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Post by midwestsader05 on Aug 24, 2022 8:39:06 GMT -5
Were you guys asleep during the 80’s and 90’s? Maybe it’s because I grew up in the heart of the old Southwest Conference but players entertaining and even switching commitments (usually for a suit case full of cash if you watch the litany of documentaries) was a regular thing. I still remember Dale Hansen (the staple of North Texas sports on the local ABC affiliate) reporting on these dramatics/theatrics all the time.
Enough with the “my word is my bond” was so much stronger before these 17/18 year olds came along. It’s classic reflexive nostalgia of the way one longs for what they believe things once were, not as they actually were.
And not saying I would do the same or even condone it but no one knows the context here. Just to take the other side, in this age of social media its become common place to acknowledge any accolade, if nothing else to publicly say “thank you” to the institution for the recognition. Now if someone tells me a kid is trying to parlay a PWO (or $$ offer) to squeeze more money from HC (or any school) in their first year, that would be a different story.
What if the opposite was in place. HC strikes out on the rest of our DB recruits and is forced to offer a kid late they think they can get. Or if Burton had a Change of heart on Hampton and wanted to come to HC instead. I think we’d be fine with that.
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Post by dharry13 on Aug 24, 2022 8:47:22 GMT -5
My opinion on this is - the kid has every right to do what he did. But in life as we all know - action come with consequences. Just like Freedom of Speech; you can say whatever you want but it comes with consequences.
If a kid wants to post his offer - God Bless him. It's up to the coaches to decide - based on that action, do we still want a kid like that. If they don't they simply tell him - cut the crap or they simply move on to the next kid. Personally - it's irritating to me because I think your word should actually mean something. That said he has every right to do so, and in turn the coaches have every right to say to the kid - sorry buddy - we are moving on from you.
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Post by midwestsader05 on Aug 24, 2022 8:56:25 GMT -5
Very true DHarry, I’m not on twitter (just peruse without signing up) but didn’t a couple of our coaches “like” the tweet?
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Post by dharry13 on Aug 24, 2022 9:00:15 GMT -5
I did see that Kyle Barnes "liked" the tweet. He's the only coach that I saw who "liked" it. It may be a situation where the coaches don't care that much. I honestly have no idea. I would think they don't love it, but what the hell do I know.
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Post by sader1970 on Aug 24, 2022 9:11:21 GMT -5
05, assuming you graduated in 2005, you obviously can't relate to some of us who were students in the 60's before you were the proverbial glimmer in your parents' eyes.
There's an old expression, I was your age once - you were never my age yet. We know it's a different world. Ethical behavior is passe. I get it. But I don't have to think it's right.
And, lest you think I'm an idealist, go back up and read my posts in which I said I don't put a lot of stock in ANY verbal commit until they sign a NLI.
P.S. If a recruit changes his mind, that's his business if the offer at the second school was made prior to his commitment. Not after. And I would expect Holy Cross not make an offer to any recruit who made a prior commitment elsewhere. Two-way street.
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Post by dharry13 on Aug 24, 2022 9:27:20 GMT -5
To put all of this in context. Over the past 4 years I'm only aware of a few kids de-committing from their verbal commitment. Hunter Helms, Quincy Watson, the TE from Colorado last year come to mind. I may have missed 1 or two, but I think it's max 5 kids. It happens rarely. To Sader1970's point - I haven't seen HC ever offer a kid who had verbally committed to another school. If you see it, it's because behind the scenes the kid has decommitted from the other school but hasn't posted it yet (Hopperton last year and Malik Scott a few years ago) come to mind as examples.
At the end of the day the Coaches will hopefully put an end to it, or if they don't care that much - allow it. The coaches have the say as they are the ones extending the financial commitment from HC.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Aug 24, 2022 9:33:20 GMT -5
You expect ethical behavior from .....Penn State football?
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Post by deep Purple on Aug 24, 2022 9:44:17 GMT -5
Could be that he's throwing it out there to leverage a step up in his offer?
