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Post by Tom on Mar 8, 2024 9:42:56 GMT -5
I think the next step on the agenda is player retention
Coach Paulsen inherited 1 1scholarship players and so far has retained 9.5 (I'm counting Tse as 0.5 because I have no clue if he is or is not still on the team - there are signs pointing both ways) In 2024, it might be un reasonable to hope for 100 percent retention, but I think stability is needed for this program
By contrast Coach Paulsen's predecessor inherited 11 players of which 3 stayed with the program through graduation Brought in 12 freshmen of which 6 stayed with the program through his tenure Brought in 6 transfers of which 5 stayed with the program either to graduation or through the coach's tenure
In a low level league, upper classmen leadership is needed. I might accept one transfer out as a fact of life in 2024, if there are multiple defections, I am likely to use foul language.
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Post by Crosser on Mar 8, 2024 10:18:00 GMT -5
Will we be able to differentiate the defections from those who were “allowed” to leave?
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Post by classof83 on Mar 8, 2024 11:36:42 GMT -5
Will we be able to differentiate the defections from those who were “allowed” to leave? I can't help but think that the former HC players that have left before graduation either didn't really value an HC education or had inflated views of how good they were. Maybe that is more of a comment on today's generation - not sure - maybe that is being too critical. I can't say I have followed the careers that closely of players that left HC to play for other schools, but the only player that left(in the recent past) that I think saw his basketball profile get better after he left was Jacob Grandison. He bought into his role at Illinois and became a pretty big contributor for them. He also got to play against UNC at Cameron - that must have been a great experience. I was always curious how he ended up at Illinois.
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Post by efg72 on Mar 8, 2024 11:53:07 GMT -5
Will we be able to differentiate the defections from those who were “allowed” to leave? In the world of the portal nothing surprises me and so much is disappointing. From the current roster, we have five seniors that will not be returning. Of the remaining seven players, the likelihood of losing one or two players to the portal would seem reasonable for any program. But given none of us know anything it is not a good use of time to speculate or post names as possible departures. Time will tell, but with some luck the probability of departures and the reality of the same do not intersect.
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Post by Tom on Mar 8, 2024 13:01:34 GMT -5
Responding to a couple things without using the quote feature
If "allowed to leave" is the same as being given a push out the door, it has been reported here by a poster who had a conversation with a player who got pushed, this happened under the prior regime. Taking that report at face value, I would hope that no one is given a push. In terms of our ability to differentiate, I hope it would be none. That kind of dirty laundry should be kept behind closed doors
In terms losing one or two players to the portal, I will be unhappy with losing one, but accept that is the way it is in 2024. Losing two players would be 25% of non-seniors. That seems high to me and no sign that the instability of the program is behind us.
Disclaimer: If a senior chooses to take his degree and COVID eligibility someplace else to get a free year towards a Masters like Faw and Butler, I do not count that as losing a player
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 8, 2024 21:59:55 GMT -5
I think the next step on the agenda is player retention Coach Paulsen inherited 1 1scholarship players and so far has retained 9.5 (I'm counting Tse as 0.5 because I have no clue if he is or is not still on the team - there are signs pointing both ways) In 2024, it might be un reasonable to hope for 100 percent retention, but I think stability is needed for this program By contrast Coach Paulsen's predecessor inherited 11 players of which 3 stayed with the program through graduation Brought in 12 freshmen of which 6 stayed with the program through his tenure Brought in 6 transfers of which 6 stayed with the program either to graduation or through the coach's tenure In a low level league, upper classmen leadership is needed. I might accept one transfer out as a fact of life in 2024, if there are multiple defections, I am likely to use foul language. I thought Wilbar left mid-season.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 8, 2024 22:03:59 GMT -5
Nolan Dorsey is listed on the Cambell University roster as a senior but did not play this year. Mandatory sit out year after his second transfer?
