Post by mm67 on Jul 5, 2022 16:18:28 GMT -5
Performing Arts programs are quite common among premier liberal arts colleges. We'll see if HC pursues a more generic general education plan, Communications majors & the like. Doubt it, Obviously, it would it be quite a surprise if HC abandoned its high level National Liberal Arts standing and moved to a more common level.
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 5, 2022 16:44:47 GMT -5
With the new School of Nursing and Health sciences and being in Power BB and hockey leagues, PC is following the path of BC, minus the football. I like Coach Chesney's approach of "you can have it all at Holy Cross" so every school has their niche.
The Yale Drama School (in celebration of the largest gift in the history of American Theatre it is now the David Geffen School of Drama) has certainly achieved excellence and positive attention for our football patsy school down Rte. 84.🙂.
Maybe HC could optimize the Prior Center by eventually offering an MFA degree.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Jul 5, 2022 16:56:38 GMT -5
With the new School of Nursing and Health sciences and being in Power BB and hockey leagues, PC is following the path of BC, minus the football. I like Coach Chesney's approach of "you can have it all at Holy Cross" so every school has their niche. The Yale Drama School (in celebration of the largest gift in the history of American Theatre it is now the David Geffen School of Drama) has certainly achieved excellence and positive attention for our football patsy school down Rte. 84.🙂. Maybe HC could optimize the Prior Center by eventually offering an MFA degree. Or at least a BFA. I think the Prior is a brilliant addition to the campus. IMHO HC's status as a small liberal arts school is a much bigger draw than its status as a Catholic school. For many, (yes, including Catholics) the latter is a negative.
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 5, 2022 17:57:26 GMT -5
The Catholic Status and name might be a bigger burden for our new prized demographic from Phoenix and Denver who have to keep defining the college they go to when they are back home. In the local region, Holy Cross, "The Cross," "HC" etc., needs much less definition similar to BU, BC, Northeastern, UMass, WPI and so on.
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Post by hcpride on Jul 5, 2022 17:59:41 GMT -5
With the new School of Nursing and Health sciences and being in Power BB and hockey leagues, PC is following the path of BC, minus the football. I like Coach Chesney's approach of "you can have it all at Holy Cross" so every school has their niche. The Yale Drama School (in celebration of the largest gift in the history of American Theatre it is now the David Geffen School of Drama) has certainly achieved excellence and positive attention for our football patsy school down Rte. 84.🙂. Maybe HC could optimize the Prior Center by eventually offering an MFA degree. Or at least a BFA. I think the Prior is a brilliant addition to the campus. IMHO HC's status as a small liberal arts school is a much bigger draw than its status as a Catholic school. For many, (yes, including Catholics) the latter is a negative.You can test that theory by viewing our application overlaps and our cross admit schools. 1. The 4 largest (alphabetically) HC application overlaps: BC, Fordham, Notre Dame, Providence College. www.usnews.com/best-colleges/holy-cross-21412. Schools sharing (alphabetically) the most cross‐admitted students with Holy Cross (per the College Board). As listed on the HC website: www.holycross.edu/sites/default/files/AdminFinance/adminfin/ir/comparison_lists.pdf1 Boston College 8 Northeastern 2 Boston University 9 Notre Dame 3 Fairfield 10 Providence 4 Fordham 11 Stonehill 5 Georgetown 12 Univ. of Connecticut 6 Holy Cross 13 Univ. of Massachusetts / Amherst 7 Loyola / Md. 14 Villanova While there is a mathematical component to this, it does not seem as though the bulk of HC applicants are turned off from applying to Catholic schools nor are they necessarily cross-accepted at secular LACs. We may be in a situation that HC students generally apply/enroll despite the fact we are a LAC and not because we are a LAC.
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 5, 2022 18:08:37 GMT -5
Wow, apparently TPTB are chasing Amherst, Williams, Middlebury, Colby, etc. but our applicants aren't. There are no other undergraduate only liberal arts colleges on your list.
We may have a failure to communicate. And it may be saving the amount of applicants we do get.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jul 5, 2022 19:00:20 GMT -5
What makes you conclude that TPTB are chasing the NESCAC schools?
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 5, 2022 19:31:30 GMT -5
What makes you conclude that TPTB are chasing the NESCAC schools? PVR stating his admiration for what Colby has done and HC could emulate. TPTB firm decision to be undergraduate only and liberal arts only. The policy decision to maintain a full range of participatory sports, most on a non scholarship basis, as opposed to marshalling resources behind a few high profile sports and swinging for the fences in those sports which some schools we share applicants with do. Setting an institutional goal of climbing in the national liberal arts category where NESCAC schools are ahead of us and thus logical role model schools. Of course TPTB also have a strong commitment to D-1 athletics and a strong commitment to a Catholic, Jesuit identity. So perhaps I should say Holy Cross is a very unique and special place and leave it at that. It's just interesting that we aren't sharing applicants, to speak of, with the schools in our USNWR category.
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