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Post by bfoley82 on Jul 16, 2023 10:29:24 GMT -5
I am afraid I still don't know exactly what Parks did. I would appreciate some details. PM if you prefer. Thanks in advance for any help. From what I have read in the Telegram, Gibbons was arguing a foul call with an official and as he was arguing the foul call, Parks put in a sub to replace the player who became into foul trouble. Gibbons went off on her for going behind her back. From there none of us knows what was said but I would say it wasn't pretty and she reported it.
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 16, 2023 11:24:59 GMT -5
A veteran coach pushing his raspy voice into yet another fruitless argument with the refs is an unattractive feature of watching games, imo.
"Back the Blue" or in this case the striped shirts, and let the refs ref and the players play.
An attractive feature of watching games is when a player comes off the floor and sits next to an assistant coach who calmly reviews his play with him while it is fresh.
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Post by Tom on Jul 16, 2023 16:18:17 GMT -5
I am afraid I still don't know exactly what Parks did. I would appreciate some details. PM if you prefer. Thanks in advance for any help. Following up what Foley wrote, that was basically the start of it, although I don't recall hearing Coach Gibbons "going off" at that time, simply countermanded the substitution. . She then complained that the countermand was public embarrassment. It was reported at the time that Coach Gibbons basically told her he was the boss and if she didn't like the way he ran a game, tough There were some other things that to me came across like continually throwing mud against the wall until something stuck
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 16, 2023 17:10:54 GMT -5
I am afraid I still don't know exactly what Parks did. I would appreciate some details. PM if you prefer. Thanks in advance for any help. Following up what Foley wrote, that was basically the start of it, although I don't recall hearing Coach Gibbons "going off" at that time, simply countermanded the substitution. . She then complained that the countermand was public embarrassment. It was reported at the time that Coach Gibbons basically told her he was the boss and if she didn't like the way he ran a game, tough There were some other things that to me came across like continually throwing mud against the wall until something stuck "Public embarrassment" is as hard to measure an amount of harm as is reputational damage from the school not using a big enough bullhorn to refute an implication some might have understood because of a recent unconnected announcement in a different department. But the damage was real to those involved and when FADNP left there was no one capable or interested in defusing the situation. I don't know if Nate could have but I do remember him thinking the bench kerfuffle was not a big deal and not out of the ordinary during a long competitive season. I don't think Coach Parks did anything wrong and she didn't sue anyone. I wish her well and hope BG has a new lease on life with this saga resolved. Coach AM and the players did an admirable job competing with one less coach the rest of the season.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 17, 2023 10:32:39 GMT -5
Gibbons was on a short leash after Cooper. Cooper only filed her complaint after the College appeared to do nothing with respect to a preceding complaint against BG by another unnamed player. There was apparently a video record of his action(s) with respect to both players, and Rosemary Shea allegedly witnessed at least one of the public incidents. IIRC, from BG's complaint against the College, he asserted he was denied due process because he was not allowed to review the draft of the investigative report, as well as the statements of those who had spoken with the investigating official(s), before this material was submitted to the adjudicating official. I drew an inference from this that there was more to the assistant coach's complaint than just this publicly cited incident.
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 17, 2023 12:53:02 GMT -5
Gibbons was on a short leash after Cooper. Cooper only filed her complaint after the College appeared to do nothing with respect to a preceding complaint against BG by another unnamed player. There was apparently a video record of his action(s) with respect to both players, and Rosemary Shea allegedly witnessed at least one of the public incidents. IIRC, from BG's complaint against the College, he asserted he was denied due process because he was not allowed to review the draft of the investigative report, as well as the statements of those who had spoken with the investigating official(s), before this material was submitted to the adjudicating official. I drew an inference from this that there was more to the assistant coach's complaint than just this publicly cited incident. Who alleged Rosemary Shea witnessed a public event and did nothing about it? If the public event was a home game, I believe HC WBB averaged 1,000 or do fans back then so that would put Ms. Shea's impressions in context of no known complaints from the 1,000 or so other witnesses. I'm not aware of her being suspended or anything so I'm not sure it's fair to imply she did anything wrong.
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Post by timholycross on Jul 17, 2023 13:13:23 GMT -5
IIRC, from BG's complaint against the College, he asserted he was denied due process because he was not allowed to review the draft of the investigative report, as well as the statements of those who had spoken with the investigating official(s), before this material was submitted to the adjudicating official. It just occurred to me that this portion of the suit was probably a slam dunk to dismiss, considering the adjudicating official ruled in Bill's favor; i.e., if the season had not ended, he would have been reinstated (then, later, not get rehired). I still think "slow walking" the Parks complaint was the way to go. They didn't have to suspend him, only talking about 3-4 weeks here.
