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Post by sader1970 on Oct 9, 2023 14:02:11 GMT -5
Whataya talking trash about the IL? Of course they are all honest as SCOTUS is stacked with Ivy.
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hc69
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 219
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Post by hc69 on Oct 9, 2023 14:02:51 GMT -5
Ah, the argument from hearsay evidence.
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Post by gks on Oct 9, 2023 14:04:30 GMT -5
Ah, the argument from hearsay evidence. You can believe what you want. People who pay attention know the truth.
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hc69
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 219
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Post by hc69 on Oct 9, 2023 14:08:37 GMT -5
I spent 18 years as an NCAA Faculty Athletics Representative, ten of those in the NCAA governance process at the national level. I chaired two NCAA committees and a project team. I modesty suggest that I know a bit about how financial aid works.
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Post by hc1996 on Oct 9, 2023 14:17:56 GMT -5
The kid I referenced is the son of an obstetrician and a dermatologist. He paid nothing for his Yale education. Zero. Took a couple big hits on the football field though.
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Post by alum on Oct 9, 2023 14:18:36 GMT -5
The general public assumes that athletic scholarships are full rides and, even if they don't say it themselves, parents often don't correct those who get it wrong. There was a story years ago in which a women's college coach was quoted as saying that parents would beg her to give their kids even a $500 scholarship so that they could attend the letter of intent ceremony at the high school. (This was before high schools let any kid who might be playing a college sport participate.)
If Yale was giving every football player 100% financial aid regardless of need, the word would get out.
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Post by hc1996 on Oct 9, 2023 14:23:59 GMT -5
The word is out. The problem is nobody really cares. Yale isn’t competing for national championships in football. They’re just doing everything they possibly can to beat Harvard every year. And we know Harvard is doing the same.
However, perhaps someone should look into their “non-scholarship” hockey team! 😂
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Post by hcpride on Oct 9, 2023 14:43:25 GMT -5
The general public assumes that athletic scholarships are full rides and, even if they don't say it themselves, parents often don't correct those who get it wrong. There was a story years ago in which a women's college coach was quoted as saying that parents would beg her to give their kids even a $500 scholarship so that they could attend the letter of intent ceremony at the high school. (This was before high schools let any kid who might be playing a college sport participate.) If Yale was giving every football player 100% financial aid regardless of need, the word would get out. Completely agree on both points. I would add that unless one has current first-hand (I wouldn't even rely on a neighbor's/friend's/cousin's representations) experience of Yale financial aid it is difficult to grasp. Yale is a different universe than HC (in many ways including financial aid). And Yale applies financial aid to athletes and non-athletes alike. And equally. Sooooo, many athletes and non-athletes pay nothing/very little.
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Post by hc1996 on Oct 9, 2023 14:55:58 GMT -5
You don’t have to rely on my information if you don’t want. That’s totally fine. I’m not looking to change anyone’s opinion, but the fact of the matter is HC needs to change something if we are to remain this competitive. If we don’t, we will be losing more football games to the Ivies than we win and our other non-Ivy competition will certainly outpace us.
Years ago we realized we couldn’t compete with our “peers” without giving scholarships. I’m glad they recognized that error and changed course. The fact that they felt they could take away scholarships and would then be viewed as stronger academically is quite embarrassing.
We are not Yale, Harvard, Willams, Amherst, BC or Georgetown. But, some clear hurdles need to be addressed in the next few years otherwise we will revert back to being an average PL football program. I really don’t think anyone wants that.
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Post by longsuffering on Oct 9, 2023 16:01:49 GMT -5
And your empirical evidence for Yale is what? Credible references/sources, please. Also, what experience do you have working in administering or monitoring athletically-related aid at the institution, conference, and/or NCAA level? Ask coaches who play against them. Big reason why they don't play in the FCS playoffs. Too many schools would demand they open their books. Heard many times their equivalencies are way over FBS limits. How would a demand from a playoff opponent to open the books differ from a demand from a regular season opponent? Do the playoffs require deeper disclosure or are you thinking a random playoff opponent doesn't risk harming an ongoing regular season series by making the demand? My sense is there is no requirement for a school to open it's books to an athletic opponent but on the other hand it's the NCAA we are talking about.
