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Post by sader1970 on Nov 30, 2023 11:44:51 GMT -5
Really? We are losing in basketball because we are solid in football? Hopefully I am misinterpreting what you are saying.
We are losing because:
1. Friggin' Pitino stole his buddy, Ralph, late in the proverbial day 2. Sean Kearney couldn't make the transition from long time assistant to head coach (he apparently thought head coach is like a CEO and he didn't have his own assistants, so a clash of Willard-Kearney ideas on how Crusader basketball should be played - result: chaos and a player revolt) 3. The hole that Sean dug was too deep for Milan Brown to get out of and he recruited top athletes who weren't necessarily good basketball players. Presumably he thought like the old Dallas Cowboys it was best to get the best athletes, not looking at how they meshed. 4. Bill Carmody came in with lots of experience but apparently thought he could mail it in and the illness of his beloved wife had to have taken his focus off his coaching - totally understandable but wished he decided to depart earlier. 5. Brett Nelson then came in but . . . . we all know the story and no need to re-hash again.
I don't think anyone sold their soul to football.
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Post by hcnj on Nov 30, 2023 12:03:33 GMT -5
SOV, my comment was expectations of players to take a step up. Bo has always been a "potential" guy and has always been fairly inconsistent beyond 3-4 games. His little streak late last year was about as good as I thought he'd ever be. Regarding Ryan and putting him in weight rooms and training programs. He was reportedly out of shape in HS so went post grad to get in shape and get exposure. We were his offer. Then we were led to believe the new staff had already helped him make great strides in his conditioning. So now we don't want him to play his way into shape (or show he can't or won't)? He has legit size and some actual offensive basketball skills which is unique on our team. He'll probably be foul prone so I wouldn't have him believing he should play opponents too tightly but few do anyway right now.
I'd rather use the year to figure out if Wills is purely a point, if so we can guess about next year. I'm not comfortable with Singleton or Williams as our points other than backup duty. Singleton and Williams need to play the 2 for decent minutes and Williams needs to show if he can score from there or will always be a backup at 1-2. Is Nugent a 3 or 4? Run something for him inside and let's see if he can do something around the basket before pigeonholing him as only a 3 offensively, we've got another 2/3 and 3 lined up already for next year. We don't have the right players or balance by position to pretend Bo is a point or declaring the least mistake prone PG as looking solid. We're likely not going very far this year so don't squander the valuable time we have now. Batch is a vet on this team, he has one strength so he needs to shoot decently or he can't help us. We can't change recent poor perception of opportunity here, that's Paulsen's job, not easy but that's his job description. We've got nothing to lose IMHO.
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Post by trimster on Nov 30, 2023 12:20:18 GMT -5
Losing at home isn't "sustainable" for a basketball program. "Look at what they did to my boy!..." Nobody is showing up because we're not winning in front of our fans. To be fair, the team hasn't discriminated over the last 15 years-- they're not really winning anywhere. We sold our basketball souls for our football program. We just stay getting trounced. As is almost always the case, football drives the conference affiliation. No different here. Willard showed HC can have a legit hoops program while in the PL just as Chesney has shown in football. I have faith DP can as well.
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 30, 2023 12:34:22 GMT -5
On that last point, not really. I can't think of one way in which we gave up anything positive in any sport that helped football get better (except perhaps Matt playing football instead of lax). What connection do you see?
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Post by DiMarz on Nov 30, 2023 12:38:31 GMT -5
More brain droppings. . . Some female students got honored during a first half time out for something to do with recycling. They stood and waved at half court while holding trash bags. I could not understand about 90 percent of what the PA announcer was saying so I have no ability to give more detail about the sustainability that got them honored. To whomever joked earlier about turning off the heat for sustainability, the only evidence I saw of that was some very cold 3 point shooting by a couple of Crusaders I think the speaker facing away from the bench is not working. I came into the Hart from the bench side and the sound was much better! Who knows somebody to contact about it? A few emails might do the job to get it fixed! Same problem opening night!
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revj
Sophomore
Posts: 21
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Post by revj on Nov 30, 2023 13:00:06 GMT -5
For those unaware, Caleb suffered a torn labrum in his left shoulder in practice his freshman year under BN, which resulted in him wearing a shoulder brace for 6-weeks. As a result, his shooting form has been affected due to the restricted range of motion. During this past summer, after noticing how his release was on his foul shot, we adjusted his stance in order to accommodate for the restricted range of motion. Believe me when I say, he’s never been a 50% FT shooter until that injury occurred. Just a little context
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 30, 2023 14:09:40 GMT -5
Thanks for the insight!