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Post by HC13 on Jul 17, 2023 13:34:18 GMT -5
Gibbons was on a short leash after Cooper. Cooper only filed her complaint after the College appeared to do nothing with respect to a preceding complaint against BG by another unnamed player. There was apparently a video record of his action(s) with respect to both players, and Rosemary Shea allegedly witnessed at least one of the public incidents. IIRC, from BG's complaint against the College, he asserted he was denied due process because he was not allowed to review the draft of the investigative report, as well as the statements of those who had spoken with the investigating official(s), before this material was submitted to the adjudicating official. I drew an inference from this that there was more to the assistant coach's complaint than just this publicly cited incident. I have generally avoided commenting in this entire thread as it does seem a little pointless, BG is gone & it is likely his case is over. But assuming there was a prior incident, none of which most, if not all, were aware of prior to Ms. Cooper’s claim, how do you know it was not resolved between the player, parents, BG & the school? I still find it interesting that unlike so many other incidents or claims of player abuse, not one player from the team or prior players ever stepped forward in support of Cooper, rather, nearly a 100 former players & assistants came forward in support of BG. And no, I don’t believe those signees were manipulated by BG to do so as that would be a terribly condescending statement about a very successful group of women. I watched the Brown game stream some 10 years ago & Cooper was indeed pushed rather hard off the court, but people seem to never mention why. The Brown game was pretty chippy right from the start and tempers flared on more than one occasion. IIRC, Cooper got tripped or tangled up with a Brown player & came up angrily, words were spoken, and it looked as if fisticuffs might happen. Coaches from both quickly jumped in, Cooper was grabbed and pulled away (by teammates I believe), and pushed to the bench by BG. Then the camera swung away, commercial break, I think, and order was restored. Yes, she got hit, but apparently not in malice rather to get her away form the Brown player and in an attempt to deescalate the situation. As to Ms. Parks, don’t know if we will ever know the truth, but for those interested, the Fenwick did a decent summary of BG’s compliant here www.thefenwickreview.com/archive/2021/5/19/bill-gibbons-v-holy-cross. Also, pretty good discussion of the claims on the board previously crossports.freeforums.net/thread/4371/gibbons-sues-hc. A large part of BG’s issue was his belief that HC violated the terms of review in his contract. One side affect of the way HC handled this case is that they painted him as a racist & misogynist, rendering him I think, unemployable in the world we live in today. Had this not happened, I’d guess that he would not have been extended, but hopefully, they would have parted on much better terms, even creating some ass’t AD position or the like.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 17, 2023 13:44:53 GMT -5
Gibbons was on a short leash after Cooper. Cooper only filed her complaint after the College appeared to do nothing with respect to a preceding complaint against BG by another unnamed player. There was apparently a video record of his action(s) with respect to both players, and Rosemary Shea allegedly witnessed at least one of the public incidents. IIRC, from BG's complaint against the College, he asserted he was denied due process because he was not allowed to review the draft of the investigative report, as well as the statements of those who had spoken with the investigating official(s), before this material was submitted to the adjudicating official. I drew an inference from this that there was more to the assistant coach's complaint than just this publicly cited incident. Who alleged Rosemary Shea witnessed a public event and did nothing about it? If the public event was a home game, I believe HC WBB averaged 1,000 or do fans back then so that would put Ms. Shea's impressions in context of no known complaints from the 1,000 or so other witnesses. I'm not aware of her being suspended or anything so I'm not sure it's fair to imply she did anything wrong. IIRC, Rosemary Shea was a named defendant in Cooper's suit. My sense was that she may have been sitting near the group of parents who observed BG grabbing Cooper during a timeout. Cooper's attorney sought the videotape of two games, one may have been against Brown. Whether the games both related to Cooper's allegations, or one game related to the other unnamed player, I don't recall. IMO, joining Shea as a defendant was a legal strategy, and not a suggestion of culpability. What action, if any, HC took with respect to the first player's complaint would have come up in pre-trial discovery. In the case of Cooper, she was interviewed in conjunction with the College's investigation of the first player's complaint. It appears in that interview, she also told of her experience with BG grabbing her. There was a photo taken in front of the Holy Cross bench at a game at UConn of a red-faced BG grabbing an unidentified HC player (her number wasn't Cooper's and that game wasn't one in which the videotape was sought) and he had both his hands on the player's upper shoulders, near where the collarbone meets the neck.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jul 17, 2023 13:51:41 GMT -5
Wasn’t there an issue in the early 2000’s regarding a member of the staff with a player that caused a HR review? This issue preceded the player not named and the Cooper incident. IIRC, the Parks situation was the third HR issue that was of concern.
