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Post by WCHC Sports on Sept 29, 2022 12:42:58 GMT -5
To give you a spoiler for my next podcast, whenever I get the hour to actually record it, one of the questions submitted to me is about steroids and the HR record. I feel that it's often overlooked: for all the batters that were juicing or allegedly on steroids, there were probably a good number of pitchers who were doing the same thing. The game was dirty throughout.
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Post by HC92 on Sept 29, 2022 12:55:16 GMT -5
Who were the steroid pitchers who dramatically improved their numbers by taking them? I feel like every time I heard about a pitcher it was some scrawny minor leaguer who did not appear to have gotten the usual benefits.
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 29, 2022 12:55:59 GMT -5
There was an extensive discussion of this today on WFAN. One man defended it by saying "everyone either did it or knew it was going on." He spoke as if that made it OK. I don't think morality can be determined in that way, as if the number who do it make it somehow acceptable.
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Post by hchoops on Sept 29, 2022 13:01:25 GMT -5
Who were the steroid pitchers who dramatically improved their numbers by taking them? I feel like every time I heard about a pitcher it was some scrawny minor leaguer who did not appear to have gotten the usual benefits. Well, Clemens is often mentioned, but he was pretty good before the steroid period. Could the steroids have extended his high quality skills ?
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Post by hchoops on Sept 29, 2022 13:02:58 GMT -5
There was an extensive discussion of this today on WFAN. One man defended it by saying "everyone either did it or knew it was going on." He spoke as if that made it OK. I don't think mortality can be determined in that way, as if the number who do it make it somehow acceptable. Mortality definitely can’t be determined in that way. Now morality is a different story.
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Post by HC92 on Sept 29, 2022 13:41:28 GMT -5
Who were the steroid pitchers who dramatically improved their numbers by taking them? I feel like every time I heard about a pitcher it was some scrawny minor leaguer who did not appear to have gotten the usual benefits. Well, Clemens is often mentioned, but he was pretty good before the steroid period. Could the steroids have extended his high quality skills ? That’s a good one. Likely extended his career and made him better as an “older” player than he would have been otherwise. I just don’t think the roids had much of an impact on pitching overall and don’t really buy that the hitters cheating and the pitchers cheating kind of washes out.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Sept 29, 2022 14:19:24 GMT -5
I have firsthand, secondhand, third-hand? knowledge that Randy Johnson was using on the Yankees too. Remember, there was no clear evidence that Bonds ever "tested positive" and was caught by anybody at MLB. Not that they were likely looking at the time... But outside of who has been caught more recently, like '92 was mentioning, it's probably safer to assume that many used back then, and not all had to be nobodies to heroes. Plenty of people who had talent could have augmented it, or at least kept it longer than natural, by juicing.
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Post by Tom on Sept 29, 2022 14:48:03 GMT -5
The biggest thing I hear about pitchers juicing is recovering from injuries or even normal wear and tear. I'm not sure they add miles per hour to a fastball or put greater motion on it the same way steroids can add power to a hitter.
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Post by mm67 on Sept 29, 2022 15:43:32 GMT -5
Actually, it's a good century to be a fan of Boston sports. We deprived NYers are hungering for a win so that even one peany winning day sends us into the air in ecstasy. And, Bostonians look down from their heavenly perch upon us mere mortals.
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 2, 2022 15:15:23 GMT -5
With wins by both NY football teams (who do play in New Jersey), we have had another great day to be a NY Sports fan.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 2, 2022 19:43:09 GMT -5
I have firsthand, secondhand, third-hand? knowledge that Randy Johnson was using on the Yankees too. Remember, there was no clear evidence that Bonds ever "tested positive" and was caught by anybody at MLB. Not that they were likely looking at the time... But outside of who has been caught more recently, like '92 was mentioning, it's probably safer to assume that many used back then, and not all had to be nobodies to heroes. Plenty of people who had talent could have augmented it, or at least kept it longer than natural, by juicing. Bonds tested positive in 2003, the year the testing was supposed to be anonynous but list ultimately got leaked in 2009. But he never violated MLB drug policy.
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Post by Tom on Oct 3, 2022 8:08:22 GMT -5
In less happy news for New Yorkers, Judge went 1 of 7 over the weekend while Arraez went 6 for 14.
