necfbfan
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 78
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Post by necfbfan on Jul 24, 2023 10:12:10 GMT -5
Somehow UMass managed to go from the original Yankee Conference consisting of six land grant state universities that are the primary state university in their state to the MAC consisting of almost all secondary state universities. And then managed to drop lower than that as an FBS independent. Still, the right coach could start a turn around and it will be a heck of a story if it happens. Coach Brown improved the 130th ranked FBS defense to the 55th ranked defense in his first year. Maybe the turn around has begun. Brown's brought in a lot of transfers from the back end of P5 depth charts. It appears UMass may be trying to find success through the transfer portal. They certainly have one pitch: Playing time for anyone who shows up.
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Post by efg72 on Jul 31, 2023 10:14:29 GMT -5
With Clemson and FSU about to join the Big 10, perhaps this week, will UCONN go to the ACC? Does a victory over BC offer HC a chance to take a big step and join the remaining academics first schools-- Duke, Wake, UNC, UVA, BC, Georgia Tech, and Miami, are all highly regarded academic institutions
Just kidding of course, but food for thought-. Do we create an FCS version of the ACC that works for HC?
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hc69
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 224
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Post by hc69 on Jul 31, 2023 10:52:15 GMT -5
You left Pitt off the ACC list. It's one of the six AAU schools in the ACC. What the eight schools on the list share in addition to academic excellence is that none of them will ever sniff a FBS championship game. Because they actually have academic admissions standards for athletes, they can't admit the handful of studs they would need to compete at that level. ND has the best recruiting base on the country. But they have the same issue so they may never see another national championship game either. In addition, none of these schools appears to want to get into NIL bidding wars at the level that would be required. Having boosters buy players is seen, probably correctly, as being antithetical to the mission of academically elite institutions.
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Post by efg72 on Jul 31, 2023 11:17:23 GMT -5
Multiple ACC schools have won national championships in Hoops and baseball. The chance of doing so in the future, with the portal and NIL, however, is unclear.
Football seems to be moving to Midwest options and away from the East and west coasts.
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Post by Chu Chu on Jul 31, 2023 11:23:21 GMT -5
With Clemson and FSU about to join the Big 10, perhaps this week, will UCONN go to the ACC? Does a victory over BC offer HC a chance to take a big step and join the remaining academics first schools-- Duke, Wake, UNC, UVA, BC, Georgia Tech, and Miami, are all highly regarded academic institutions Just kidding of course, but food for thought-. Do we create an FCS version of the ACC that works for HC?To my mind, that is what the Patriot League aspires to be. Amid all the turmoil that is out there right now, our league feels like the right place for Holy Cross to be.
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 31, 2023 11:29:59 GMT -5
With Clemson and FSU about to join the Big 10, perhaps this week, will UCONN go to the ACC? Does a victory over BC offer HC a chance to take a big step and join the remaining academics first schools-- Duke, Wake, UNC, UVA, BC, Georgia Tech, and Miami, are all highly regarded academic institutions Just kidding of course, but food for thought-. Do we create an FCS version of the ACC that works for HC? Isn't the PL the Eastern academic first FCS conference that has scholarships, goes to the playoffs, that HC can get into and is actually a founding partner in? And HC can get a seed from and play five or six OOC games per year including multiple FBS games when we're good? No college will admit to being academic second but I get your meaning you want similar or higher ranked schools to play against who are restless and want to throw away their conferences to start a new one. I'll put all that into the tabulator but 3,000 student colleges don't compete well in non-scholarship sports vs 20,000 student universities so that's an issue. See Trophy, Turnpike. How about listing the Athletic accomplishments HC could achieve that would make the PL a good fit for you? The academics you want are there so that part of your ideal FCS conference is accomplished already.