I had a very brief conversation with BG in January 2019. He seemed easily angered and very defensive at the time and took my comment out of context without fully listening what was a said. My comment was directed regarding the awful officiating at the Brown game on November 18, 2018, which HC lost by a score of 89-85. He mistook it as a criticism of his coaching, which it was not. In retrospect the Brown game was the one immediately after the BC game, so he may had already been in a less than amiable mood regarding discussing any game events from November. By the time I talked to him after a men’s game in January against Loyola, the die was cast regarding his tenure. Of note, my previous interaction with BG in the spring of 2018, was exceptional amiable, which at the time of the January conversation was surprising. I was not aware of the Parks situation at the time of the Loyola game on January 19, 2019, otherwise I would have been more circumspect in my conversation.
Unfortunately, the downward coaching spiral had began long before the Parks incident. After the 600th victory, he should had retired gracefully, with accolades and engraved rocking chairs.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 17, 2023 14:08:29 GMT -5
I will add that after the Cooper case was settled, HC completely revamped its policies and procedures with respect to complaints by students against staff. At the time of Cooper, the adjudicating officer for such complaints was the Director of Administration. (The thinking with respect to the choice of adjudicating official may have been that the complaints they expected to see were staff complaints against other staff.) As BC was classified as staff, and not as faculty, the Director of Administration was the adjudicating official. There was a separate process for students complaints against faculty. Also, after Cooper was settled, a new general counsel was hired, and Fr. B.'s chief of staff was a lawyer.
The assistant coach's complaint, which would be a staff complaint against other staff, was handled, IIRC, under the new policies and procedures.
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Post by HC13 on Jul 17, 2023 15:00:45 GMT -5
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Post by sader1970 on Jul 17, 2023 15:02:36 GMT -5
I was a long time women's basketball season ticket holder, until they stopped the mens/womens double headers and couldn't see the 146 drive twice as often. Something had to give and it was the ladies team.
BG was always personable, approachable and friendly in those days and he was a regular attendee at those Worcester Club coaches nights. But, IMHO, he was always an emotional/excitable Irishman (being one, I can say that).
But, for whatever reason, he lost his coaching edge. Perhaps after so much success, he got complacent? Recruited players were consistently fine people and great students but the talent level seemed a shade less than what he was able to recruit in prior years.
As the wins came in smaller numbers, that excitability seemed to still be there but more negative. He just didn't seem to have the same joy that was obvious in the past.
Not sure what happened and will likely never know until and if he writes his memoirs.
I wish him the best and wish this whole topic just goes away.
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 17, 2023 15:41:35 GMT -5
It was the high pitched squeak his yells disintegrated to as the game wore on that was alarming to me.
Players would be reprimanded for becoming so emotional but often not coaches. I guess I am looking at the AD and in this case the SWA and the Assoc. AD assigned to monitor that sport when I say this.
Blessed with a large staff of athletic administrators, Holy Cross should use them to keep the coaches grounded, supported and supervised.
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Post by HC13 on Jul 17, 2023 15:41:47 GMT -5
I was a long time women's basketball season ticket holder, until they stopped the mens/womens double headers and couldn't see the 146 drive twice as often. Something had to give and it was the ladies team. BG was always personable, approachable and friendly in those days and he was a regular attendee at those Worcester Club coaches nights. But, IMHO, he was always an emotional/excitable Irishman (being one, I can say that). But, for whatever reason, he lost his coaching edge. Perhaps after so much success, he got complacent? Recruited players were consistently fine people and great students but the talent level seemed a shade less than what he was able to recruit in prior years. As the wins came in smaller numbers, that excitability seemed to still be there but more negative. He just didn't seem to have the same joy that was obvious in the past. Not sure what happened and will likely never know until and if he writes his memoirs. I wish him the best and wish this whole topic just goes away. I agree, but in part I think he lost his mojo, in part by making a number of hires that didn't work out very well and struggled in recruiting through most of the 2008-2015. His last 6/7 recruiting classes were pretty good, the last of which is the current rising seniors, excluding BPC.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jul 17, 2023 16:17:21 GMT -5
Over the last 10 years of his tenure, player injuries were part of the equation. It seemed so often that players that were recruited to be keystones of the program struggled with persistent health and skeletal problems throughout their career. Cannot win if your star recruits are not on the court.
Also, during that time, the athletes played scared…..they were afraid of being yelled after. They lacked swagger when they stepped on the court. There were only a couple such as Lauren and Avery that I could say would lace them up and would go tooth and nail against the opponents without fear of retribution or retaliation.