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Post by Tom on Mar 8, 2024 22:29:08 GMT -5
I think the next step on the agenda is player retention Coach Paulsen inherited 1 1scholarship players and so far has retained 9.5 (I'm counting Tse as 0.5 because I have no clue if he is or is not still on the team - there are signs pointing both ways) In 2024, it might be un reasonable to hope for 100 percent retention, but I think stability is needed for this program By contrast Coach Paulsen's predecessor inherited 11 players of which 3 stayed with the program through graduation Brought in 12 freshmen of which 6 stayed with the program through his tenure Brought in 6 transfers of which 6 stayed with the program either to graduation or through the coach's tenure In a low level league, upper classmen leadership is needed. I might accept one transfer out as a fact of life in 2024, if there are multiple defections, I am likely to use foul language. I thought Wilbar left mid-season. typo on my part. Townesl, Gates, Dorsey, Octave, and Tse all either graduated or were in the program when Nelson left. WIlbar left. Nelson was 5 for 6 retaining his transfers.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 8, 2024 22:33:20 GMT -5
I thought Wilbar left mid-season. typo on my part. Townesl, Gates, Dorsey, Octave, and Tse all either graduated or were in the program when Nelson left. WIlbar left. Nelson was 5 for 6 retaining his transfers. Wilbarrr trotted back to the paddock.🙂
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Post by Tom on Mar 8, 2024 22:34:47 GMT -5
Nolan Dorsey is listed on the Cambell University roster as a senior but did not play this year. Mandatory sit out year after his second transfer? That is what I assumed. I thought that had been overturned, but maybe it's not effective yet
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Post by timholycross on Mar 9, 2024 0:52:59 GMT -5
Will we be able to differentiate the defections from those who were “allowed” to leave? In the world of the portal nothing surprises me and so much is disappointing. From the current roster, we have five seniors that will not be returning. Of the remaining seven players, the likelihood of losing one or two players to the portal would seem reasonable for any program. But given none of us know anything it is not a good use of time to speculate or post names as possible departures. Time will tell, but with some luck the probability of departures and the reality of the same do not intersect. You've got Louth gone for sure? I thought there was some doubt about that given he didn't get recognized on Senior Night.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 9, 2024 7:52:22 GMT -5
Tse wasn't part of senior day either as I recall. He has had one post grad year at Deerfield Academy, one redshirt year at Salt Lake Community College, two years at Houston Baptist and two years at Holy Cross. I would love him to have a chance to use his Covid year of eligibility at a D-3/2 graduate school and start for a year. But if he's burnt out on BB, that's understandable, too.
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Post by Tom on Mar 9, 2024 8:49:27 GMT -5
Tse wasn't part of senior day either as I recall. He has had one post grad year at Deerfield Academy, one redshirt year at Salt Lake Community College, two years at Houston Baptist and two years at Holy Cross. I would love him to have a chance to use his Covid year of eligibility at a D-3/2 graduate school and start for a year. But if he's burnt out on BB, that's understandable, too. Coulibaly was at senior day and did not participate. Although Tse was in the photo promoting senior day, he wasn't even in the building.
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Post by timholycross on Mar 9, 2024 9:49:37 GMT -5
Tse wasn't part of senior day either as I recall. He has had one post grad year at Deerfield Academy, one redshirt year at Salt Lake Community College, two years at Houston Baptist and two years at Holy Cross. I would love him to have a chance to use his Covid year of eligibility at a D-3/2 graduate school and start for a year. But if he's burnt out on BB, that's understandable, too. Coulibaly was at senior day and did not participate. Although Tse was in the photo promoting senior day, he wasn't even in the building. I wonder if Tse's on campus this semester given his disappearance. Could mean any number of things- withdrew, transferred, doing an internship. Unlike the other transfer that came in w/him, ".........burrrrrrrrrrrrrr", he always gave his best effort and I wish him well whatever he's doing. I also wish Jaden Kirkwood the best whatever he decides to do, prefer that he stay even though it doesn't look like playing time is in his future.
