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Post by efg72 on Mar 25, 2024 20:13:09 GMT -5
The PL may stink, but college basketball as a whole doesn't smell all that great to me these days. Agree the PL is a disaster, my words, and we need a better league for ALL sports At the same time college sports is at an all time low, but just ahead of the NBA and NFL
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 25, 2024 20:59:07 GMT -5
College basketball has become less user friendly due to the high number of portal transfers. Don't like it. My interest is ebbing. How can one cheer for a bunch of hired guns without any true tie to their school? They want to enter the portal. Then, go. You don't belong at Holy Cross. Get the hell out. Don't let the door hit you from the rear on your way out. I'm sick of the whole damn thing. It's supposed to be college not some damn NBA light. Hopefully you're not part of the college's welcoming committee to new students. Yikes. You mean a pitchfork isn't welcoming?😅 Every student athlete who enters the portal chooses to attend another college and that is their decision to make, not us grumpy old men's decision.
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 26, 2024 6:41:49 GMT -5
True, but we grumpy old men can still have opinions about the move, can't we? Without the opinions of old men, why have Crossports?
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Mar 26, 2024 7:57:08 GMT -5
Just seems like D1 hoops (and FBS/FCS football) are more or less pro leagues now. For hoops, it seems like it's a matter of whether or not you want to be in the major leagues, Triple A, Double A or Single A ball.....or drop down to the D2-D3 amateur level. Yuck
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 26, 2024 8:00:24 GMT -5
Just seems like D1 hoops (and FBS/FCS football) are more or less pro leagues now. For hoops, it seems like it's a matter of whether or not you want to be in the major leagues, Triple A, Double A or Single A ball.....or drop down to the D2-D3 amateur level. Yuck There's still a little bit of purity in FCS, IMO. Would it be the worst thing if basketball split into their own version of FBS and FCS?
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Post by hc1996 on Mar 26, 2024 8:12:54 GMT -5
Just seems like D1 hoops (and FBS/FCS football) are more or less pro leagues now. For hoops, it seems like it's a matter of whether or not you want to be in the major leagues, Triple A, Double A or Single A ball.....or drop down to the D2-D3 amateur level. Yuck There's still a little bit of purity in FCS, IMO. Would it be the worst thing if basketball split into their own version of FBS and FCS? I hope that happens sooner rather than later.
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Post by gks on Mar 26, 2024 8:14:00 GMT -5
Here's the thing about transfers.
Want to treat athletes like regular students? Well they can come and go as they please between schools. Should Johnny the math major not be allowed to change schools if he doesn't like the situation he's in?
Want athletes to stay their four years? First win. Then you have to make letters of intent a binding, exclusive contract for four years. Now I don't know labor laws from in-laws but this sounds like you'd be making them employees/professionals with four year, long-term deals.
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Post by hchoops on Mar 26, 2024 8:15:17 GMT -5
Just seems like D1 hoops (and FBS/FCS football) are more or less pro leagues now. For hoops, it seems like it's a matter of whether or not you want to be in the major leagues, Triple A, Double A or Single A ball.....or drop down to the D2-D3 amateur level. Yuck There's still a little bit of purity in FCS, IMO. Would it be the worst thing if basketball split into their own version of FBS and FCS? Yes The top sports’ month in the US is March due to the NCAA championship. Without the chance of Cinderellas from the non power conferences, the appeal of the tournament, including brackets, would be far less. if the Dance is changed like this, it would be the ultimate victory of the money only interests of the power conferences that have destroyed regional rivalries.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 26, 2024 8:26:39 GMT -5
There's still a little bit of purity in FCS, IMO. Would it be the worst thing if basketball split into their own version of FBS and FCS? Yes The top sports’ month in the US is March due to the NCAA championship. Without the chance of Cinderellas from the non power conferences, the appeal of the tournament, including brackets, would be far less. Ever since the tournament expanded from 64 to 68, the big boys have been looking to shove the mid-majors into a locker. They don't care about cinderella. They care about money. Money comes from getting into the tournament. And at the conference level, it's getting as many teams as possible into the tournament. The writing is on the wall and it has been for a while now. We won't see the NCAA Tournament (hell, we won't see an "NCAA" for that much longer, IMO) that features all Division I teams being eligible for it in the future.
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 26, 2024 8:39:15 GMT -5
Here's the thing about transfers. Want to treat athletes like regular students? Well they can come and go as they please between schools. Should Johnny the math major not be allowed to change schools if he doesn't like the situation he's in? Want athletes to stay their four years? First win. Then you have to make letters of intent a binding, exclusive contract for four years. Now I don't know labor laws from in-laws but this sounds like you'd be making them employees/professionals with four year, long-term deals. You seem to omit a big difference. Most students pay to attend a school and have the right to stop if they wish. Many athletes are being paid (whether or not it is a scholarship worth hundreds of thousands of dollars or NIL money that can be even more). Don't they owe something more than the average student?
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Post by gks on Mar 26, 2024 8:48:02 GMT -5
Here's the thing about transfers. Want to treat athletes like regular students? Well they can come and go as they please between schools. Should Johnny the math major not be allowed to change schools if he doesn't like the situation he's in? Want athletes to stay their four years? First win. Then you have to make letters of intent a binding, exclusive contract for four years. Now I don't know labor laws from in-laws but this sounds like you'd be making them employees/professionals with four year, long-term deals. You seem to omit a big difference. Most students pay to attend a school and have the right to stop if they wish. Many athletes are being paid (whether or not it is a scholarship worth hundreds of thousands of dollars or NIL money that can be even more). Don't they owe something more than the average student? So should a regular student on an full academic scholarship not be able to transfer from a school if he or she is unhappy?