Giving up the home run to set an American League record isn't as bad as giving up the home run to set an MLB record, but Judge is still walking a ton lately in meaningless games. Also a chance the pressure of going for #62 is affecting Judge's ability to hit singles and doubles, If the games meant something, you can focus on the win, but other than getting ready for play-offs, the only Yankees stories are the AL home run record and the chase for the triple crown
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Post by clmetsfan on Oct 3, 2022 9:58:27 GMT -5
I have firsthand, secondhand, third-hand? knowledge that Randy Johnson was using on the Yankees too. Remember, there was no clear evidence that Bonds ever "tested positive" and was caught by anybody at MLB. Not that they were likely looking at the time... But outside of who has been caught more recently, like '92 was mentioning, it's probably safer to assume that many used back then, and not all had to be nobodies to heroes. Plenty of people who had talent could have augmented it, or at least kept it longer than natural, by juicing. Bonds tested positive in 2003, the year the testing was supposed to be anonynous but list ultimately got leaked in 2009. But he never violated MLB drug policy. Even if Bonds never officially tested positive, that's like saying that Tua cleared concussion protocol in Week 3. Ok, fine, but we also have eyes and common sense.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Oct 3, 2022 10:40:45 GMT -5
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Post by clmetsfan on Oct 3, 2022 11:24:51 GMT -5
Well, Clemens is often mentioned, but he was pretty good before the steroid period. Could the steroids have extended his high quality skills ? That’s a good one. Likely extended his career and made him better as an “older” player than he would have been otherwise. I just don’t think the roids had much of an impact on pitching overall and don’t really buy that the hitters cheating and the pitchers cheating kind of washes out. Yeah I think Bonds and Clemens are perfect comparisons. Both were Hall of Famers before they started juicing, which greatly elongated their careers and gave them unnatural performances at ages when most players are slowing down if not retired. Clemens even seemed to be on that natural decline when he left Boston in '96 at the age of 33, and then "somehow" proceeded to put together another decade that was almost as dominant, if not moreso, than his first. When a player is significantly better at 42 than he was at 32, it doesn't take a genius to figure out what's happening.
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Post by Tom on Oct 3, 2022 12:04:46 GMT -5
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 3, 2022 12:16:32 GMT -5
Bonds tested positive in 2003, the year the testing was supposed to be anonynous but list ultimately got leaked in 2009. But he never violated MLB drug policy. Even if Bonds never officially tested positive, that's like saying that Tua cleared concussion protocol in Week 3. Ok, fine, but we also have eyes and common sense. He officially tested positive. His positive test just happened to come at a time where MLB drug policy had not yet been implemented. Had his positive test come the following year, or later, he would have been suspended. Same with Ortiz and Pedro, both of whom tested positive in 2003 when it was supposed to be anonymous, but neither failed another test. Nor were Pedro and Ortiz ever linked to HGH shipments after that time like A-Rod and Bonds were.
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Post by hchoops on Oct 3, 2022 12:24:05 GMT -5
I saw Zim, when he looked like the picture on the left, get knocked unconscious at Ebbets Field in ‘55 I think Carried out on a stretcher. Crowd thought he was dead. Pre helmet of course
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 3, 2022 19:57:49 GMT -5
Take a look at the players Baseball-Reference lists as the most like Barry Bonds through the similar age: We'll start at age 26
Age 26= Grady Sizemore. Through age 26 Barry's career was most like Grady Sizemore's career through the same age Age 27= Bobby Bonds--Barry's day was a very good player but by no means a HOFer Age 28= Bryce Harper- has a very good chance of ending up a HOFer but not there yet Age 29= Shawn Green--a nice player but no Hall of Famer Age 30= Shawn Green
Age 31= Duke Snider--a Hall of Famer, for sure, so Barry's increased production over recent years is kicking in Age 32= Duke Snider Age 33 to retirement= variously Frank Robinson, Ken Griffey Jr, Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays--indisputably all-time great players
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Post by hcpride on Oct 5, 2022 5:09:33 GMT -5
ARLINGTON, Texas — Aaron Judge is the new home run king — at least to some people. The Yankees outfielder made history Tuesday, hitting his 62nd home run of the season in the Yankees’ 3-2 loss to the Rangers in Game 2 of a doubleheader to break Roger Maris’ American League and franchise record set in 1961 — and, some would say, the legitimate MLB record. nypost.com/2022/10/04/aaron-judge-hits-62nd-homer-to-break-roger-maris-record/amp/
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Post by WCHC Sports on Oct 5, 2022 6:26:46 GMT -5
He broke a team record. AL versus NL in the year 2022 is so much less relevant. A major sport still gives out two MVPs, two Cy Youngs, etc. Strange. The leagues are the same by rule. Next year, the schedules will be even more balanced.
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Post by Tom on Oct 5, 2022 7:30:11 GMT -5
Two things going on. First it's the AL record. Probably more people will care about that than care about the fact Steve Garvey holds the NL for consecutive games played.
Secondly, although not an official MLB stat, many people consider Judge to be the PED-free, MLB record holder. And to take that one a step further, consider the PED-free record to be the "real" record
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Post by Tom on Oct 5, 2022 7:31:08 GMT -5
The leagues are the same by rule. Next year, the schedules will be even more balanced.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Oct 5, 2022 7:49:04 GMT -5
It's strange to me that there is still this bifurcation of AL and NL. AFC and NFC in football mean little these days. It's more of a vestige of the AFL and how we arrived at a Super Bowl and not just the original NFL championship. I saw a handful of guys all hit more home runs than Judge. Judge's accomplishment this season is no less tremendous, no less valuable to his own team's campaign, and hardly less impressive. Still, it's not a record for MLB, and he's not the home run king.
AL versus NL records, when they come up, speak to the significance of the feat. Absolutely, the AL has been around for 120 years, and that HR mark has moved after 1921, what, only twice? Historically significant. But a record to me is that nobody did it better. I believe in team records to denote the best to do it in a certain uniform, but think we're trying to cut too finely with AL vs NL stuff.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Oct 5, 2022 7:50:13 GMT -5
Probably more people will care about that than care about the fact Steve Garvey holds the NL for consecutive games played. Great point. Who is the AL all-time hits record holder? It's NEVER mentioned. Pete Rose is the hit king.
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