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Post by Tom on Mar 9, 2024 10:19:52 GMT -5
Coulibaly was at senior day and did not participate. Although Tse was in the photo promoting senior day, he wasn't even in the building. I wonder if Tse's on campus this semester given his disappearance. Could mean any number of things- withdrew, transferred, doing an internship. Unlike the other transfer that came in w/him, ".........burrrrrrrrrrrrrr", he always gave his best effort and I wish him well whatever he's doing. I also wish Jaden Kirkwood the best whatever he decides to do, prefer that he stay even though it doesn't look like playing time is in his future. Tse is a mystery to me. He played a game then disappeared from the bench. Then he showed up wearing sweats on the bench at B.C. He dressed and played a couple of games at the start of the conference schedule. Then disappeared again, He might have shown up in sweats at Hart since then, but I do not recall an instance. He was not in the building for senior day On the other hand. in the past, the school has been very quick to scrub players who leave the program from the website. Tse is still there. They even used his photo for the pre-game notes for senior day. Observations seem to lead to contradictory conclusions. In all fairness, it is not important to the school or program that I know every detail of what is going on with these kids Kirkwood is another story. Last year, he got into most games and while not playing a ton of minutes, he was like the 8th man in the rotation. Respectable for a freshmen. Didn't catch your eye by doing great things, but didn't hurt you while giving the starters a rest This year basically walk-on minutes. Agree: Hope he stays. Also hope no matter what choice he makes that it works out well for him
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Post by hc17 on Mar 11, 2024 8:19:45 GMT -5
To take the conversation in a slightly different direction, but I feel the program is truly in this cycle where we're overly dependent on younger players. This dependency does not result in PL success. Our recruits are coming in because they need development. I've always subscribed to the philosophy that playing time would be beneficial for our younger players & we'd bare the fruits our labor & patience when those younger players became upperclassmen. I'll be honest...I'm second guessing myself because time and time again our younger players are stalling out. Perhaps, we can blame our coaching staff, but are we throwing some of these kids into the fire too early? Of course there are players who have taken a step in their development, most notably this year, Caleb. I thought year one of Paulsen would have yielded different results because he inherited a handful of veterans, but it did not (in part due to injuries). Paulsen leaned on younger players & if I had to guess, next year will be more of the same. All this to say...I'd love for us to be active in the transfer portal & land 2 impactful players (ie. starters) to take the pressure off of some of these younger players/recruits. Colgate had the fortune of landing Ivanauskas a few years ago & they have gone strength to strength. Just a few thoughts to consider
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 11, 2024 8:34:32 GMT -5
To take the conversation in a slightly different direction, but I feel the program is truly in this cycle where we're overly dependent on younger players. This dependency does not result in PL success. Our recruits are coming in because they need development. I've always subscribed to the philosophy that playing time would be beneficial for our younger players & we'd bare the fruits our labor & patience when those younger players became upperclassmen. I'll be honest...I'm second guessing myself because time and time again our younger players are stalling out. Perhaps, we can blame our coaching staff, but are we throwing some of these kids into the fire too early? Of course there are players who have taken a step in their development, most notably this year, Caleb. I thought year one of Paulsen would have yielded different results because he inherited a handful of veterans, but it did not (in part due to injuries). Paulsen leaned on younger players & if I had to guess, next year will be more of the same. All this to say...I'd love for us to be active in the transfer portal & land 2 impactful players (ie. starters) to take the pressure off of some of these younger players/recruits. Colgate had the fortune of landing Ivanauskas a few years ago & they have gone strength to strength. Just a few thoughts to consider Langel realized if he was going to turn around Colgate, it wasn't going to be recruiting kids out of high school and having them for four years...at least at first. He used the transfer route before the portal made it trendy. Here are some of the guys he brought in year over year -- 2012-13 -- Murphy Burnatowski (Maine) 2013-14 -- Austin Tillotson (Monmouth), Ethan Jacobs (Ohio) 2015-16 -- Jordan Swopshire (Bradley), Tom Rivard (James Madison) 2018-19 -- Rapolas Ivanauskas (Northwestern) 2019-20 -- Nelly Cummings (Bowling Green) 2020-21 -- Oliver Lynch-Daniels (Houston Baptist) I'm sure I've missed others, which 137 can point out. A couple of these guys didn't pan out, but many of them did. Perhaps, most importantly, is that Langel has built a culture at Colgate where kids don't transfer out. In more recent years, he hasn't gone to the transfer route as much because he's been able to recruit some top kids out of high school (Smith, Richardson, Records, Woodward, etc.).
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Post by Tom on Mar 11, 2024 11:15:26 GMT -5
To take the conversation in a slightly different direction, but I feel the program is truly in this cycle where we're overly dependent on younger players. This dependency does not result in PL success. Our recruits are coming in because they need development. I've always subscribed to the philosophy that playing time would be beneficial for our younger players & we'd bare the fruits our labor & patience when those younger players became upperclassmen. I'll be honest...I'm second guessing myself because time and time again our younger players are stalling out. Perhaps, we can blame our coaching staff, but are we throwing some of these kids into the fire too early? Of course there are players who have taken a step in their development, most notably this year, Caleb. I thought year one of Paulsen would have yielded different results because he inherited a handful of veterans, but it did not (in part due to injuries). Paulsen leaned on younger players & if I had to guess, next year will be more of the same. All this to say...I'd love for us to be active in the transfer portal & land 2 impactful players (ie. starters) to take the pressure off of some of these younger players/recruits. Colgate had the fortune of landing Ivanauskas a few years ago & they have gone strength to strength. Just a few thoughts to consider Not that different a direction. I started this thread because I think the way to break the cycle of depending on younger players is to have them stay at the school. Paulsen inherited 6 upperclassmen. (Montgomery, Rabs, Coulibaly, Kenney, Octave, and Tse) Of those, two (Rabs and Coulibaly ) didn't have the experience you would hope for a senior because of a history of injury. Tse was injured basically all season. That really only leaves 3 upper classmen. One of those three was a transfer last year making it a little harder to be a team leader. Toss in a couple of returning sophs brings it to five, but that still means you have to depend on the freshmen. Strictly talking quantity and not quality, there cupboard was a little thin when Coach Paulsen came on board I understand the desire to land two impactful players. However, we know of 12 scholarships being used next year. Coulibaly's lack of participation in senior day makes some suspect he'll be back using the final scholarship. Bringing in players via transfer (impactful or not) means someone has to transfer out, and that won't help break the cycle
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 11, 2024 13:11:07 GMT -5
Build Back Better (thanks Hillary🙂) and do it the right way by recruiting four year players to play in the senior driven PL. That's what Ralph did except for Mike C.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Mar 11, 2024 13:56:30 GMT -5
Ralph Willard is not coming through that portal . . .