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Post by efg72 on Jul 31, 2023 12:05:15 GMT -5
With Clemson and FSU about to join the Big 10, perhaps this week, will UCONN go to the ACC? Does a victory over BC offer HC a chance to take a big step and join the remaining academics first schools-- Duke, Wake, UNC, UVA, BC, Georgia Tech, and Miami, are all highly regarded academic institutions Just kidding of course, but food for thought-. Do we create an FCS version of the ACC that works for HC?To my mind, that is what the Patriot League aspires to be. Amid all the turmoil that is out there right now, our league feels like the right place for Holy Cross to be. The current Patriot League schools might be reasonable academic partners, but as a group the commitment to athletic excellence could be at best lacking. Is it possible the following schools make more sense for the future of a Holy Cross experience- education, athletic, spiritual and community? Richmond William and Mary Furman/Elon Villanova Fordham Holy Cross Delaware New Hampshire Conference games 7 football 14 hoops- m/w 7 soccer- m/w 7 lax m/w 7 field hockey 28 baseball and softball 0 ice hockey -m/w 7 volleyball Football OOC - 4 games 2 FBS 2 Ivies- H/Y?? Hoops OOC - 17 games 5 buy games 12 other OOC games-- no D3 allowed 8 H 4 A Average of 14/15 home games
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Post by midwestsader05 on Jul 31, 2023 12:19:43 GMT -5
Again, here is the state of play: If you want to pontificate these have to be your baseline working assumptions.
1) HC will most likely stay in the PL for football if the PL stays in its current form (all 7 teams) 2) The ONLY chance for a FOOTBALL ONLY shake-up is if Fordham or G'Town strongly consider leaving the PL as football affiliates. 3) Should #2 happen, the ONLY programs outside the current PL that might be open to the formation of a new FCS football conference are football only affiliates from other conferences. Please stop with Nova, Bill and Mary and Richmond, they aren't leaving the CAA. 4) That leaves 5 football programs (CAA football only affiliates UNH, URI, Maine and Albany plus Bryant (Big South/OVC).
Wake me up if the verified reports ever start that those 5 are seeking to build an FCS football conference and are giving HC and Fordham a call.
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Post by hcpride on Jul 31, 2023 12:30:51 GMT -5
To my mind, that is what the Patriot League aspires to be. Amid all the turmoil that is out there right now, our league feels like the right place for Holy Cross to be. The current Patriot League schools might be reasonable academic partners, but as a group the commitment to athletic excellence could be at best lacking... Thinking non-football for a moment, we are very often the weakling in the PL and demonstrate the least commitment to athletic excellence (and pile up sub-.500 seasons). In terms of football, I do wish the rest of the PL matched our commitment to athletic excellence.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jul 31, 2023 12:33:16 GMT -5
Again, here is the state of play: If you want to pontificate these have to be your baseline working assumptions. 1) HC will most likely stay in the PL for football if the PL stays in its current form (all 7 teams) 2) The ONLY chance for a FOOTBALL ONLY shake-up is if Fordham or G'Town strongly consider leaving the PL as football affiliates. 3) Should #2 happen, the ONLY programs outside the current PL that might be open to the formation of a new FCS football conference are football only affiliates from other conferences. Please stop with Nova, Bill and Mary and Richmond, they aren't leaving the CAA. 4) That leaves 5 football programs (CAA football only affiliates UNH, URI, Maine and Albany plus Bryant (Big South/OVC). Wake me up if the verified reports ever start that those 5 are seeking to build an FCS football conference and are giving HC and Fordham a call. I agree that #1 needs to happen for HC to do anything. Don't believe they're leaving the PL for football unless the league dissolves. Also, should Fordham and Georgetown remain in the PL, I HIGHLY doubt HC would be able to leave the league for football, but continue to play in the league for all other sports. The best chance for HC leaving is 1) Fordham and Georgetown leave and they have no choice but search for a new league, 2) a new conference is being formed where they can be a founding member I don't think #2 is impossible. It's just my guess that the New England-based CAA schools (plus Albany) don't like the conference becoming a much more southern league. The CAA for football is too big, a total miss mash of schools, and regionally a mess. Midwest, there are a couple of schools in the CAA that only play football in that conference -- Villanova (Big East), Richmond (A10). CAA for football has 15 members, nine of which are full CAA. I really wouldn't be surprised if, in the coming years, you see some of the CAA-only schools try and form their own league. If the PL was forward thinking (they're not), it would be great of them to try and lure some of these schools into the league...problem is they wouldn't come due to the AI and non-medical fifth years.
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 31, 2023 12:42:47 GMT -5
UNH beat Fordham by ten last season, HC only beat Fordham by one in OT. Yet UNH didn't get a seed and only made it to the second round of the FCS playoffs while HC earned a bye and played into the third round. Which league and OOC scheduling opportunities served their school better, HC/PL or UNH/CAA?