The teams of the last two years have a swagger restored, you could see it especially demonstrated in the PL Tournament games against American and Lehigh this past season.
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Post by Tom on Jul 17, 2023 20:17:26 GMT -5
Following up what Foley wrote, that was basically the start of it, although I don't recall hearing Coach Gibbons "going off" at that time, simply countermanded the substitution. . She then complained that the countermand was public embarrassment. It was reported at the time that Coach Gibbons basically told her he was the boss and if she didn't like the way he ran a game, tough There were some other things that to me came across like continually throwing mud against the wall until something stuck "Public embarrassment" is as hard to measure an amount of harm as is reputational damage from the school not using a big enough bullhorn to refute an implication some might have understood because of a recent unconnected announcement in a different department. But the damage was real to those involved and when FADNP left there was no one capable or interested in defusing the situation. I don't know if Nate could have but I do remember him thinking the bench kerfuffle was not a big deal and not out of the ordinary during a long competitive season. I don't think Coach Parks did anything wrong and she didn't sue anyone. I wish her well and hope BG has a new lease on life with this saga resolved. Coach AM and the players did an admirable job competing with one less coach the rest of the season. Coach Parks didn't sue anyone. She did make repeated complaints about her supervisor. Most were dismissed as frivolous (which based on public reporting at the time seemed to me to be the correct action). Finally she came up with a complaint that TPTB felt had merit
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jul 17, 2023 20:42:10 GMT -5
"Public embarrassment" is as hard to measure an amount of harm as is reputational damage from the school not using a big enough bullhorn to refute an implication some might have understood because of a recent unconnected announcement in a different department. But the damage was real to those involved and when FADNP left there was no one capable or interested in defusing the situation. I don't know if Nate could have but I do remember him thinking the bench kerfuffle was not a big deal and not out of the ordinary during a long competitive season. I don't think Coach Parks did anything wrong and she didn't sue anyone. I wish her well and hope BG has a new lease on life with this saga resolved. Coach AM and the players did an admirable job competing with one less coach the rest of the season. Coach Parks didn't sue anyone. She did make repeated complaints about her supervisor. Most were dismissed as frivolous (which based on public reporting at the time seemed to me to be the correct action). Finally she came up with a complaint that TPTB felt had merit Like Coach Gilmore, she demonstrated character. Left HC without pursing a path of self pity and acrimony. She coached at HC for over three years. goholycross.com/sports/womens-basketball/roster/coaches/danielle-parks/738She saw things regarding recruiting and relationships that we do not have clear insight. There are many layers to this onion, that indicated change was necessary. Nate was out the door, and Brendan, while previously an AD at Stonehill, probably had not faced an acrimonious situation as intense as the period after Christmas of 2018. Maybe it could have been handled differently, but at what cost, an entire team revolt with numerous transfers out the door in March while waiting for the decision to be made. If you remember, the entire incoming WBB class was held without attrition. The meritorious complaints had probably been there for a long time, finally they saw the light of day by being exposed during an in game situation.
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 17, 2023 21:42:48 GMT -5
That co-hort of players are among the most mature and sensible student athletes to wear purple in recent years. They focused on their choices that provided lifetime value. They had the scholarship, the great academic institution that leads to a respected degree and D-1 athletics. So what if the adults were feuding and bickering. They didn't let themselves get drawn in and worked hard to represent Holy Cross in two post season national tournaments.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Aug 4, 2023 8:48:13 GMT -5
It appears from the court's online docket that BG did not file a notice of appeal. With no appeal that would be the end of the case.
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Post by HC92 on Aug 4, 2023 8:56:29 GMT -5
It appears from the court's online docket that BG did not file a notice of appeal. With no appeal that would be the end of the case. And hopefully the end of this thread.
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Post by sader1970 on Aug 4, 2023 10:19:18 GMT -5
🥲 And we were having so much fun!
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Post by ndgradbuthcfan on Aug 4, 2023 16:38:45 GMT -5
Crossport's "Bleak House" is fini.
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Post by timholycross on Aug 5, 2023 7:57:23 GMT -5
Please live a long and happy life, Bill....privately.
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Post by hc2020 on Aug 28, 2023 12:26:03 GMT -5
Not sure if this was already posted, but it appears from that BG’s lawsuit was dismissed by the presiding judge for, among other reasons, BG admitting that he had added or deleted lines in some otherwise authentic email messages produced during the discovery process involving his lawsuit, while other emails had come from fake accounts he had created. Apparently, these actions were undertaken in an attempt to bolster his legal claims about his future employability as a result of his firing by HC.
These kinds of fraudulent actions are very damning… I suspect this was a main reason why he chose not to appeal the dismissal of his case.
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