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Post by WCHC Sports on Nov 30, 2023 14:29:55 GMT -5
I'm not saying that Holy Cross administration did anything to the detriment of basketball in order to make the football program successful. I'm not giving them that much credit I'm just saying that it seems that we can't have both succeeding at the same time. Whether it's just bad dumb luck or something else, I cannot say.
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Post by lou on Nov 30, 2023 14:36:22 GMT -5
More brain droppings. . . Some female students got honored during a first half time out for something to do with recycling. They stood and waved at half court while holding trash bags. I could not understand about 90 percent of what the PA announcer was saying so I have no ability to give more detail about the sustainability that got them honored. To whomever joked earlier about turning off the heat for sustainability, the only evidence I saw of that was some very cold 3 point shooting by a couple of Crusaders I think the speaker facing away from the bench is not working. I came into the Hart from the bench side and the sound was much better! Who knows somebody to contact about it? A few emails might do the job to get it fixed! Same problem opening night! nasmith@holycross.edu
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 30, 2023 14:39:44 GMT -5
Really? We are losing in basketball because we are solid in football? Hopefully I am misinterpreting what you are saying. We are losing because: 1. Friggin' Pitino stole his buddy, Ralph, late in the proverbial day This one always bothers me a bit. Why do we blame Pitino? Ralph Willard is an adult and made his own decision. He didn't have to leave a job he was being paid handsomely to do at his alma mater. Ralph saw an opportunity to get one more shot at the "big time" and took it. Sure, none of this happens if Pitino doesn't come calling...but I wouldn't say Ralph was stolen from Holy Cross.
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 30, 2023 15:29:07 GMT -5
“ but I wouldn't say Ralph was stolen from Holy Cross”
It’s called “artistic lives.”😉😂
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Post by hc1996 on Nov 30, 2023 15:55:13 GMT -5
Really? We are losing in basketball because we are solid in football? Hopefully I am misinterpreting what you are saying. We are losing because: 1. Friggin' Pitino stole his buddy, Ralph, late in the proverbial day This one always bothers me a bit. Why do we blame Pitino? Ralph Willard is an adult and made his own decision. He didn't have to leave a job he was being paid handsomely to do at his alma mater. Ralph saw an opportunity to get one more shot at the "big time" and took it. Sure, none of this happens if Pitino doesn't come calling...but I wouldn't say Ralph was stolen from Holy Cross. Weren't there a few other reasons that lead to Willard's departure? I vaguely remember him making some comments about recruiting challenges/restrictions and the need for facilities upgrades, etc. I assume his complaints weren't addressed so he walked.
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Post by timholycross on Nov 30, 2023 18:26:31 GMT -5
This one always bothers me a bit. Why do we blame Pitino? Ralph Willard is an adult and made his own decision. He didn't have to leave a job he was being paid handsomely to do at his alma mater. Ralph saw an opportunity to get one more shot at the "big time" and took it. Sure, none of this happens if Pitino doesn't come calling...but I wouldn't say Ralph was stolen from Holy Cross. Weren't there a few other reasons that lead to Willard's departure? I vaguely remember him making some comments about recruiting challenges/restrictions and the need for facilities upgrades, etc. I assume his complaints weren't addressed so he walked. Just wish he didn't leave when he did (June, I'm sure of; because SK was hired on July 2), just like Bill C. Hiring process at that stage of the calendar year not conducive to finding the best candidate. And in both cases, HC didn't ! Better off with an interim. Funny thing is, Ralph alluded to his age w/regard to his decision, that he felt it was being used against him in recruiting. Believe he was 64 or 65 at the time. Since then, the college basketball world has become chuck full of coaches older than that.
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Post by longsuffering on Nov 30, 2023 19:11:27 GMT -5
More brain droppings. . . Some female students got honored during a first half time out for something to do with recycling. They stood and waved at half court while holding trash bags. I could not understand about 90 percent of what the PA announcer was saying so I have no ability to give more detail about the sustainability that got them honored. To whomever joked earlier about turning off the heat for sustainability, the only evidence I saw of that was some very cold 3 point shooting by a couple of Crusaders I think the speaker facing away from the bench is not working. I came into the Hart from the bench side and the sound was much better! Who knows somebody to contact about it? A few emails might do the job to get it fixed! Same problem opening night! I went to my first two games since just before the pandemic. I also couldn't understand the P.A. announcer well. In my case I wondered if it is age related reduced acuity in hearing. If it's the speakers, that would be a relief.
