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Post by hchoops on Apr 10, 2022 19:10:04 GMT -5
Without knowing the level of competition, the number of games he played, or the number of shots he attempted, 40% from 3 is good.
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Post by rgs318 on Apr 10, 2022 19:11:22 GMT -5
Well put...with all the appropriate qualifiers.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Apr 10, 2022 19:12:10 GMT -5
The lack of offers at this late stage is puzzling - but good genes, for sure.
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Post by rgs318 on Apr 10, 2022 19:14:22 GMT -5
The numbers of good players on the portal means there are players who are still without a landing spot, but are talented.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Apr 10, 2022 20:18:26 GMT -5
Maybe Jaden is a good example of a possible effect of both Covid 19 and the Portal. With players getting an extra year, and so many players entering the portal, and some transferrees not having to sit a year, college coaches may be holding back some scholarships hoping to land experienced and proven players. If in previous years D-1schools used, say, 1500 scholarships on high school players perhaps the number now is a few hundred lower, leavin a few hundred HS players waiting??
looking back I see that RGS captured 95% of what I was trying to say with 10% of the words.....
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Apr 10, 2022 20:18:49 GMT -5
What other schools offered him a scholarship?
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Post by Crucis#1 on Apr 10, 2022 20:21:38 GMT -5
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Post by Crucis#1 on Apr 10, 2022 20:30:50 GMT -5
Congratulation to Jaden in making a wise and informed decision to attended Holy Cross. Looking forward to seeing you repping HC wearing purple for the next four years.
Very happy to see HC reaching north of the border to broaden the student body with international experience. Hope we add more and keep the pipeline flowing with students from around the globe.
From reviewing Verbal Commits, HC has made an offer to Arden Begaj, 6-10, Markham, Canada, 2024 (HS SO), Bill Crothers Secondary School.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Apr 10, 2022 20:59:20 GMT -5
What other schools offered him a scholarship? He may have started playing for IMG in January. If so, he likely would not be on the radar of many schools. (His brother played for Northfield Mt Hermon for 3-4 years, so much more visible.) Its quite possible, IMO, that the staff at IMG were in contact with HC and several other schools about him. And its also possible, given the various quoted heights, that he had a recent growth spurt. IMG lists him as 6'6" 6'5", 215/ ----------------- From IMG He is on a team with three McDonald's All-Americans. So, at least two guards are ahead of him on the roster.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Apr 10, 2022 21:22:08 GMT -5
What other schools offered him a scholarship? He may have started playing for IMG in January. If so, he likely would not be on the radar of many schools. (His brother played for Northfield Mt Hermon for 3-4 years, so much more visible.) Its quite possible, IMO, that the staff at IMG were in contact with HC and several other schools about him. And its also possible, given the various quoted heights, that he had a recent growth spurt. IMG lists him as 6'6" The last part here is what could make this a very interesting get for HC. Based on the highlight tape listed above from IMG games, he was dunking like someone a lot closer to 6’6 than 6’2. Our program has been in the dumps for 13 years, and we are not in a place to be lining up a bunch of 3-stars. Kirkwood has the pedigree of being someone who could be the exact type of diamond in the rough we need. Rounding out our wing transactions, we lost Bubba & Martindale (two non-factors when we were playing our best basketball last year) and added Octave + Kirkwood. I like where we ended up here. How we close the Spring with PG(s) and Big(s) will be critical. Go Cross Go!!
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Post by dharry13 on Apr 11, 2022 7:30:35 GMT -5
How is HC excited about this pickup? I haven't seen any other school offer him. And why are we giving this staff the benefit of the doubt on this. This is exactly why they should have gotten rid of Nelson. Pickups like this could handcuff the next coach in. Rarely does a player with zero other offers pan out. Yes - there are examples of where it does - but it's rare.
I could very well be wrong. But this signing doesn't excite me at all. Because of a pedigree? Really? There are countless sons of superstars from the NBA that don't work out. Octave - yes - I'll agree that appears to be a good signing. 21 and 10 in his last game in a pretty good conference is legit. Kirkwood - no - but hopefully I'm wrong.
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Post by timholycross on Apr 11, 2022 8:09:43 GMT -5
...and Octave also may be a case of the young man not enamored w/the military life and/or the commitment afterwards; something that's a lot easier to rectify nowadays (but not a move kids in the past didn't make).
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Post by bringbackcaro on Apr 11, 2022 9:16:21 GMT -5
How is HC excited about this pickup? I haven't seen any other school offer him. And why are we giving this staff the benefit of the doubt on this. This is exactly why they should have gotten rid of Nelson. Pickups like this could handcuff the next coach in. Rarely does a player with zero other offers pan out. Yes - there are examples of where it does - but it's rare. 1) Nelson and his staff have done (at bare minimum) a very good job recruiting so far. (If you need evidence, please reference the other threads with people whining about all the talented players in the transfer portal). 2) How many offers did Jacob Grandison have in high school? How many offers did Colgate's starting lineup have in high school (see below for one example)? C) As I said in my previous post, our program has stunk for the last 13 years, including a decade before Nelson's arrival. We are not in a position to be winning recruiting battles for players with a ton of other offers. Using our 11th-12th-13th scholarship on a guy with a high ceiling who may have fallen under the radar before a growth spurt and/or his high school career being significantly altered by COVID (isn't he from Canada, who has had very severe restrictions?), is a good opportunity for us to potentially bring in a player who would have otherwise. been out of our reach.