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Post by hcpride on Oct 9, 2023 16:08:49 GMT -5
Ask coaches who play against them. Big reason why they don't play in the FCS playoffs. Too many schools would demand they open their books. Heard many times their equivalencies are way over FBS limits. How would a demand from a playoff opponent to open the books differ from a demand from a regular season opponent? Do the playoffs require deeper disclosure or are you thinking a random playoff opponent doesn't risk harming an ongoing regular season series by making the demand? My sense is there is no requirement for a school to open it's books to an athletic opponent but on the other hand it's the NCAA we are talking about. Not so sure about the playoff and books opening theory (beyond the fact that the Ivies participate in all sorts of NCAA playoffs).
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 9, 2023 16:21:28 GMT -5
And your empirical evidence for Yale is what? Credible references/sources, please. Also, what experience do you have working in administering or monitoring athletically-related aid at the institution, conference, and/or NCAA level? Ask coaches who play against them. Big reason why they don't play in the FCS playoffs. Too many schools would demand they open their books. Heard many times their equivalencies are way over FBS limits. Something tells me if North Dakota State were tasked with the task of playing Harvard or Yale in the playoffs, instead of demanding a financial aid investigation, they would simply say "Ok, Yale's coming to the Fargo Dome." And then they'd simply beat them by 2-4 scores and and move on.
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Post by hc1996 on Oct 9, 2023 16:29:43 GMT -5
Yeah, but the point here is North Dakota is and will continue to operate with advantages over the PL and IL. The problem I’m seeing is we, at least in my opinion, have been operating with a slight advantage over the IL the last few years. That is going away. The Ivies aren’t completely honest about their grant/scholarship situation. HC needs to recognize all of these challenges and do something to address them.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Oct 9, 2023 16:33:07 GMT -5
If both Sluka and Dobbs depart at the end of this year that is a huge blow. Both made tremendous contributions as starters their respective frosh years and have been among the tops in FCS at their postions ever since. Nobody on the roster has close to their talent at quarterback and linebacker IMHO (despite some very good recuiting in the interim). Between these losses (especially Sluka) and a future without fifth-years (if we buy into some sort of a PL self-defeating mindset) we may be scaling our program goals back to PL Championships in the very near future. Holding on to Chesney with a goal like that seems a no-go from the get-go. Not too long ago many on Crossports were raving about next year's incoming recruits. Sluka and Dobbs will be big losses, but I'm going to assume based on his track record that Chesney knows what he is doing. What I'm not going to assume is what Chesney's thinking about his future.
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Post by efg72 on Oct 9, 2023 16:43:19 GMT -5
April 1, 2024
Holy Cross pushes the Patriot League to adopt a fifth-year eligibility proposal.
It was recently revealed that Holy Cross, Colgate, Fordham, and Georgetown supported a proposal for football to increase eligibility to five years. The league continues to require a version of an Academic Index for student-athletes to gain admission and an athletic scholarship. The AI calculation is the same for every program. Also, if students fail to maintain good academic standing, their school will have its number of scholarships reduced by that number of students.
In addition, the league agreed to 63 scholarships each year for the next five years, while Holy Cross, Fordham, Colgate, and Georgetown informed the PL that their supporters would make NIL offerings available for all sports. And, like the P5 schools, they will pay students $3k for taking an official visit.
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Post by hc1996 on Oct 9, 2023 17:14:21 GMT -5
There you go! Creative thinking. Send to Kit Hughes.
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Post by gks on Oct 9, 2023 17:47:47 GMT -5
In regards to the Ivies I'm just telling you what I've heard from those that would know.
If you want to believe athletes at the Untouchable 8....especially HYP....are treated like normal students go right ahead.
Back to next year.