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Post by dharry13 on Aug 24, 2022 9:45:34 GMT -5
It certainly could be possible deep Purple. Nothing is out of the question. It could be a variety of things, but that possibility isn't out of the question.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Aug 24, 2022 10:03:02 GMT -5
I did see that Kyle Barnes "liked" the tweet. He's the only coach that I saw who "liked" it. It may be a situation where the coaches don't care that much. I honestly have no idea. I would think they don't love it, but what the hell do I know. An optimist might conclude that Coach Barnes spoke with the recruit and learned that he was not contemplating accepting the offer to be a practice player for Penn State, That may be a far-fetched idea, but the optimist believes it. |
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Post by hcpride on Aug 24, 2022 10:08:20 GMT -5
It is an unusual move to make after verbally committing (posting about a PWO he has pursued and received).
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Post by HC92 on Aug 24, 2022 12:09:53 GMT -5
The last person I remember tweeting about other offers after giving HC a verbal commitment was Hunter Helms’ dad. That one obviously didn’t end well for HC who had committed their primary QB spot in that class to Helms who backed out rather late as I recall. Puts us in a bad spot as we’re building a class particularly at a position where you’re usually only taking one per class who is full scholarship.
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Post by dharry13 on Aug 24, 2022 12:21:45 GMT -5
Valid point HC92. That said - this one is different. Helms was a QB with other offers. Mullally is a WR who had no other offers prior to committing to HC and has tweeted about no others since - and WR are easier to come by than QBs. My guess with Mullally having no other offers is that he certainly not a full scholarship kid (just guessing but seems logical). If the kid wants to play this game good luck - hopefully the coaches put an end to it.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Aug 24, 2022 12:21:53 GMT -5
The last person I remember tweeting about other offers after giving HC a verbal commitment was Hunter Helms’ dad. That one obviously didn’t end well for HC who had committed their primary QB spot in that class to Helms who backed out rather late as I recall. Puts us in a bad spot as we’re building a class particularly at a position where you’re usually only taking one per class who is full scholarship. In his two years at Clemson Helms has thrown 25 passes. There's no indication that he's going to get off the bench, but I think Clemson did end up giving him scholarship, and if he's happy there what are you going to do? |
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Post by hcnj on Aug 24, 2022 12:30:19 GMT -5
My first reaction was like 92's. I reacted as a fan worried about losing a talented player. But, 05 captured my more rational thought. Tweeting an offer is a show of respect, even if it's not being accepted. Charly I'm sure is a great kid who appreciated a big time program thinking enough of him and showed his appreciation.
Jobity was a different story (I know different because never committed), he was perfectly frank that he was going to take any good FBS offer over PL Ivy. He leveraged publicly everything, I don't think Charly has anything but good intentions.
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Post by hcnj on Aug 24, 2022 12:38:53 GMT -5
Said differently, don't you think Charly or family would have contacted the staff privately if there was some other issue. I doubt he is communicating to our staff over tweets.
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Post by midwestsader05 on Aug 24, 2022 12:59:01 GMT -5
05, assuming you graduated in 2005, you obviously can't relate to some of us who were students in the 60's before you were the proverbial glimmer in your parents' eyes. There's an old expression, I was your age once - you were never my age yet. We know it's a different world. Ethical behavior is passe. I get it. But I don't have to think it's right. And, lest you think I'm an idealist, go back up and read my posts in which I said I don't put a lot of stock in ANY verbal commit until they sign a NLI. P.S. If a recruit changes his mind, that's his business if the offer at the second school was made prior to his commitment. Not after. And I would expect Holy Cross not make an offer to any recruit who made a prior commitment elsewhere. Two-way street. I think we might be writing past each other 1970. It sounds like you acknowledge my point that college football of the 80’s and 90’s was similar to the Wild West of today (even though the terrain of the frontier has changed.) I’m submitting 17 year olds and their parents of those decades were no more or less “ethical” than the kids of today. College football has been a big time business with massive economic incentives for decades. It seems like you’re splitting hairs about the decade and want to talk about the 1960’s. My father was a 2 year OL starter on a Power 5 program during 1968-1972. I grew up around many that played in that decade, am fortunate enough to have dozens of clients, friends and co-workers of that athletic era. I agree the game changed from the 1960’s to the 1980’s (not just 1960’s O-line coaches teaching the “chicken wing” blocking technique) I happen to believe (through tons of research) that most of the world as it exists today can be attributed to a series of global events that took place from 1979-1983. A book I want to write focuses squarely on the demographic, globalization, monetary/fiscal policy and automation/dawn of the digital era that transpired during these years. I’d be more than happy to throw in a chapter on college football after further due diligence haha! However, it sounds like you are hinting without overtly saying that HS/collegiate athletes (and society at large) was more ethical in the 1960’s than today. If that’s the case (and I don’t mean to put words on your screen) I’m going to need a lot of empirical data and not just a couple personal anecdotes. |
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Post by sader1970 on Aug 24, 2022 13:39:00 GMT -5
Our common ground, I think, is that neither of us like players or coaches poaching from another school.