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Post by hchoops on Apr 11, 2022 9:25:48 GMT -5
BN may have done a fair job of recruiting out of high school, but he has not done as well retaining some of these players
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Post by dharry13 on Apr 11, 2022 11:04:56 GMT -5
I don't care about a few diamonds in the rough. Yes - they are out there (Grandison). They are rare. It matters where kids are offered from. Because it's a consensus on the kids ability from other coaches. And there are also examples of people with a lot of offers who aren't very good - Martindale.
But generally the consensus is the more offers the better chance you have at succeeding because many coaches agree enough to offer you a scholarship.
Why can't HC go out and win recruiting battles? Because they haven't been good? Well then go get a guy who can recruit to the ridiculous facilities they have and the tradition of the program. I don't buy that line at all - they haven't been good so they can't win recruiting battles? Even the worst programs start somewhere.
If they've done well with recruiting then why don't they win? Maybe because the coach isn't good. You are making everyone's point. If he gets talent and he can't coach it up then he should have been gone already.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Apr 11, 2022 11:30:14 GMT -5
I went looking to see if Noah Kirkwood had entered the portal, and he has not. He has a fifth year at Harvard. I did come across this article on Noah in Harvard Magazine in January, detailing how Amaker had shifted him from guard to forward because of Harvard's frontcourt being thinned by injuries. Did he make first team all-Ivy playing out of position? Noah Kirkwood had offers from 'Nova and Virginia, elected to go to NMH, and Harvard. (It would appear the family prioritizes academics.) www.harvardmagazine.com/2022/01/harvard-basketball-star-noah-kirkwood-s-mid-season-pivotThe article described his father as being a basketball star at Univ of Ottawa. 85-86 season, Art Kirkwood led the team in field goals made, field goals shooting percentage 47.2%, and 69 rebounds. He was the team's leading scorer three straight seasons, best year was 86-87, averaging 20.8 points per game. He was a star player,, winning all-conference honors three years running, playing on a mediocre team that played about 15 games a season. I have to assume the head coach at IMG, having coached at Bucknell, is a straight-shooter, and wouldn't misrepresent to a college head coach on whether Kirkwood can play at a certain level, e.g., the PL I mean, in practice, Kirkwood is daily going up against McDonald's All American guards who have committed to Baylor and Alabama. Do they run him off the court, or does he hold his own?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Apr 11, 2022 11:32:24 GMT -5
1) to suggest that CBN and staff have done "at bare minimum" a "very good job" recruiting is just not supported by the facts. Referencing non-existent posts about how the great talent of our players in the portal is not proof by any means. The proof of very good recruiting is signing, developing, and retaining very good players and winning games.
2) The fact that some players with few offers have excelled in college is no guarantee that other players with few offers will be strong contributors. That's like citing Muggsy Bogues, Spud Webb, and Monte Towe and suggesting that signing a very short point guard is a real recruiting triumph.
C) I hope Jaden Kirkwood has a high ceiling but can't conclude that from what we have learned about him to date. I hope he becomes PL ROY and an All-PL player.
Loved your 1-2-C construct.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Apr 11, 2022 11:37:06 GMT -5
I have the same take on Kirkwood as I will on any other incoming freshman for the foreseeable future: I hope he someday becomes a really good player, but I hope it's a quiet, gradual development. No more PL ROYs that will end up getting poached. Think Roger Breslin and Gordon Hamilton (RIP) in terms of pace of development.
Somehow, someway (with this coach or a new coach) the program just has to get into a position where the juniors and seniors are doing all of the heavy lifting, and younger guys are developing behind the scenes. Yes, they've been good getting transfers so far, but I still think it will be dangerous to depend on that year in and year out.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Apr 11, 2022 11:58:18 GMT -5
In 2019-20, he was one of 32 Canadians invited to NCAA basketball academies in the U.S. He went to the academy at the Univ. of Houston.