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Post by purplehaze on Nov 30, 2023 19:48:22 GMT -5
Black Bears also gave a good women’s team it appears - they’re being paid to play at Indiana tonight and lead 37-29 at the half - their star Anne Simon has scored 25 pts in the first 20 minutes
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Post by longsuffering on Nov 30, 2023 19:51:24 GMT -5
Losing at home isn't "sustainable" for a basketball program. "Look at what they did to my boy!..." Nobody is showing up because we're not winning in front of our fans. To be fair, the team hasn't discriminated over the last 15 years-- they're not really winning anywhere. We sold our basketball souls for our football program. We just stay getting trounced. As is almost always the case, football drives the conference affiliation. No different here. Willard showed HC can have a legit hoops program while in the PL just as Chesney has shown in football. I have faith DP can as well. Regarding "football drives the conference affiliation," all ten core PL members play basketball in the conference. Only five core members play football in the PL. It's hard to say football drove conference affiliation for B.U., American or Loyola. Perhaps not having to play football in their core conference helped drive Navy and Army toward the PL. For our two associate football members, I would say basketball drives their core conference affiliation in the Big East and A-10 because neither of those leagues offer football. I think you are correct about FBS Football, but it's harder for FCS football to drive conference affiliation as opposed to D-1 basketball which is the highest level college basketball compared to FCS being the second highest level college football.
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Post by lou on Nov 30, 2023 20:00:19 GMT -5
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Post by efg72 on Nov 30, 2023 20:18:55 GMT -5
As is almost always the case, football drives the conference affiliation. No different here. Willard showed HC can have a legit hoops program while in the PL just as Chesney has shown in football. I have faith DP can as well. Regarding "football drives the conference affiliation," all ten core PL members play basketball in the conference. Only five core members play football in the PL. It's hard to say football drove conference affiliation for B.U., American or Loyola. Perhaps not having to play football in their core conference helped drive Navy and Army toward the PL. For our two associate football members, I would say basketball drives their core conference affiliation in the Big East and A-10 because neither of those leagues offer football. I think you are correct about FBS Football, but it's harder for FCS football to drive conference affiliation as opposed to D-1 basketball which is the highest level college basketball compared to FCS being the second highest level college football. If we truly want both to succeed it is quite simple invest human and financial resources to address every issue that might be a barrier to championships once that is accomplished find a way to become a northeast power by having the right conference partners. It can easily be a version of the PL or it might be closer to the original Yankee Conference for football and some version of the ECAC North/Metro/South for hoops or something else that is an enhancement of the current PL
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Post by purplehaze on Nov 30, 2023 20:37:40 GMT -5
That women’s game between Indiana and Maine is being played in Bangor - 54 all with 5 mins left - I’ll post outcome on the women’s thread here
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Post by trimster on Dec 1, 2023 7:38:55 GMT -5
As is almost always the case, football drives the conference affiliation. No different here. Willard showed HC can have a legit hoops program while in the PL just as Chesney has shown in football. I have faith DP can as well. Regarding "football drives the conference affiliation," all ten core PL members play basketball in the conference. Only five core members play football in the PL. It's hard to say football drove conference affiliation for B.U., American or Loyola. Perhaps not having to play football in their core conference helped drive Navy and Army toward the PL. For our two associate football members, I would say basketball drives their core conference affiliation in the Big East and A-10 because neither of those leagues offer football. I think you are correct about FBS Football, but it's harder for FCS football to drive conference affiliation as opposed to D-1 basketball which is the highest level college basketball compared to FCS being the second highest level college football. Very good points. My take on things is HC hoops was deemphasized due to the need to find a home for the football program. (Kind of like collateral damage). It was obvious HC wasn’t going to compete with grid rivals like BC, Rutgers, Temple, etc as the 80’s began. We were a driving force behind the creation of a non-scholarship football conference and it was only a matter of time before the football conference became an all sport conference which resulted in the elimination of basketball schollies. Short of eliminating the program a la NYU, eliminating scholarships is the most drastic deemphasizing of a program possible. Maybe that is not what WCHC was intimating but that is what I thought he was doing. My guess is hoop scholarships would have been eliminated regardless of what happened to football.