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 11, 2024 15:09:24 GMT -5
Build Back Better (thanks Hillary🙂) and do it the right way by recruiting four year players to play in the senior driven PL. That's what Ralph did except for Mike C. Likely don't win the league in 2001 if not for Josh Sankes. Recruiting as the only program with scholarships had its perks, too. Please, no politics.
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Post by timholycross on Mar 11, 2024 16:10:14 GMT -5
That wasn't Hilary anyway.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Mar 11, 2024 16:11:42 GMT -5
To take the conversation in a slightly different direction, but I feel the program is truly in this cycle where we're overly dependent on younger players. This dependency does not result in PL success. Our recruits are coming in because they need development. I've always subscribed to the philosophy that playing time would be beneficial for our younger players & we'd bare the fruits our labor & patience when those younger players became upperclassmen. I'll be honest...I'm second guessing myself because time and time again our younger players are stalling out. Perhaps, we can blame our coaching staff, but are we throwing some of these kids into the fire too early? Of course there are players who have taken a step in their development, most notably this year, Caleb. I thought year one of Paulsen would have yielded different results because he inherited a handful of veterans, but it did not (in part due to injuries). Paulsen leaned on younger players & if I had to guess, next year will be more of the same. All this to say...I'd love for us to be active in the transfer portal & land 2 impactful players (ie. starters) to take the pressure off of some of these younger players/recruits. Colgate had the fortune of landing Ivanauskas a few years ago & they have gone strength to strength. Just a few thoughts to consider Langel realized if he was going to turn around Colgate, it wasn't going to be recruiting kids out of high school and having them for four years...at least at first. He used the transfer route before the portal made it trendy. Here are some of the guys he brought in year over year -- 2012-13 -- Murphy Burnatowski (Maine) 2013-14 -- Austin Tillotson (Monmouth), Ethan Jacobs (Ohio) 2015-16 -- Jordan Swopshire (Bradley), Tom Rivard (James Madison) 2018-19 -- Rapolas Ivanauskas (Northwestern) 2019-20 -- Nelly Cummings (Bowling Green) 2020-21 -- Oliver Lynch-Daniels (Houston Baptist) I'm sure I've missed others, which 137 can point out. A couple of these guys didn't pan out, but many of them did. Perhaps, most importantly, is that Langel has built a culture at Colgate where kids don't transfer out. In more recent years, he hasn't gone to the transfer route as much because he's been able to recruit some top kids out of high school (Smith, Richardson, Records, Woodward, etc.). This is the key point here. Sure, today's CJ McCollum's are gone after they average 25 ppg as frosh but overall at the low major level what Colgate has done is the model. No different than what we had here in football.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 11, 2024 16:58:15 GMT -5
Build Back Better (thanks Hillary🙂) and do it the right way by recruiting four year players to play in the senior driven PL. That's what Ralph did except for Mike C. Likely don't win the league in 2001 if not for Josh Sankes. Recruiting as the only program with scholarships had its perks, too. Please, no politics. OK, I got the slogan and the politician mis-matched anyway. I do think the key to winning in the PL is both recruiting and development over four years.
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Post by Ignutz on Mar 11, 2024 20:03:28 GMT -5
typo on my part. Townesl, Gates, Dorsey, Octave, and Tse all either graduated or were in the program when Nelson left. WIlbar left. Nelson was 5 for 6 retaining his transfers. Wilbarrr trotted back to the paddock.🙂 (Looks like I’m the only who gets the reference!)
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