Having difficulty finding records for the 2020-21 season, perhaps there was none. And the 2019-20 season was shortened? Plus the travel bans between the U.S. and Canada.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Apr 11, 2022 12:14:54 GMT -5
How is HC excited about this pickup? I haven't seen any other school offer him. And why are we giving this staff the benefit of the doubt on this. This is exactly why they should have gotten rid of Nelson. Pickups like this could handcuff the next coach in. Rarely does a player with zero other offers pan out. Yes - there are examples of where it does - but it's rare. 1) Nelson and his staff have done (at bare minimum) a very good job recruiting so far. (If you need evidence, please reference the other threads with people whining about all the talented players in the transfer portal). 2) How many offers did Jacob Grandison have in high school? How many offers did Colgate's starting lineup have in high school (see below for one example)? C) As I said in my previous post, our program has stunk for the last 13 years, including a decade before Nelson's arrival. We are not in a position to be winning recruiting battles for players with a ton of other offers. Using our 11th-12th-13th scholarship on a guy with a high ceiling who may have fallen under the radar before a growth spurt and/or his high school career being significantly altered by COVID (isn't he from Canada, who has had very severe restrictions?), is a good opportunity for us to potentially bring in a player who would have otherwise. been out of our reach. You would have crushed Carmody for this.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Apr 11, 2022 12:59:34 GMT -5
1) Nelson and his staff have done (at bare minimum) a very good job recruiting so far. (If you need evidence, please reference the other threads with people whining about all the talented players in the transfer portal). 2) How many offers did Jacob Grandison have in high school? How many offers did Colgate's starting lineup have in high school (see below for one example)? C) As I said in my previous post, our program has stunk for the last 13 years, including a decade before Nelson's arrival. We are not in a position to be winning recruiting battles for players with a ton of other offers. Using our 11th-12th-13th scholarship on a guy with a high ceiling who may have fallen under the radar before a growth spurt and/or his high school career being significantly altered by COVID (isn't he from Canada, who has had very severe restrictions?), is a good opportunity for us to potentially bring in a player who would have otherwise. been out of our reach. You would have crushed Carmody for this. Carmody's track record: bringing in questionable talent level and/or miscreants getting kicked out of school Nelson's track record: vastly improving the talent level on the roster, but losing too many guys to the transfer portal But great comparison!
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Post by dharry13 on Apr 11, 2022 13:05:30 GMT -5
Vastly improving the talent on the roster and leading to 3 wins and 9 wins. Come on. There is a reason he's losing people to the portal - part of it is definitely today's culture; part of it is him.
Martindale - not good; Townsel - same; Rabinovich - same; Dorsey - can defend, but can't score (jury still out); Louth (jury still out, but nothing yet); He's had swings and misses like other coaches; and he's had hits too. His ability to coach just stinks.
Good riddance after 2022/2023
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Post by mm67 on Apr 11, 2022 13:17:58 GMT -5
Vastly improving the talent on the roster and leading to 3 wins and 9 wins. Come on. There is a reason he's losing people to the portal - part of it is definitely today's culture; part of it is him. Martindale - not good; Townsel - same; Rabinovich - same; Dorsey - can defend, but can't score (jury still out); Louth (jury still out, but nothing yet); He's had swings and misses like other coaches; and he's had hits too. His ability to coach just stinks. Good riddance a Is it ability to coach or his ability to lead, to inspire, to build confidence, to draws guys closer to him, the coaches and their teammates. How did Coach Chesney pulll HC football out of the dumpster? Peace.
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Post by hchoops on Apr 11, 2022 13:51:25 GMT -5
I went looking to see if Noah Kirkwood had entered the portal, and he has not. He has a fifth year at Harvard. I did come across this article on Noah in Harvard Magazine in January, detailing how Amaker had shifted him from guard to forward because of Harvard's frontcourt being thinned by injuries. Did he make first team all-Ivy playing out of position? Noah Kirkwood had offers from 'Nova and Virginia, elected to go to NMH, and Harvard. (It would appear the family prioritizes academics.) www.harvardmagazine.com/2022/01/harvard-basketball-star-noah-kirkwood-s-mid-season-pivotThe article described his father as being a basketball star at Univ of Ottawa. 85-86 season, Art Kirkwood led the team in field goals made, field goals shooting percentage 47.2%, and 69 rebounds. He was the team's leading scorer three straight seasons, best year was 86-87, averaging 20.8 points per game. He was a star player,, winning all-conference honors three years running, playing on a mediocre team that played about 15 games a season. I have to assume the head coach at IMG, having coached at Bucknell, is a straight-shooter, and wouldn't misrepresent to a college head coach on whether Kirkwood can play at a certain level, e.g., the PL I mean, in practice, Kirkwood is daily going up against McDonald's All American guards who have committed to Baylor and Alabama. Do they run him off the court, or does he hold his own? IMG has multiple varsity teams. Their National HS team is the one with the McDonald All Americans. Kirkwood plays on one of the Post grad varsities, the IMG Academics. I doubt he plays against the National team on a daily.basis.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Apr 11, 2022 14:00:20 GMT -5
I hope Jaden Kirkwood has a high ceiling but can't conclude that from what we have learned about him to date. I hope he becomes PL ROY and an All-PL player. That would end a streak. The last six Holy Cross players to win RoY never made all-PL 1st or 2nd teams during their careers.
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