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Post by bfoley82 on Jul 31, 2023 12:44:25 GMT -5
Multiple ACC schools have won national championships in Hoops and baseball. The chance of doing so in the future, with the portal and NIL, however, is unclear. Football seems to be moving to Midwest options and away from the East and west coasts. The ACC has two national championships in Baseball with Virginia in 2015 and Wake Forest in 1955. Miami is the only other ACC school but they were an independent in 82, 85, 99, and 2001. Florida State and Clemson who you would expect had baseball titles have never brought one home.
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Post by bfoley82 on Jul 31, 2023 12:46:26 GMT -5
UNH beat Fordham by ten last season, HC only beat Fordham by one in OT. Yet UNH didn't get a seed and only made it to the second round of the FCS playoffs while HC earned a bye and played into he third round. Which league and OOC scheduling opportunities served their school better, HC/PL or UNH/CAA? Holy Cross needed a miracle win to beat Buffalo and if that two point conversation failed, they likely would have missed the tournament with two losses.
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 31, 2023 12:49:25 GMT -5
UNH beat Fordham by ten last season, HC only beat Fordham by one in OT. Yet UNH didn't get a seed and only made it to the second round of the FCS playoffs while HC earned a bye and played into he third round. Which league and OOC scheduling opportunities served their school better, HC/PL or UNH/CAA? Holy Cross needed a miracle win to beat Buffalo and if that two point conversation failed, they likely would have missed the tournament with two losses. So the CAA served UNH better than the PL served HC last year?
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Post by bfoley82 on Jul 31, 2023 12:50:54 GMT -5
Holy Cross needed a miracle win to beat Buffalo and if that two point conversation failed, they likely would have missed the tournament with two losses. So the CAA served UNH better than the PL served HC last year? Yes...UNH lost two FCS games last season with one conference loss and still got in the playoffs.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jul 31, 2023 12:54:44 GMT -5
UNH beat Fordham by ten last season, HC only beat Fordham by one in OT. Yet UNH didn't get a seed and only made it to the second round of the FCS playoffs while HC earned a bye and played into he third round. Which league and OOC scheduling opportunities served their school better, HC/PL or UNH/CAA? Holy Cross needed a miracle win to beat Buffalo and if that two point conversation failed, they likely would have missed the tournament with two losses. Would have gone to overtime against Buffalo had the hail mary at the end of regulation fallen incomplete. 50/50 chance whether they beat Buffalo then. I'm also not sure, even if they had lost both of these games, they'd have missed the playoffs. Would have been one of the final teams in or out. Fordham, with losses to a MAC school and HC, still got an at-large. HC would have had a similar resume to Fordham's this past season if they lost to Buffalo and Fordham.
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 31, 2023 12:55:21 GMT -5
Again, here is the state of play: If you want to pontificate these have to be your baseline working assumptions. 1) HC will most likely stay in the PL for football if the PL stays in its current form (all 7 teams) 2) The ONLY chance for a FOOTBALL ONLY shake-up is if Fordham or G'Town strongly consider leaving the PL as football affiliates. 3) Should #2 happen, the ONLY programs outside the current PL that might be open to the formation of a new FCS football conference are football only affiliates from other conferences. Please stop with Nova, Bill and Mary and Richmond, they aren't leaving the CAA. 4) That leaves 5 football programs (CAA football only affiliates UNH, URI, Maine and Albany plus Bryant (Big South/OVC). Wake me up if the verified reports ever start that those 5 are seeking to build an FCS football conference and are giving HC and Fordham a call. I agree that #1 needs to happen for HC to do anything. Don't believe they're leaving the PL for football unless the league dissolves. Also, should Fordham and Georgetown remain in the PL, I HIGHLY doubt HC would be able to leave the league for football, but continue to play in the league for all other sports. The best chance for HC leaving is 1) Fordham and Georgetown leave and they have no choice but search for a new league, 2) a new conference is being formed where they can be a founding member I don't think #2 is impossible. It's just my guess that the New England-based CAA schools (plus Albany) don't like the conference becoming a much more southern league. The CAA for football is too big, a total miss mash of schools, and regionally a mess. Midwest, there are a couple of schools in the CAA that only play football in that conference -- Villanova (Big East), Richmond (A10). CAA for football has 15 members, nine of which are full CAA. I really wouldn't be surprised if, in the coming years, you see some of the CAA-only schools try and form their own league. If the PL was forward thinking (they're not), it would be great of them to try and lure some of these schools into the league...problem is they wouldn't come due to the AI and non-medical fifth years. If FB only GU and Fordham left, wouldn't the PL offer schools such as Sacred Heart, Merrimack, Bryant, Wagner, St. Francis of PA etc., to be FB only members before dropping the sport?