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Post by timholycross on Dec 1, 2023 8:36:07 GMT -5
Regarding "football drives the conference affiliation," all ten core PL members play basketball in the conference. Only five core members play football in the PL. It's hard to say football drove conference affiliation for B.U., American or Loyola. Perhaps not having to play football in their core conference helped drive Navy and Army toward the PL. For our two associate football members, I would say basketball drives their core conference affiliation in the Big East and A-10 because neither of those leagues offer football. I think you are correct about FBS Football, but it's harder for FCS football to drive conference affiliation as opposed to D-1 basketball which is the highest level college basketball compared to FCS being the second highest level college football. Very good points. My take on things is HC hoops was deemphasized due to the need to find a home for the football program. (Kind of like collateral damage). It was obvious HC wasn’t going to compete with grid rivals like BC, Rutgers, Temple, etc as the 80’s began. We were a driving force behind the creation of a non-scholarship football conference and it was only a matter of time before the football conference became an all sport conference which resulted in the elimination of basketball schollies. Short of eliminating the program a la NYU, eliminating scholarships is the most drastic deemphasizing of a program possible. Maybe that is not what WCHC was intimating but that is what I thought he was doing. My guess is hoop scholarships would have been eliminated regardless of what happened to football. It was the desire/need of those in charge to associate Holy Cross with "like minded institutions" that pulled the programs in the direction they went in. Absent that issue, there were more sports-acceptable landing places for both sports.
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Post by hc1996 on Dec 1, 2023 8:42:12 GMT -5
Very good points. My take on things is HC hoops was deemphasized due to the need to find a home for the football program. (Kind of like collateral damage). It was obvious HC wasn’t going to compete with grid rivals like BC, Rutgers, Temple, etc as the 80’s began. We were a driving force behind the creation of a non-scholarship football conference and it was only a matter of time before the football conference became an all sport conference which resulted in the elimination of basketball schollies. Short of eliminating the program a la NYU, eliminating scholarships is the most drastic deemphasizing of a program possible. Maybe that is not what WCHC was intimating but that is what I thought he was doing. My guess is hoop scholarships would have been eliminated regardless of what happened to football. It was the desire/need of those in charge to associate Holy Cross with "like minded institutions" that pulled the programs in the direction they went in. Absent that issue, there were more sports-acceptable landing places for both sports. Sadly, those Brooks era experiments failed and now we are trying to find our way in an even more challenging environment with regards to conference affiliation, etc. Although I don't ever see HC as an FBS football program, I think the last few seasons have proven that if we were, we would be competitive. We would never compete with the likes of Penn State and those schools, but we clearly would be able to handle our own against the UConn's and BC's of the world. It brings me pleasure to now categorize BC with UConn. So, if we can be competitive at a higher level in football, we sure as heck can in basketball too. Ralph Willard proved that. If the HC administration wants to be competitive, they have that choice.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 1, 2023 11:02:13 GMT -5
As is almost always the case, football drives the conference affiliation. No different here. Willard showed HC can have a legit hoops program while in the PL just as Chesney has shown in football. I have faith DP can as well. Regarding "football drives the conference affiliation," all ten core PL members play basketball in the conference. Only five core members play football in the PL. It's hard to say football drove conference affiliation for B.U., American or Loyola. Perhaps not having to play football in their core conference helped drive Navy and Army toward the PL. For our two associate football members, I would say basketball drives their core conference affiliation in the Big East and A-10 because neither of those leagues offer football. I think you are correct about FBS Football, but it's harder for FCS football to drive conference affiliation as opposed to D-1 basketball which is the highest level college basketball compared to FCS being the second highest level college football. Football drives conference affiliation at the FBS level. Not quite as much at the mid-major level.
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Post by cmo on Dec 1, 2023 18:31:43 GMT -5
Also, what was peculiar about that situation was they didn't go to the monitor; yet at the end of the game when it was 1000% sure that the call would have no bearing on the outcome*, they took time to review an OOB call. * I hate to think that the NCAA is kowtowing to Las Vegas and all the crazy bets one can make on a game. Wonder what the O/U was; certainly Maine easily covered the spread.You might be onto something. Looking at the ESPN box score, total was 131.5. Game ended at 129. Refs now review everything for this reason.
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