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 26, 2024 8:51:52 GMT -5
There is nothing stopping them, is there?
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Post by WCHC Sports on Mar 26, 2024 8:52:43 GMT -5
You seem to omit a big difference. Most students pay to attend a school and have the right to stop if they wish. Many athletes are being paid (whether or not it is a scholarship worth hundreds of thousands of dollars or NIL money that can be even more). Don't they owe something more than the average student? So should a regular student on an full academic scholarship not be able to transfer from a school if he or she is unhappy? They should. But "unhappiness" is only a minor driver, if it is a driver at all, for the student athlete to transfer. They're mercenaries that are chasing the highest bidder, whether it is a better academic/athletic opportunity or not.
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Post by hcnj on Mar 29, 2024 2:33:21 GMT -5
Yes The top sports’ month in the US is March due to the NCAA championship. Without the chance of Cinderellas from the non power conferences, the appeal of the tournament, including brackets, would be far less. Ever since the tournament expanded from 64 to 68, the big boys have been looking to shove the mid-majors into a locker. They don't care about cinderella. They care about money. Money comes from getting into the tournament. And at the conference level, it's getting as many teams as possible into the tournament. The writing is on the wall and it has been for a while now. We won't see the NCAA Tournament (hell, we won't see an "NCAA" for that much longer, IMO) that features all Division I teams being eligible for it in the future. I agree with you about the 95% focus of NCAA is money and that the big school programs drive it. My comment about your suggestion of a big/small split is that I don't think the smaller schools would broadly support it. These schools can play in whatever conferences they want, a couple have AI's, travel concerns but all look forward to being a team to compete against the best in the tournament. It really takes the dream away from the schools that are fine playing as lower seeds. Bball generates relatively large revenues from March but big time football is an entire season of printing money for schools and conferences. The only integrity is anything self-imposed at any level in either sport. The collision of legal behaviors with the old scholarship model is the ruin of the model, as faulty as it's been. The problem is that the legality issue doesn't change at either level shown by the asinine Dartmouth vote. The NCAA is trying to pretend it's controlling the process whereas I believe it's simply seeing the inevitable and going along to make as much money as possible for as long as it can.
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Post by nextmanup on Mar 29, 2024 9:04:40 GMT -5
College sports is driven by football and lesser extent hoops. The landscape will not change and I believe we are headed to a world where NCAA doesn’t exist.
HC leadership needs to decide what they want. Do we want to be nationally relevant or not? If yes, then it’s obvious we cannot be relevant in football, so go all-in on hoops (like Gonzaga, Davidson, Villanova, Marquette etc). If no, then take the whole thing D3.
It’s on us to adapt. HC leadership needs to acknowledge our structural disadvantages (NIL, Admissions, Patriot League, inability to take 5th yr transfers) and fix them.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 29, 2024 9:22:01 GMT -5
College sports is driven by football and lesser extent hoops. The landscape will not change and I believe we are headed to a world where NCAA doesn’t exist. HC leadership needs to decide what they want. Do we want to be nationally relevant or not? If yes, then it’s obvious we cannot be relevant in football, so go all-in on hoops (like Gonzaga, Davidson, Villanova, Marquette etc). If no, then take the whole thing D3. It’s on us to adapt. HC leadership needs to acknowledge our structural disadvantages (NIL, Admissions, Patriot League, inability to take 5th yr transfers) and fix them. You seem to dismiss the five-peat in football that gave many of us a reason to keep living.🙂 Having one sport at Holy Cross be synonymous with excellence has incalculable benefit. Now we have multiple sports, FB, WBB, Men's hockey, Women's lacrosse all successful. Aren't HC athletics on the best roll in years?
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Post by WCHC Sports on Mar 29, 2024 9:29:58 GMT -5
I think you're missing nextmanup's inference that the Patriot League, and even HC football's success in the PL, does not make Holy Cross relevant "nationally." I'd argue that it's pretty much the case outside of the niche world of NCAA D1 AA/FCS fandom, and the northeast more-broadly. The national recognition is far and away of FBS programs. Holy Cross as an institution (studies and academic focus, available courses, undergrad-exclusive, size, geographical attendance demographics) does not match up to really any major FBS football school. That's just a fact.
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Post by nextmanup on Mar 29, 2024 11:39:45 GMT -5
I think you're missing nextmanup's inference that the Patriot League, and even HC football's success in the PL, does not make Holy Cross relevant "nationally." I'd argue that it's pretty much the case outside of the niche world of NCAA D1 AA/FCS fandom, and the northeast more-broadly. The national recognition is far and away of FBS programs. Holy Cross as an institution (studies and academic focus, available courses, undergrad-exclusive, size, geographical attendance demographics) does not match up to really any major FBS football school. That's just a fact. Exactly. In no ways were these comments meant to diminish FBs success.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 29, 2024 13:06:49 GMT -5
HC can't really compete in becoming nationally relevant these days but it's nice to see us becoming a little more successful in the level we play at.
Still we have good MBB and WBB coaches who have access to their respective Big Dances, so fully support all efforts to be as competitive we can be. Hockey is a lower profile sport than BB nationally, but that offers less competitive resistance for HC to be a national competitor.
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