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jul 31, 2023 12:58:48 GMT -5
Holy Cross needed a miracle win to beat Buffalo and if that two point conversation failed, they likely would have missed the tournament with two losses. So the CAA served UNH better than the PL served HC last year? Despite going undefeated in the regular season, beat a decent FBS team, and beat the Ivy League champs...HC got the last seed. Five of our games were against nobodies (Colgate, Bucknell, Lehigh, Lafayette, Georgetown), which certainly hurts the playoff resume.
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 31, 2023 13:03:38 GMT -5
Perhaps the six football only members of the CAA would be the easiest schools to make a switch if the PL was searching for a new member. The NEC may not allow a newcomer like Merrimack to stay for all the other sports except FB.
Because the IL has FB and PL schools have century plus FB relationships with IL schools, the PL would probably give saving FB as a conference sport the old College try before abandoning it.
The cost of FB is a rounding error in BU's budget. The PL might put the arm on them to restart FB if push came to shove. That means they also might acquiesce to Fordham and HC on issues of competitiveness if they felt that would keep the league together.
Not too much the league can do if GU wants to leave via the trap door down to the FCS sub basement.
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Post by midwestsader05 on Jul 31, 2023 14:10:56 GMT -5
Again, here is the state of play: If you want to pontificate these have to be your baseline working assumptions. 1) HC will most likely stay in the PL for football if the PL stays in its current form (all 7 teams) 2) The ONLY chance for a FOOTBALL ONLY shake-up is if Fordham or G'Town strongly consider leaving the PL as football affiliates. 3) Should #2 happen, the ONLY programs outside the current PL that might be open to the formation of a new FCS football conference are football only affiliates from other conferences. Please stop with Nova, Bill and Mary and Richmond, they aren't leaving the CAA. 4) That leaves 5 football programs (CAA football only affiliates UNH, URI, Maine and Albany plus Bryant (Big South/OVC). Wake me up if the verified reports ever start that those 5 are seeking to build an FCS football conference and are giving HC and Fordham a call. I agree that #1 needs to happen for HC to do anything. Don't believe they're leaving the PL for football unless the league dissolves. Also, should Fordham and Georgetown remain in the PL, I HIGHLY doubt HC would be able to leave the league for football, but continue to play in the league for all other sports. The best chance for HC leaving is 1) Fordham and Georgetown leave and they have no choice but search for a new league, 2) a new conference is being formed where they can be a founding member I don't think #2 is impossible. It's just my guess that the New England-based CAA schools (plus Albany) don't like the conference becoming a much more southern league. The CAA for football is too big, a total miss mash of schools, and regionally a mess. Midwest, there are a couple of schools in the CAA that only play football in that conference -- Villanova (Big East), Richmond (A10). CAA for football has 15 members, nine of which are full CAA. I really wouldn't be surprised if, in the coming years, you see some of the CAA-only schools try and form their own league. If the PL was forward thinking (they're not), it would be great of them to try and lure some of these schools into the league...problem is they wouldn't come due to the AI and non-medical fifth years. Didn't mean to imply Nova and Richmond were CAA for all sports. Just that there is close to a 0% chance of them leaving the CAA for Football as long as W&M, Delaware and other regional rivalries exist. The CAA makes much more sense as a football destination for those two vs the 4 most Northern affiliates that are increasingly fish out of water.