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Post by efg72 on Oct 9, 2023 19:10:02 GMT -5
April 1, 2024 Holy Cross pushes the Patriot League to adopt a fifth-year eligibility proposal. It was recently revealed that Holy Cross, Colgate, Fordham, and Georgetown supported a proposal for football to increase eligibility to five years. The league continues to require a version of an Academic Index for student-athletes to gain admission and an athletic scholarship. The AI calculation is the same for every program. Also, if students fail to maintain good academic standing, their school will have its number of scholarships reduced by that number of students. In addition, the league agreed to 63 scholarships each year for the next five years, while Holy Cross, Fordham, Colgate, and Georgetown informed the PL that their supporters would make NIL offerings available for all sports. And, like the P5 schools, they will pay students $3k for taking an official visit. For those that are troubled by this or enjoy it, please realize it is a compilation of the range of offerings made in other posts And most importantly presented as An April Fools Joke in 2024
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 9, 2023 19:19:33 GMT -5
April 1, 2024 Holy Cross pushes the Patriot League to adopt a fifth-year eligibility proposal. It was recently revealed that Holy Cross, Colgate, Fordham, and Georgetown supported a proposal for football to increase eligibility to five years. The league continues to require a version of an Academic Index for student-athletes to gain admission and an athletic scholarship. The AI calculation is the same for every program. Also, if students fail to maintain good academic standing, their school will have its number of scholarships reduced by that number of students. In addition, the league agreed to 63 scholarships each year for the next five years, while Holy Cross, Fordham, Colgate, and Georgetown informed the PL that their supporters would make NIL offerings available for all sports. And, like the P5 schools, they will pay students $3k for taking an official visit. What is the source of this? I note it was released on April 1.---------------------------------------- My nephew played hoops for an IL school. There were several players, starters in fact, who were full pays.
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Post by hcpride on Oct 9, 2023 19:19:44 GMT -5
If both Sluka and Dobbs depart at the end of this year that is a huge blow. Both made tremendous contributions as starters their respective frosh years and have been among the tops in FCS at their postions ever since. Nobody on the roster has close to their talent at quarterback and linebacker IMHO (despite some very good recuiting in the interim).
Between these losses (especially Sluka) and a future without fifth-years (if we buy into some sort of a PL self-defeating mindset) we may be scaling our program goals back to PL Championships in the very near future. Holding on to Chesney with a goal like that seems a no-go from the get-go. Not too long ago many on Crossports were raving about next year's incoming recruits. Sluka and Dobbs will be big losses, but I'm going to assume based on his track record that Chesney knows what he is doing. What I'm not going to assume is what Chesney's thinking about his future. Three things can be true at the same time. Very good recuits coming in, unlikely to see frosh starting and starring at key positions as we saw with Sluka and Dobbs, and Chesney knows what he is doing.
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Post by efg72 on Oct 9, 2023 19:23:19 GMT -5
April 1, 2024 Holy Cross pushes the Patriot League to adopt a fifth-year eligibility proposal. It was recently revealed that Holy Cross, Colgate, Fordham, and Georgetown supported a proposal for football to increase eligibility to five years. The league continues to require a version of an Academic Index for student-athletes to gain admission and an athletic scholarship. The AI calculation is the same for every program. Also, if students fail to maintain good academic standing, their school will have its number of scholarships reduced by that number of students. In addition, the league agreed to 63 scholarships each year for the next five years, while Holy Cross, Fordham, Colgate, and Georgetown informed the PL that their supporters would make NIL offerings available for all sports. And, like the P5 schools, they will pay students $3k for taking an official visit. What is the source of this? I note it was released on April 1. ---------------------------------------- My nephew played hoops for an IL school. There were several players, starters in fact, who were full pays. PP it is dated 2024 and was my sense of humor, perhaps misguided, addressing various comments, thoughts, approaches, to the future of the PL, academics, scholarships, fifth year eligibility etc— something for everybody If it should be deleted let me know
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 9, 2023 19:36:48 GMT -5
The academies equivalencies are way, way over NCAA limits.
That said, it has long been said on this forum that football equivalences at HYP could exceed the 85 cap in FBS, and most. if not all, Ivies equivalencies exceed the 63 cap in FCS.
When the PL re-introduced scollies for football, Fordham's financial aid amount for football dropped slightly from what it was when there supposedly were no merit scollies. And IIRC, if you divided Fordham's financial aid amount by the estimated cost of attendance, Fordham had more than 63 equivalencies.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 9, 2023 19:38:59 GMT -5
What is the source of this? I note it was released on April 1. ---------------------------------------- My nephew played hoops for an IL school. There were several players, starters in fact, who were full pays. PP it is dated 2024 and was my sense of humor, perhaps misguided, addressing various comments, thoughts, approaches, to the future of the PL, academics, scholarships, fifth year eligibility etc— something for everybody If it should be deleted let me know No need to delete. I put a strikethrough on my initial comment after you explained the significance of the date.
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hc69
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 219
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Post by hc69 on Oct 9, 2023 19:59:43 GMT -5
I've leaned to read efg's posts very carefully.
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Post by ndgradbuthcfan on Oct 9, 2023 20:06:11 GMT -5
You're going to hurt your back.
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