Your background, you indicated was P5 and perhaps things were different there and then. Regardless, that was the past and neither P5 nor HC then has any bearing on today's Holy Cross and/or the Patriot League.
And for the record, let me stipulate that we don't know that Penn State is actually poaching our recruit.
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Post by midwestsader05 on Aug 24, 2022 14:13:08 GMT -5
It’s all about context and nuance to me (and we live in a world where nuance is in very short supply): I don’t like the idea of HC losing any commit but there is a wide continuum.
1) A partial kid posting a P5 PWO “offer” as recognition and a sign of thanks = I wouldn’t do it (one cause it’s a PWO) but don’t really care.
2) One of our top recruits (full ride) getting an understandably intriguing full offer (not PWO) that we couldn’t blame them for entertaining. Granted I’m biased and believe this new era of HC football is truly different (not many better places to play college football) but if Stanford, Virginia or Wake etc. (great football and great college) came knocking for one of our top recruits I would HATE it but I would also get it.
3) The one I have ZERO tolerance for would be a kid who’s likely a partial with us and still pursuing/posting offers from similar programs where they’ve maybe been offered more $$ (Academies, Ivy, PL CAA etc.) That would be an indication they are trying to leverage an offer for more money. We don’t need a kid like that. If they committed and then have a blow out Senior year and now more $$ offers, honor your commitment and come earn more $$ at HC (as has been done by many on the current roster)
My inclination is that this is very low on the priority list for our coaching staff all things considered with ~8 days to go till kick off and rightfully so. It should be for us as well.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Aug 24, 2022 17:06:02 GMT -5
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Post by breezy on Aug 24, 2022 17:29:21 GMT -5
Yes, Crucis#1, you are correct.
Also, two years ago, Holy Cross got a commitment from an OL from Texas named Austin Uke. Subsequently, his recruiting blew up and he got several high-level FBS offers. Interestingly, and to his credit, he eventually de-committed from Holy Cross and committed to Stanford (certainly on a full scholarship).
I looked him up on the Stanford football roster. He will be a sophomore this season, and saw no game action during his freshman year.
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Post by sader1970 on Aug 24, 2022 17:47:58 GMT -5
This was probably the guy that Tom Gilmore was telling me about but as I've posted previously, I was sure TG said it was BC that stole the player.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Aug 24, 2022 18:18:19 GMT -5
There is also Hunter Helms, who decommitted from HC and went to Clemson as a PWO. the Clemson bio even mentions Holy Cross. He is listed as a red-shirt sophomore, so I think he has three more years of eligibility. His rather interesting major is not offered by Holy Cross. clemsontigers.com/sports/football/roster/season/2022/hunter-helms/ |
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Post by dharry13 on Aug 29, 2022 12:45:28 GMT -5
Another commit should be coming. Signal from Coach James.
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Post by football44 on Aug 29, 2022 13:20:16 GMT -5
There is also Hunter Helms, who decommitted from HC and went to Clemson as a PWO. the Clemson bio even mentions Holy Cross. He is listed as a red-shirt sophomore, so I think he has three more years of eligibility. His rather interesting major is not offered by Holy Cross. clemsontigers.com/sports/football/roster/season/2022/hunter-helms/Three more years of watching from the bench! Big mistake by his father pushing that kid to take a PWO at Clemson. He could have had a great career at HC. |
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