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hc69
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 224
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Post by hc69 on Jul 31, 2023 14:41:06 GMT -5
Again, here is the state of play: If you want to pontificate these have to be your baseline working assumptions. 1) HC will most likely stay in the PL for football if the PL stays in its current form (all 7 teams) 2) The ONLY chance for a FOOTBALL ONLY shake-up is if Fordham or G'Town strongly consider leaving the PL as football affiliates. 3) Should #2 happen, the ONLY programs outside the current PL that might be open to the formation of a new FCS football conference are football only affiliates from other conferences. Please stop with Nova, Bill and Mary and Richmond, they aren't leaving the CAA. 4) That leaves 5 football programs (CAA football only affiliates UNH, URI, Maine and Albany plus Bryant (Big South/OVC). Wake me up if the verified reports ever start that those 5 are seeking to build an FCS football conference and are giving HC and Fordham a call. +1
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jul 31, 2023 16:02:10 GMT -5
Not too much the league can do if GU wants to leave via the trap door down to the FCS sub basement. Of course there is: admissions relief. It did the Ivy League no good to see Columbia run out of that league (yes, they were considering it) and so they gave the Lions an opportunity to get back on its feet. It didn't destroy the sanctity of Ivy football and didn't even cost HYP one of its titles. It gave Columbia something that Georgetown doesn't have: hope. Georgetown has 25 league wins in 22 years. The talent wasn't coming before scholarships, and aren't coming now, especially after COVID. Against Colgate, Fordham, and Lehigh, Georgetown is a cumulative 5-56, with one win on the road among those three. Since the move to a scholarship PL, it has won just two games total against all PL teams not named Lafayette. That's not a healthy experience for the kids, for the schools, or for the league. That said, if Holy Cross and the PL want nothing more out of Georgetown than to embarrass them by 30 points every week for the forseeable future, then make no changes. But eventually Georgetown will.
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Post by timholycross on Jul 31, 2023 16:06:04 GMT -5
Perhaps the six football only members of the CAA would be the easiest schools to make a switch if the PL was searching for a new member. The NEC may not allow a newcomer like Merrimack to stay for all the other sports except FB. Because the IL has FB and PL schools have century plus FB relationships with IL schools, the PL would probably give saving FB as a conference sport the old College try before abandoning it. The cost of FB is a rounding error in BU's budget. The PL might put the arm on them to restart FB if push came to shove. That means they also might acquiesce to Fordham and HC on issues of competitiveness if they felt that would keep the league together. Not too much the league can do if GU wants to leave via the trap door down to the FCS sub basement. John Silber would come back from the dead before BU ever resumed football.
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 31, 2023 16:31:05 GMT -5
Not too much the league can do if GU wants to leave via the trap door down to the FCS sub basement. Of course there is: admissions relief. It did the Ivy League no good to see Columbia run out of that league (yes, they were considering it) and so they gave the Lions an opportunity to get back on its feet. It didn't destroy the sanctity of Ivy football and didn't even cost HYP one of its titles. It gave Columbia something that Georgetown doesn't have: hope. Georgetown has 25 league wins in 22 years. The talent wasn't coming before scholarships, and aren't coming now, especially after COVID. Against Colgate, Fordham, and Lehigh, Georgetown is a cumulative 5-56, with one win on the road among those three. Since the move to a scholarship PL, it has won just two games total against all PL teams not named Lafayette. That's not a healthy experience for the kids, for the schools, or for the league. That said, if Holy Cross and the PL want nothing more out of Georgetown than to embarrass them by 30 points every week for the forseeable future, then make no changes. But eventually Georgetown will. I like your proposal. Let's get it done! GU doesn't need some artificial AI for Football to prove they are a world class University. Great idea.
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 31, 2023 16:36:28 GMT -5
Perhaps the six football only members of the CAA would be the easiest schools to make a switch if the PL was searching for a new member. The NEC may not allow a newcomer like Merrimack to stay for all the other sports except FB. Because the IL has FB and PL schools have century plus FB relationships with IL schools, the PL would probably give saving FB as a conference sport the old College try before abandoning it. The cost of FB is a rounding error in BU's budget. The PL might put the arm on them to restart FB if push came to shove. That means they also might acquiesce to Fordham and HC on issues of competitiveness if they felt that would keep the league together. Not too much the league can do if GU wants to leave via the trap door down to the FCS sub basement. John Silber would come back from the dead before BU ever resumed football. BU, AU and Loyola all waltzed in without FB so if GU and Fordham leave the PL Prexies have no one to blame but their predecessor Prexies (tenure of a college president isn't that long now with all the minefields in Academia.)
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